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Poll
Question: Who do you support for the Libertarian nomination?
#1
Gary Johnson
#2
John McAfee
#3
Austin Peterson
#4
Darryl Perry
#5
Marc Allen Feldman
#6
Not a libertarian
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Author Topic: Libertarian Thread  (Read 7639 times)
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cxs018
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« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2016, 01:09:04 PM »

The closest alternative to Ted Cruz on the Libertarian ticket is Austin Petersen, watch the debate. He's principled like Cruz but has speaking skills of Marco Rubio. I could vote for him if the election came down to Trump vs Clinton.

That's not a good thing.
Speaking skills and debating skills are two very different things.

True, but almost all Libertarian candidates lack debating skills. The two best debaters on the Libertarian side are an eccentric millionaire who may have murdered somebody, and a former Atlas poster. In the same field as a two-term governor. Think about that for a while.
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sparkey
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« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2016, 02:24:08 PM »

For DWPerry and Marc Allan Feldman fans disappointed at their exclusion, they apparently went off and had their own debate on April 1 in Washington, DC. It will be posted to the PublicSquare.net YouTube channel sometime pretty soon (it's not there quite yet): https://www.youtube.com/user/PublicSquarenet/videos

DWPerry's giant disembodied head previously debated a Green Party candidate on that same channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXVyK30Zbn4

There was also a debate here in California yesterday, although Perry didn't make it. It was two rounds and featured 4 brand new candidates in the first round, before they were eliminated, and the second round ended up being McAfee, Johnson, Petersen, and Feldman. The livestream was awful and kept cutting out, so I only caught bits and pieces, but I actually thought Feldman did pretty well.
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5280
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« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2016, 02:59:43 PM »
« Edited: April 03, 2016, 03:01:23 PM by 5280 »

For DWPerry and Marc Allan Feldman fans disappointed at their exclusion, they apparently went off and had their own debate on April 1 in Washington, DC. It will be posted to the PublicSquare.net YouTube channel sometime pretty soon (it's not there quite yet): https://www.youtube.com/user/PublicSquarenet/videos

DWPerry's giant disembodied head previously debated a Green Party candidate on that same channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXVyK30Zbn4

There was also a debate here in California yesterday, although Perry didn't make it. It was two rounds and featured 4 brand new candidates in the first round, before they were eliminated, and the second round ended up being McAfee, Johnson, Petersen, and Feldman. The livestream was awful and kept cutting out, so I only caught bits and pieces, but I actually thought Feldman did pretty well.
Very awkward. Perry debating through a computer monitor, is this the Matrix now?
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2016, 03:05:01 PM »

DWPerry's giant disembodied head previously debated a Green Party candidate on that same channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXVyK30Zbn4

Dang - I was hoping for this:



But all I got was wrinkled sheets.
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Enduro
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« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2016, 06:00:05 PM »

The last poll I posted was actually from a few weeks ago; A Libertarian Future is actually conducting it's first poll after the debate now.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2016, 09:55:49 PM »

Libertarian Party Poll - Who won the debate?

Petersen - 45%
Johnson - 23%
McAfee - 19%
Other - 13%

Three way:

Petersen - 51.5%
Johnson - 26.5%
McAfee - 22.0%

I tend to agree. I was disappointing with this debate, even though its just for Stossel's show. All the candidates seemed to have dramatic up and down moments of the debate, Johnson especially is just awkward in his speaking and seems like he never rehearsed or cared. Petersen is the Marco Rubio of the libertarian party presentation wise, and the most libertarian-lite of them all ideologically. He's the candidate that probably doesn't have the best policies but the one that is the most polished who seems very pragmatic and reasonable. McAfee is somewhat weird with his questioning of Stossel, definitely the one that could be casted as 'out there' or whatever, but very polished on some answers with good confidence. I would vote for all three of these guys so I don't mind who gets nominated, what I really want though is for the libertarian party to become much more high-profile than it has been. Its really sad seeing good alternatives being shut out by the corporate media. Its quite sad that this qualifies as an official 'forum' for a political party, and that previous debates that look like they were filmed in a potato and get 88 views on Youtube. Things really need to change...
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Enduro
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« Reply #56 on: April 03, 2016, 10:12:46 PM »

Libertarian Party Poll - Who won the debate?

Petersen - 45%
Johnson - 23%
McAfee - 19%
Other - 13%

Three way:

Petersen - 51.5%
Johnson - 26.5%
McAfee - 22.0%

I tend to agree. I was disappointing with this debate, even though its just for Stossel's show. All the candidates seemed to have dramatic up and down moments of the debate, Johnson especially is just awkward in his speaking and seems like he never rehearsed or cared. Petersen is the Marco Rubio of the libertarian party presentation wise, and the most libertarian-lite of them all ideologically. He's the candidate that probably doesn't have the best policies but the one that is the most polished who seems very pragmatic and reasonable. McAfee is somewhat weird with his questioning of Stossel, definitely the one that could be casted as 'out there' or whatever, but very polished on some answers with good confidence. I would vote for all three of these guys so I don't mind who gets nominated, what I really want though is for the libertarian party to become much more high-profile than it has been. Its really sad seeing good alternatives being shut out by the corporate media. Its quite sad that this qualifies as an official 'forum' for a political party, and that previous debates that look like they were filmed in a potato and get 88 views on Youtube. Things really need to change...

