Opinion of Bernie's Income Tax Plan?

[Smash255]

The entire VOX chart is completely and utterly bogus.

[Smash255]

The jist of Bernie's plan

1.  Federal Tax Rates for those under $250,000 will be the same as current, for those above it, they will see an increase

2.  There would no longer be employer based health insurance so those who currently have it will have a higher taxable income as their costs for health insurance would no longer be tax deductable since they no longer exist.  Those who currently have Health Insurance through exchanges or other non-employer based programs would not see a difference in taxable income due to the fact those Health Insurance costs aren't tax deductable.

3. A 2.2% Medicare for All Tax on taxable income

4.  Capital Gains rates will be the same as current for incomes below $250,000, for incomes above $250,000 they will be at the marginal tax rate

5.  Employers will have a 6.2% payroll tax to fund the Medicare for All.   This would replace the current Employer Contribution Toward Health Insurance

6.  No more Health Insurance Premium's

[Smash255]

I think it was the Upshot who had an app where you enter in your income and it tells you how your tax burden changes under each candidate.

Under Hillary's plan, I'd pay $200 more. No big deal at all. Under Bernie's plan, I'd pay over $14,000 more (?!) WTF, Bernie?!?! I'm nowhere close to being rich. I don't have an extra $14,000 laying around!

I would still vote for Bernie if he were somehow the nominee because I'm still loyal a Democrat above all and Trump is horrendous, but talk about an enthusiasm zapper...


Edit: It was Vox, not Upshot:  http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/3/25/11293258/tax-plan-calculator-2016

Vox's numbers are complete and utter bs.

[Smash255]

I think it was the Upshot who had an app where you enter in your income and it tells you how your tax burden changes under each candidate.

Under Hillary's plan, I'd pay $200 more. No big deal at all. Under Bernie's plan, I'd pay over $14,000 more (?!) WTF, Bernie?!?! I'm nowhere close to being rich. I don't have an extra $14,000 laying around!

I would still vote for Bernie if he were somehow the nominee because I'm still loyal a Democrat above all and Trump is horrendous, but talk about an enthusiasm zapper...


Edit: It was Vox, not Upshot:  http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/3/25/11293258/tax-plan-calculator-2016

Vox's numbers are complete and utter bs.

OK I guess? If you have some supporting evidence, I'll take a look, but I'm going to believe a legitimate national news source over a Sanders supporter on a message board, no offense of course.

Are you including "what I'd save in health insurance costs" in your figure?

For starters the Vox Calculator included the employer portion of the healthcare tax as a cost to you.   While doing so they are also not calulcating the employer savings from no longer paying for a health care plan, and not taking into consideration the savings from you not paying for healthcare premiums anymore.


http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/03/30/ezra-klein-and-terrible-horrible-no-good-tax-calculator

[Smash255]

There's this weird misconception (especially amongst leftist) that a vast majority of rich people inherited their wealth and grew up in rich families.

That's far from the truth. 70% of billionaires didn't inherit anything and a majority of the Forbes 400 didn't come from rich families.

This discussion is pretty tangential to the "what marginal income tax rates are optimal" question, but this is... not even close to true:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Fair enough, but tax increases on billionaires is far from what we're talking about.  If we're just talking about tax increases on those at that level, I'm OK with that.  What we were talking about is $10K+ increases in total tax bills for people just breaking the six figures.  That seems to be a different story entirely.

No we aren't talking about that, a website which is including an employer based tax (without taking into consideration employer based deduction in costs) is talking about that, but it is nowhhere near reality.

[Smash255]

There's this weird misconception (especially amongst leftist) that a vast majority of rich people inherited their wealth and grew up in rich families.

That's far from the truth. 70% of billionaires didn't inherit anything and a majority of the Forbes 400 didn't come from rich families.

This discussion is pretty tangential to the "what marginal income tax rates are optimal" question, but this is... not even close to true:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Fair enough, but tax increases on billionaires is far from what we're talking about.  If we're just talking about tax increases on those at that level, I'm OK with that.  What we were talking about is $10K+ increases in total tax bills for people just breaking the six figures.  That seems to be a different story entirely.

No we aren't talking about that, a website which is including an employer based tax (without taking into consideration employer based deduction in costs) is talking about that, but it is nowhhere near reality.

So I presume your employer would still give you the same amount of income with many, many more mandatory benefits? Makes sense! Guess we'll double the minimum wage too just to ensure it.

If we are going to have an honest debate on it, it is one thing.  Calling it a tax on the employee as in the Vox article and calulcator is simply false.  Not to mention the employer will no longer be laying out $$ for their employees health insurance.  So the 6.2% increase in the tax on the employer isn't actually anywhere near a 6.2% increase in out of pocket expenses for the employer.

[Smash255]

Let's forget about wealthier taxpayers. The main thing I don't like about Bernie's tax plan is that he wants to substantially raise taxes on the middle class. That's not a good idea and it will severely hurt him in the GE if he were to win the nomination.

Bernie's tax pllan is a 2.2% increase in taxes on the middle class, plus for those with employer based health coverage, there health insurance premium is no longer tax deductible (since it doesn't exist anymore), so there overall taxable income will be a bit higher.  The flip side is there is no more health insurance Premium.