Bernie wins Clark county NV convention vote

[dax00]

Based on the fact that the Nevada Delegate Selection Plan calls the Feb 20 vote non-binding, and Section 7.a. therein, I'm led to believe that the May 14 vote is independent of today's vote, as today's vote was independent of the Feb 20 vote.

[Minnesota Mike]

http://lasvegassun.com/news/2016/apr/02/sanders-wins-most-delegates-at-clark-county-conven/

Because of the way delegate selection works in Nevada, 23 delegates to the Democratic National Committee are selected on the district level, based proportionally on the Feb. 20 caucus results. Only five pledged party leaders and elected official delegates and seven at-large delegates will be selected proportionally based on party preference of the state convention.

That's not what Green Papers says or how it worked in 2008.

The rules were changed to specifically prevent what happened in 2008 from occurring again.

Nope. It's pretty clear if you read the document rather than assuming that Ralston has any idea what he's talking about.

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http://nvdems.3cdn.net/efafb4788ed845d0d3_08m6i2zsp.pdf

I agree the rules are as clear as mud but the key section is at the bottom of page 8, top of page 9.

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Determining step is the the key phrase.  The district delegates are determind by the Feb 20 precinct caucuses

The word determining probably shouldn't be there. Right before that there's this. The second and third tiers clearly matter.

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FWIW Clinton campaign claims they still have a majority of delegates in Nevada.

https://twitter.com/brianefallon/status/716445269861093377

[Gass3268]

They need to get rid of caucuses and all this nonsense, but I do think it's funny that when Cruz does this it's great organization and strategy but when others do it (Clinton and Sanders) it's the destruction of democracy.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Based on the fact that the Nevada Delegate Selection Plan calls the Feb 20 vote non-binding, and Section 7.a. therein, I'm led to believe that the May 14 vote is independent of today's vote, as today's vote was independent of the Feb 20 vote.

That's what I've been saying. It's a 3 tier process. This was the 2nd tier. The 3rd tier is the one who actually choose the national convention delegates. So while it's looking good for Bernie, things aren't set in stone until the state convention.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

FWIW Clinton campaign claims they still have a majority of delegates in Nevada.

https://twitter.com/brianefallon/status/716445269861093377

They can believe that they have a majority of the delegates of 80% white Nevada, but for those of us living in the real world....

[IceSpear]

They need to get rid of caucuses and all this nonsense, but I do think it's funny that when Cruz does this it's great organization and strategy but when others do it (Clinton and Sanders) it's the destruction of democracy.

The GOP has already given up all pretense of caring about democracy.

[Minnesota Mike]

Based on the fact that the Nevada Delegate Selection Plan calls the Feb 20 vote non-binding, and Section 7.a. therein, I'm led to believe that the May 14 vote is independent of today's vote, as today's vote was independent of the Feb 20 vote.

That's what I've been saying. It's a 3 tier process. This was the 2nd tier. The 3rd tier is the one who actually choose the national convention delegates. So while it's looking good for Bernie, things aren't set in stone until the state convention.

I respectfully disagree and will leave it at that.

BTW question for the Nevadans who attended today's Clark county convention, did they break delegates  down by congressional district or just county wide?

[Joe Republic]

Based on the fact that the Nevada Delegate Selection Plan calls the Feb 20 vote non-binding, and Section 7.a. therein, I'm led to believe that the May 14 vote is independent of today's vote, as today's vote was independent of the Feb 20 vote.

That's what I've been saying. It's a 3 tier process. This was the 2nd tier. The 3rd tier is the one who actually choose the national convention delegates. So while it's looking good for Bernie, things aren't set in stone until the state convention.

So you're ok with Bernie potentially coming away with more national delegates, even though more voters showed up to vote for Hillary in the first stage?

(Don't sidetrack this by bringing up superdelegate skewing in other states; I agree they need to go.)

[Joe Republic]

BTW question for the Nevadans who attended today's Clark county convention, did they break delegates  down by congressional district or just county wide?

The entire convention hall remained as one group of county-wide delegates.

[Gass3268]

They need to get rid of caucuses and all this nonsense, but I do think it's funny that when Cruz does this it's great organization and strategy but when others do it (Clinton and Sanders) it's the destruction of democracy.