Well said.
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Leinad
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« Reply #57 on: April 03, 2016, 11:03:12 PM »

I agree with your analysis, ElectionsGuy, but that poll is silly. No way Johnson did better than McAfee. Also...how does "other" work in that regard? Do those people think Stossel won?

Basically, I'd vote for any of these guys over any of the 5 major-partiers easily. But the party needs someone who has the best chance to get to 15% in the polls (not that it's all that likely, but I think Johnson got to 11% in a Monmouth poll vs. Clinton and Trump). As far as credentials, Johnson's by far the most serious. But he's also by far the most awkward--both as a speaker and on some matters of policy. Eliminate prior history and McAfee's by far the best--but I doubt he could escape the ghost of Belize in the General. Maybe I'm cynical--I'd love a President McAfee should the stars align in just the absurd and unlikely way to let that happen, and I think he has the best chance of wiping the floor with Trump and Clinton should he make a debate, but I just don't think he could escape his questionable past. Petersen looks 12, and sounds like he's trying to sell me a product instead of an ideology.

I'm still undecided on who to support, so it's a good thing my support doesn't matter! I like all three of them, and I could see all three of them being an effective salesman of the ideology this fall, in different ways, and successfully poaching different types of swing voters. But I'm honestly not sure who would do the best in the general. I still think it's Johnson on resume alone, but I'm less and less sure.

I can think of one person who would have a good shot at 15%, and checks the boxes on resume, charisma, and knowledge of the ideology. But he's 80-years-old and retired from politics.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #58 on: April 03, 2016, 11:08:55 PM »

https://www.lp.org/poll/who-won-the-libertarian-presidential-debate-on-stossel

^^ The poll is actually from the libertarian party itself. Other is just what I combined as all the other silly options on there, that's why I did the three way. As to why Johnson did better than McAfee, maybe party insider bias? Don't know. I do think this is the worst I've seen of Johnson speech wise.

It would be be magnificent to have Ron Paul run as a libertarian, one can dream.
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Dabeav
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« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2016, 11:57:53 PM »

A Libertarian Future poll:

Gary Johnson 51%
Austin Peterson 34%
John McAfee 10%

Sad. Petersen is the worst of the three.
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Dabeav
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« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2016, 12:01:39 AM »
« Edited: April 04, 2016, 12:03:45 AM by Dabeav »


True, but almost all Libertarian candidates lack debating skills. The two best debaters on the Libertarian side are an eccentric millionaire who may have murdered somebody, and a former Atlas poster. In the same field as a two-term governor. Think about that for a while.

I can guarantee McAfee didn't murder anyone.  Belize's corrupt government wanted a $2 million donation bribe from McAfee and he refused, then the raided his property and shot his dog.  He, understandably, got the hell out of there.
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Dabeav
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« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2016, 12:07:54 AM »

https://www.lp.org/poll/who-won-the-libertarian-presidential-debate-on-stossel

^^ The poll is actually from the libertarian party itself. Other is just what I combined as all the other silly options on there, that's why I did the three way. As to why Johnson did better than McAfee, maybe party insider bias? Don't know. I do think this is the worst I've seen of Johnson speech wise.

It would be be magnificent to have Ron Paul run as a libertarian, one can dream.

The national LP is busy pumping Johnson 24/7 on Facebook. I don't see how Petersen won anything though, his answers were just a lot of rah-rah like listening to people like Rubio.  McAfee gave thoughtful, insightful and complete answers to most questions. 

As for Ron Paul, charge your flux capacitor and set the time circuits to 1988, Marty.
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5280
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« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2016, 01:24:29 AM »

Libertarian Party Poll - Who won the debate?

Petersen - 45%
Johnson - 23%
McAfee - 19%
Other - 13%

Three way:

Petersen - 51.5%
Johnson - 26.5%
McAfee - 22.0%

I tend to agree. I was disappointing with this debate, even though its just for Stossel's show. All the candidates seemed to have dramatic up and down moments of the debate, Johnson especially is just awkward in his speaking and seems like he never rehearsed or cared. Petersen is the Marco Rubio of the libertarian party presentation wise, and the most libertarian-lite of them all ideologically. He's the candidate that probably doesn't have the best policies but the one that is the most polished who seems very pragmatic and reasonable. McAfee is somewhat weird with his questioning of Stossel, definitely the one that could be casted as 'out there' or whatever, but very polished on some answers with good confidence. I would vote for all three of these guys so I don't mind who gets nominated, what I really want though is for the libertarian party to become much more high-profile than it has been. Its really sad seeing good alternatives being shut out by the corporate media. Its quite sad that this qualifies as an official 'forum' for a political party, and that previous debates that look like they were filmed in a potato and get 88 views on Youtube. Things really need to change...
Well said. I'd vote for any of those 3 over Clinton and Trump.
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#TheShadowyAbyss
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« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2016, 01:26:42 AM »

