Libertarian Thread

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

The California Libertarian Party straw poll gave a predictable 1. Johnson 2. McAfee result, but with a surprise 3rd place: http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/04/presidential-straw-poll-at-ca-lp-convention-shows-johnson-as-winner-mcafee-in-second-place/

Who doesn't want a free pony?

[Lyin' Steve]

Honestly, if Sam Sloan is running, him. I wish Carl Person would run, though.

Well, yeah, Sloan announced his switch to the Libertarian race from the Democratic race at the CA LP convention a couple of days ago. I didn't think that support for him was a real thing, though. What do you see in Sloan?

Carl Person is an interesting guy and should have gotten into the LNC debate in 2012, but Johnson hoarded too many tokens. He's getting too old (currently 79).

Woah, what the hell, Sam Sloan's getting mention on Atlas?
I know Sam Sloan from the world of chess politics.  He absolutely drowned in corruption and controversy here, which I guess is why he's in microparty politics now.

[Leinad]

I can guarantee McAfee didn't murder anyone.  Belize's corrupt government wanted a $2 million donation bribe from McAfee and he refused, then the raided his property and shot his dog.  He, understandably, got the hell out of there.

Doesn't matter whether he did or not, if he wins the nomination and enough pigs fly to get him in contention to win, the only story related to McAfee the media would run would be about Belize.

His "penny plan" idea is a joke

Yeah, I'm not sure about that one. Does he really think cutting 1% a year is enough? Presumably he's thinking at least 1%, with some things being much more, but the way he messages it now it sounds far too moderate.

He also leans somewhat conservative on many of his issues

Well, personally I agree with him regarding abortion, although I hope that's the only "social issue" he leans conservative on.

As far as electability is concerned, leaning conservative would help him get disaffected conservatarian/tea party Cruz voters who find Trump too big-government. I doubt he would get many disaffected Bernie voters, however. Although I'm not sure how much the other two could, either.

he sounds like he reads basic libertarian talking points and regurgitates them to the audience.

Yeah, his messaging is a bit bland. This is something that should be worked on should he win the nomination, although he should work on it himself before the LNC debate.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

Sam is spending a lot of moneyz in his website, it almost looks like a Word document

[Enduro]

Why is Vermin Supreme a Libertarian? We already have enough to deal with having Darryl Perry in serious contention for the nomination.

[standwrand]

A lot of Rubio supporters seem to be switching to support Austin Petersen because of their obvious similarities

[Kingpoleon]

Wasn't the Penny Plan originally devised by Kasich and Tim Penny?

[ElectionsGuy]

Yeah, I'm not going to lie, one of my least favorite moments was Petersen's Penny Plan advocacy. It's just too terribly simplistic and doesn't do enough to cut spending.

[Kingpoleon]

Yeah, I'm not going to lie, one of my least favorite moments was Petersen's Penny Plan advocacy. It's just too terribly simplistic and doesn't do enough to cut spending.

Kasich and Penny wrote an actual budget for it. As two congressmen with small staff and team members, it was impressive. For Petersen to not have anything nearly as specific with a national campaign team and presumably a 20+ member staff is just sad.

[sparkey]

An interesting development in the race is the growing McAfee/Petersen friendship, and their coordinated attacks against Johnson. On McAfee's Facebook, he calls Johnson the "past" of the party and claims that "Gary must know that he cannot win," while at the same time calling Petersen the "future" of the party. Petersen, meanwhile, is posting attacks against Johnson ("Gary Johnson is immature") while writing out a detailed defense of McAfee regarding his Belize adventures: "I feel the need to defend my friend here. He was only accused, and everyone is innocent until proven guilty. He was accused by a corrupt government who was trying to extort him. I have quickly grown to like him, and even trust him a little."

An endorsement pact between Petersen and McAfee, whereby they promise to endorse one another should one drop out before the other during balloting at the LNC, could significantly increase both of their chances.

[Enduro]

An interesting development in the race is the growing McAfee/Petersen friendship, and their coordinated attacks against Johnson. On McAfee's Facebook, he calls Johnson the "past" of the party and claims that "Gary must know that he cannot win," while at the same time calling Petersen the "future" of the party. Petersen, meanwhile, is posting attacks against Johnson ("Gary Johnson is immature") while writing out a detailed defense of McAfee regarding his Belize adventures: "I feel the need to defend my friend here. He was only accused, and everyone is innocent until proven guilty. He was accused by a corrupt government who was trying to extort him. I have quickly grown to like him, and even trust him a little."

An endorsement pact between Petersen and McAfee, whereby they promise to endorse one another should one drop out before the other during balloting at the LNC, could significantly increase both of their chances.

This news is the first thing I've seen that could put Johnson's campaign at risk of losing the nomination. Thanks for sharing it with us.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

Why is Vermin Supreme a Libertarian? We already have enough to deal with having Darryl Perry in serious contention for the nomination.

He identifies as an anarchist, I think he just likes to run for any party

[SillyAmerican]

Libertarian Party Poll - Who won the debate?

Petersen - 45%
Johnson - 23%
McAfee - 19%
Other - 13%

Three way:

Petersen - 51.5%
Johnson - 26.5%
McAfee - 22.0%

I tend to agree. I was disappointing with this debate, even though its just for Stossel's show. All the candidates seemed to have dramatic up and down moments of the debate, Johnson especially is just awkward in his speaking and seems like he never rehearsed or cared. Petersen is the Marco Rubio of the libertarian party presentation wise, and the most libertarian-lite of them all ideologically. He's the candidate that probably doesn't have the best policies but the one that is the most polished who seems very pragmatic and reasonable. McAfee is somewhat weird with his questioning of Stossel, definitely the one that could be casted as 'out there' or whatever, but very polished on some answers with good confidence. I would vote for all three of these guys so I don't mind who gets nominated, what I really want though is for the libertarian party to become much more high-profile than it has been. Its really sad seeing good alternatives being shut out by the corporate media. Its quite sad that this qualifies as an official 'forum' for a political party, and that previous debates that look like they were filmed in a potato and get 88 views on Youtube. Things really need to change...