The GOP has already given up all pretense of caring about democracy.

Oh I know, but there has been so many people in the mainstream media saying that Cruz doing exactly the same thing is excellent organization and strategy.

[Minnesota Mike]

BTW question for the Nevadans who attended today's Clark county convention, did they break delegates  down by congressional district or just county wide?

The entire convention hall remained as one group of county-wide delegates.

Hard to see how they can change the District delegate allocation if they did not vote by district.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Based on the fact that the Nevada Delegate Selection Plan calls the Feb 20 vote non-binding, and Section 7.a. therein, I'm led to believe that the May 14 vote is independent of today's vote, as today's vote was independent of the Feb 20 vote.

That's what I've been saying. It's a 3 tier process. This was the 2nd tier. The 3rd tier is the one who actually choose the national convention delegates. So while it's looking good for Bernie, things aren't set in stone until the state convention.

So you're ok with Bernie potentially coming away with more national delegates, even though more voters showed up to vote for Hillary in the first stage?

(Don't sidetrack this by bringing up superdelegate skewing in other states; I agree they need to go.)

The caucus system does have some issues, but  I don't remember people caring about this when the same exact thing happened 8 years ago.

[dax00]

Hard to see how they can change the District delegate allocation if they did not vote by district.

They won't have to change the district-delegate allocation until May 14th.

So you're ok with Bernie potentially coming away with more national delegates, even though more voters showed up to vote for Hillary in the first stage?

The first-round caucuses are like voting for Representatives to the House. They represent the will of the people, however imperfectly. If a Congressman is absent (like Marco Rubio apparently), then he does not get a voice. The Hillary-supporting county delegates should have shown up.

[politicallefty]

They need to get rid of caucuses and all this nonsense, but I do think it's funny that when Cruz does this it's great organization and strategy but when others do it (Clinton and Sanders) it's the destruction of democracy.

Watching the other side decay into anarchy is one thing. I expect more from our side. After all, we're the party that has a proportional 15% delegate threshold in every state and territory. At least, despite our differences in candidate choice, we can agree that caucuses are a terrible idea. It's bad enough they're unrepresentative, but it's compounded by these idiotic delegate conventions. I'm not aware of any such procedures in primary states. If a state doesn't want to move into the era of democracy and use a primary, it should be denied participation in the primary process. Last time I checked, I do believe that every state (or at least virtually all) conducts primaries for other elected offices. If they cannot at least add a line for the Presidency in their normal process, they really have no business participating. On the whole, I really do expect better from the Democratic Party than what Republicans are doing.

[Joe Republic]

So you're ok with Bernie potentially coming away with more national delegates, even though more voters showed up to vote for Hillary in the first stage?

The first-round caucuses are like voting for Representatives to the House. They represent the will of the people, however imperfectly. If a Congressman is absent (like Marco Rubio apparently), then he does not get a voice. The Hillary-supporting county delegates should have shown up.

No, don't try and argue that this system is fair or makes any sense.

[Smash255]

BTW question for the Nevadans who attended today's Clark county convention, did they break delegates  down by congressional district or just county wide?

The entire convention hall remained as one group of county-wide delegates.

Hard to see how they can change the District delegate allocation if they did not vote by district.

Might be something we won't know until the State Convention, though with those figures for Clark it does appear likely that Sanders gains a delegate and Clinton loses 1 in at least CD-4 considering that she barely made it 4-2 instead of 3-3 on Caucus night.

[Minnesota Mike]

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They won't have to change the district-delegate allocation until May 14th.
[/quote]

But since Clark county elected delegates to the next stage without regard to congressional district how would they determine the proper delegates voting in each congressional district?  

[Ebsy]

What bothers me the most is that likely a lot of hardworking Latino people were disenfranchised so that some white college kids can continue their Bernie fantasy for a little longer.

[Minnesota Mike]

BTW question for the Nevadans who attended today's Clark county convention, did they break delegates  down by congressional district or just county wide?

The entire convention hall remained as one group of county-wide delegates.

Hard to see how they can change the District delegate allocation if they did not vote by district.

Might be something we won't know until the State Convention, though with those figures for Clark it does appear likely that Sanders gains a delegate and Clinton loses 1 in at least CD-4 considering that she barely made it 4-2 instead of 3-3 on Caucus night.