The debate made me really excited about both McAfee and Petersen, I'm actually contemplating going to the LNC (it's not that far from me) and seeing if I could be a delegate, I'd be fine with any of the big three, but Johnson is just not a great debater.
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5280
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« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2016, 01:29:35 AM »

Fox News, MSNBC, CNN need to start vetting for national Libertarian debates on TV. It's the only way more people get exposed to an alternative 3rd party to the GOP and DEMs.
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#TheShadowyAbyss
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« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2016, 01:30:40 AM »

Fox News, MSNBC, CNN need to start vetting for national Libertarian debates on TV. It's the only way more people get exposed to an alternative 3rd party to the GOP and DEMs.

Especially when the GOP and DEM's have control over the CPD's.
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« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2016, 01:39:04 AM »

My favorite line of the night, now that I think about it, was still from McAfee: "as Libertarians, do we not keep our commitments?".
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Enduro
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« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2016, 01:32:01 PM »

Alright, I'm going to add a poll to this.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2016, 01:41:06 PM »

McAfee did absolutely fantastic. I love the guy. He's wonderfully charismatic, he has great ideas, and he would be a wonderful candidate I could vote for in very good conscience.

Gary is weak. Low-energy!

I loathe Petersen. Self-important boner.

Why do you loathe Petersen?
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« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2016, 02:33:14 PM »

McAfee did absolutely fantastic. I love the guy. He's wonderfully charismatic, he has great ideas, and he would be a wonderful candidate I could vote for in very good conscience.

Gary is weak. Low-energy!

I loathe Petersen. Self-important boner.

Why do you loathe Petersen?

His views are cut-and-dry and simplistic. It's possible to be both principled and nuanced. Petersen doesn't appear to realize that. He oversimplifies the concept of "libertarian". His "penny plan" idea is a joke; the problem isn't that spending in general is too high, the problem is that spending on certain things is too high. Instead of across-the-board black or white cuts, we need to recognize there are shades of grey here and that it may be more important to cut Department A than Department B. He has zero charisma, he's robotic in an era of idealization of authenticity. He wouldn't fare well at all in a debate (relevant given this is one of the best cycles for a possible Libertarian in the national debates), his views would turn voters away from the Libertarian party. It was said earlier he seems like he's spent too much time playing on usenet and reading fringe books -- these are not marketable qualities for a candidate.
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#TheShadowyAbyss
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« Reply #70 on: April 04, 2016, 02:36:43 PM »

McAfee did absolutely fantastic. I love the guy. He's wonderfully charismatic, he has great ideas, and he would be a wonderful candidate I could vote for in very good conscience.

Gary is weak. Low-energy!

I loathe Petersen. Self-important boner.

Why do you loathe Petersen?

His views are cut-and-dry and simplistic. It's possible to be both principled and nuanced. Petersen doesn't appear to realize that. He oversimplifies the concept of "libertarian". His "penny plan" idea is a joke; the problem isn't that spending in general is too high, the problem is that spending on certain things is too high. Instead of across-the-board black or white cuts, we need to recognize there are shades of grey here and that it may be more important to cut Department A than Department B. He has zero charisma, he's robotic in an era of idealization of authenticity. He wouldn't fare well at all in a debate (relevant given this is one of the best cycles for a possible Libertarian in the national debates), his views would turn voters away from the Libertarian party. It was said earlier he seems like he's spent too much time playing on usenet and reading fringe books -- these are not marketable qualities for a candidate.

He also leans somewhat conservative on many of his issues, he sounds like he reads basic libertarian talking points and regurgitates them to the audience.

McAfee and Johnson seem more honest, but Johnson isn't a good speaker.
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sparkey
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« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2016, 07:00:54 PM »

The California Libertarian Party straw poll gave a predictable 1. Johnson 2. McAfee result, but with a surprise 3rd place: http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/04/presidential-straw-poll-at-ca-lp-convention-shows-johnson-as-winner-mcafee-in-second-place/
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #72 on: April 04, 2016, 07:36:04 PM »

Fox News, MSNBC, CNN need to start vetting for national Libertarian debates on TV. It's the only way more people get exposed to an alternative 3rd party to the GOP and DEMs.

The problem is that will never happen. Big media is funded by special interests of the two major parties that want to lock out any alternative opposition.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #73 on: April 04, 2016, 07:37:57 PM »

Honestly, if Sam Sloan is running, him. I wish Carl Person would run, though.
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sparkey
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« Reply #74 on: April 04, 2016, 07:55:12 PM »

Honestly, if Sam Sloan is running, him. I wish Carl Person would run, though.

Well, yeah, Sloan announced his switch to the Libertarian race from the Democratic race at the CA LP convention a couple of days ago. I didn't think that support for him was a real thing, though. What do you see in Sloan?

Carl Person is an interesting guy and should have gotten into the LNC debate in 2012, but Johnson hoarded too many tokens. He's getting too old (currently 79).
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