Well said. I'd vote for any of those 3 over Clinton and Trump.

Agreed. And agreed.

[Enduro]

Libertarian should be rooting for Donald Trump to secure the nomination, here's why.

1. Ted Cruz can't be trusted, even if he promises the libertarian platform in the Oval Office, he lies.
2. Donald Trump's independant run would ruin all the momentum we've been building.
3. All of our momentum going forward depends on Trump alienating republican voters, one could argue that Cruz would alienate Trump voters, but do we want them, and Trump's independant run would get those voters.

Also, I know that our momentum depends on Clinton alienating Sanders voters as well, but it won't give us the voters, money, and momentum that a third of the Republican Party could.

[sparkey]

Debate is back on: http://amthirdpartyreport.com/2016/04/01/libertarian-presidential-debate-streaming-live-on-fox-business-now/

[PPT Spiral]

That discussion on gun control has gotta hurt for Johnson.

[Kingpoleon]

Sam Sloan is the Gravel type, IIRC. That is, the left wing of the pragmatic Libertarians. Right?

[5280]

Johnson had an awkward closing statement, its like if he's hesitant to say something that he really wanted to.

[This account no longer in use.]

Sam Sloan is the Gravel type, IIRC. That is, the left wing of the pragmatic Libertarians. Right?

Not at all. And I quote from his website:

"The reason is Hillary is being pushed to the left by extreme left-wing opponents. I hope to push her back towards the middle. Also, she is not being supported by her own party leadership. One rarely or never hears any other leading Democrat speak in favor of Hillary, except for her own husband Bill. This is strange. It seems that they want her to fail."

Marc Allan Feldman is a bit of a strange type, in that his most important issue seems to be his wanting to take money out of politics. He could fit the bill.

[sparkey]

I thought that there was less to separate the candidates in the second round. McAfee probably did better the first round; Petersen kept chugging along with his soundbites as he does; Johnson probably did better the second round. Since I had McAfee > Petersen > Johnson for the first round, I guess that puts me at McAfee = Petersen = Johnson for the second round. And reminds me that all three of these guys would be easy to vote for in the general.

[Enduro]

Johnson really struggled this time.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Austin Petersen may be a LP candidate who could attract former Cruz supporters, but I believe he will alienate mainstream LP voters. Gary Johnson and to a lesser extent John McAfee have better name recognition and could appeal to more voters.

[ElectionsGuy]

I think Johnson did better this time and kind of redeemed himself a bit, but still had a few hesitant and akward answers which he needs to work on. Still, definitely better for him, no clear winner this time in my opinion. From watching these debates, I can now sort of classify these candidates: McAfee is your 'true libertarian' with deep philosophical thinking, Petersen is pretty ideological but also has a bit more of a conservative and constitutional bent to him, and Johnson is the most pragmatic, perhaps skeptical of purity while still being libertarian enough, of the three.

[Leinad]

Austin Petersen may be a LP candidate who could attract former Cruz supporters, but I believe he will alienate mainstream LP voters.

No, I don't think he would alienate too many Libertarians, but he might alienate potential Democrat/Bernie crossover or "mainstream" (i.e. "fiscally conservative and socially liberal" but not at all libertarian) crossover.

Libertarian should be rooting for Donald Trump to secure the nomination, here's why.

1. Ted Cruz can't be trusted, even if he promises the libertarian platform in the Oval Office, he lies.
2. Donald Trump's independant run would ruin all the momentum we've been building.
3. All of our momentum going forward depends on Trump alienating republican voters, one could argue that Cruz would alienate Trump voters, but do we want them, and Trump's independant run would get those voters.

I actually have come to agree with that, mostly due to #3, but #2 is also a great point. I think Cruz would be a bit better a president that Trump, and both would be better than Clinton--but due to the fact that the Republican Party seems, to me at least, incapable of uniting their bitterly divided factions to win, I'm not sure if the difference of a Trump presidency and a Cruz presidency really matters.

An interesting development in the race is the growing McAfee/Petersen friendship, and their coordinated attacks against Johnson. On McAfee's Facebook, he calls Johnson the "past" of the party and claims that "Gary must know that he cannot win," while at the same time calling Petersen the "future" of the party. Petersen, meanwhile, is posting attacks against Johnson ("Gary Johnson is immature") while writing out a detailed defense of McAfee regarding his Belize adventures: "I feel the need to defend my friend here. He was only accused, and everyone is innocent until proven guilty. He was accused by a corrupt government who was trying to extort him. I have quickly grown to like him, and even trust him a little."

An endorsement pact between Petersen and McAfee, whereby they promise to endorse one another should one drop out before the other during balloting at the LNC, could significantly increase both of their chances.

That's fascinating, and yeah, it could hurt Johnson's chances in Orlando. But I still think Johnson has a large base of pragmatic support that won't go away (due to the fact that he, you know, was Governor of an actual state for 8 years longer than everyone else combined) while some people probably view Petersen as too conservative, or too young, while some people as well probably are wary of McAfee's past (I'm not in that camp personally, but I'm scared it might hurt his electability).

Hey, Sparkey, what's your current prediction of how the delegates at the convention will vote? While it may not make Independent Political Report like the last one did, it would still be interesting to see what you think.

[Classic Conservative]

If Trump wins the nomination, I will support Petersen, Feldman or Perry if they win the nomination. Other than that, I don't know what I'd do.