Again, most reports are that the congressional district delegates were set by the results of the Feb precinct caucuses, only the at large delegates can change at the state convention. Unless of course the media are all wrong (not impossible). 

[dax00]

But since Clark county elected delegates to the next stage without regard to congressional district how would they determine the proper delegates voting in each congressional district?  

I assume viability for district-delegate is determined by citizenship, and they would be apportioned by viability thusly.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

BTW question for the Nevadans who attended today's Clark county convention, did they break delegates  down by congressional district or just county wide?

The entire convention hall remained as one group of county-wide delegates.

Hard to see how they can change the District delegate allocation if they did not vote by district.

Might be something we won't know until the State Convention, though with those figures for Clark it does appear likely that Sanders gains a delegate and Clinton loses 1 in at least CD-4 considering that she barely made it 4-2 instead of 3-3 on Caucus night.

There's a good chance Bernie also wins CD1, which gives him a 19-16 delegate split.

Again, most reports are that the congressional district delegates were set by the results of the Feb precinct caucuses, only the at large delegates can change at the state convention. Unless of course the media are all wrong (not impossible).  

By most reports, you mean where Ralston failed to read the full context of what he was quoting?

[Minnesota Mike]

What bothers me the most is that likely a lot of hardworking Latino people were disenfranchised so that some white college kids can continue their Bernie fantasy for a little longer.

Exactly. Those maids and kitchen staff at the Strip Hotels who barely got off for an hour in February  were not fully represented today. You should not have to commit several weekends to have your vote count.  Not Sanders or Clinton's fault but the system has to change.

[Minnesota Mike]

BTW question for the Nevadans who attended today's Clark county convention, did they break delegates  down by congressional district or just county wide?

The entire convention hall remained as one group of county-wide delegates.

Hard to see how they can change the District delegate allocation if they did not vote by district.

Might be something we won't know until the State Convention, though with those figures for Clark it does appear likely that Sanders gains a delegate and Clinton loses 1 in at least CD-4 considering that she barely made it 4-2 instead of 3-3 on Caucus night.

There's a good chance Bernie also wins CD1, which gives him a 19-16 delegate split.

Again, most reports are that the congressional district delegates were set by the results of the Feb precinct caucuses, only the at large delegates can change at the state convention. Unless of course the media are all wrong (not impossible).  

By most reports, you mean where Ralston failed to read the full context of what he was quoting?

Not Ralston.

http://lasvegassun.com/news/2016/apr/02/sanders-wins-most-delegates-at-clark-county-conven/

[Smash255]

BTW question for the Nevadans who attended today's Clark county convention, did they break delegates  down by congressional district or just county wide?

The entire convention hall remained as one group of county-wide delegates.

Hard to see how they can change the District delegate allocation if they did not vote by district.

Might be something we won't know until the State Convention, though with those figures for Clark it does appear likely that Sanders gains a delegate and Clinton loses 1 in at least CD-4 considering that she barely made it 4-2 instead of 3-3 on Caucus night.

Again, most reports are that the congressional district delegates were set by the results of the Feb precinct caucuses, only the at large delegates can change at the state convention. Unless of course the media are all wrong (not impossible). 

As per Green Papers it appears that at the Caucus, delegates were elected to the County Convention.   The delegates at the County Convention elect delegates to the State Convention which then in turn select the national Convention delegates on the CD level and statewide level.  Of course Green Papers could be wrong as not surprising, but there is plenty of conflicting information floating around.

[Smash255]

What bothers me the most is that likely a lot of hardworking Latino people were disenfranchised so that some white college kids can continue their Bernie fantasy for a little longer.

Exactly. Those maids and kitchen staff at the Strip Hotels who barely got off for an hour in February  were not fully represented today. You should not have to commit several weekends to have your vote count.  Not Sanders or Clinton's fault but the system has to change.

Not saying I disagree with that, but not everyone at those Caucus sites were kitcken staff, maids, etc.  In addition to voting for a candidate they also voted for delegates to represent them at the County Convention.  They shouldn't have voted for someone who couldn't make it to the later stages, and someone who couldn't have made it to the later stages should not have agreed to become a delegate to represent them at the later stages.