Legal description of Hudson's city boundaries

[Torie]

I pity a surveyor having to work with this one!

http://ecode360.com/13594835

Interestingly, the alleys in Hudson are not subject to being surveyed. Nobody knows where they are supposed to be. All one knows is that they are 20 feet wide. So where the pavement is, rules. Surveyors just try to find some middle line for a block of the alley, using some metric, and take 10 feet from that on either side.

[jimrtex]

I pity a surveyor having to work with this one!

http://ecode360.com/13594835

Interesting, the alleys in Hudson are not subject to being surveyed. Nobody knows where they are supposed to be. All one knows is that they are 20 feet wide. So where the pavement is, rules. Surveyors just try to find some middle line for a block of the alley, using some metric, and take 10 feet from that on either side.

There are three different measurement systems used in the charter. Originally, the city of Hudson consisted of what is now Hudson, Greenport, and the part of Stockport south of what is now known as Stockport Creek. The proprietors must have had good lobbyists, because Hudson was always a city, and not a town with a concentrated population center.

Stockport was created first chopping off a bit of the northern portion of the city. Then Greenport was created. While a map would give the impression that Hudson was created from Greenport, it was actually the reverse process, with Greenport detached from Hudson. Most of the boundaries of Hudson are from the description of the boundaries of Greenport, which took over the old boundaries of Hudson on the north, east, and south, and most of those on the west. The only intact portion of the original city boundaries are on the west, where they are coincident with the county boundary. Note that the northwest corner of the city is described as being coincident with the Greene County line.

The next time the Hudson city charter was recodified, it included the boundary between Greenport and Hudson. This description uses chains and links. A chain is 66 feet (10 chains to a furlong, 8 furlongs to a mile; a square chain is 1/10 of an acre). A link is 1/100 of a chain, so an early form of decimal measurement. Directions used compass bearings (based on the 1820 magnetic declination).

The boundary starts at the southwest corner and proceeds to "the center of the old road passing through the farm formerly owned by Charles Evarts", which you will recognize as Ten Broeck Lane, which even in 1820 was an old road, and Charles Evarts no longer owned the farm.

The boundary follows the old road north to Columbia Turnpike at the south end of Paul Avenue, "thence, as the magnetic needle stood in the year 1895 at right angles from center of said old road south twenty-nine degrees twenty-five minutes east (S 29° 25' E) 16 1/2 feet".

So here we have switched to distance measures feet (and half feet), and bearing uses the 1895 magnetic declination. This part describes the boot heel around Cedar Park Cemetery which was annexed from Greenport.

Note that were it not for this annexation and the next, the ward boundary following Columbia Turnpike to the city limits would be quite clear.

"to the center of Paul Avenue; thence northerly along the center of Paul Avenue to the northerly side of the Union Turnpike; thence easterly along the northerly side of the Union Turnpike to the lands of the Knickerbocker Portland Cement Company; thence in a northerly course having a left-hand deflection of ninety-seven degrees forty-five minutes (97° 45')"

This is the beginning of the second annexation which includes the two tomahawks on the eastern city limits including the area between Union Turnpike, Graham Ave, and Fairview Ave, and the east part of the Boulevards. It kind of looks like two separate areas, but it is only one (the intersection of Graham and Fairview is outside the old city limits.

Note that Fairview is formerly Farmer's Turnpike, and that the city limit is on the western side of Fairview. This possibly has an effect on your ward descriptions.

The first part of the description along Paul Avenue and Union Turnpike is interesting because it does not include distances or bearings.

Then it switches to distance and deflection:

"thence easterly along the northerly side of the Union Turnpike to the lands of the Knickerbocker Portland Cement Company; thence in a northerly course having a left-hand deflection of ninety-seven degrees forty-five minutes (97° 45'), measured from the direction of the preceding course, 362 1/10 feet to an iron pin"

So we are going (north)easterly along Union Turnpike and make a sharp left turn (7 degrees more than a right-angle) which is the portion along Graham Avenue. At the point the description starts using distances in feet (and 1/10 of feet) and deflection.

The boundary continue across on Graham Avenue, and then makes a right turn on to Fairview Ave (Farmer's Turnpike) and proceeds northward with a couple of small bearing changes to the left. It then makes a left turn for 700 feet (just past Oakwood Boulevard) this returns to the original (post Greenport) city limit.

"measured from the direction of the preceding course, 700 feet; thence, as the magnetic needle stood in the year 1820 A.D., north eleven degrees and fifty minutes east (N 11° 50' E) 44 chains to a white oak tree standing one chain and 55 links from the northeasterly corner of the farm lately owned by Jonas White, and nine links westerly from the fence along the westerly side of the old road leading from Hudson to the print works;"

At this point it switches back to the old description using bearings based on the 1820 magnetic declination and using chains and links.

The old road (in 1820) leading from Hudson to the print works was Harry Howard. The print works were in Stockport (but at one time in Hudson) along Claverack Creek. They were for printing cloth. The Samuel Slater described them, though based on correspondence, rather than direct connection. Most printing was blue (from indigo) but the Hudson print works also could do "mad colors". I was disappointed to discover that mad is a reddish color from madder plant, and Hudson was not printing paisley prints in the early 19th century.

The white oak tree is in the middle of a baseball field at the high school. Grounders have been know to take an errant hop when they hit the stump.

"thence southerly along the middle of the Hudson River to the point of intersection of said middle line with the prolongation of the first course mentioned in the description, thence to the place of beginning."

Apparently, the  main channel of the Hudson is considered to be east of the Middle Ground?

Now the interesting part.

The Census Bureau did not follow the boundary in the city charter. If you look at the 1940 census map (which is based on a map from the Department of Public Works) there is a notch where the Cedar Park annexation began. You are coming north on Ten Broek Lane, and then the city limits go southward before turning to east. creating a triangular notch.

The census bureau cuts that triangle off. There is a property in that triangle, and they pay taxes to Greenport, not Hudson. But the census bureau included them in Hudson, and I believe that it accounts for the two persons in Census Tract 13, Block 4015.

You need to correct your map, and reduce the quota to 1680.2 and remove two persons from Ward 3.

[muon2]

I'm not sure about NY law, but if the Census made an error, Hudson may have to use that error. I IL the population of a city is what the Census says it is. If a city finds that the count is in error then there is a process to appeal and correct the error. Once the correction is certified to the state, then the city can claim that new population.

[Torie]

It's not as if some slight population error makes a wit of difference in any event for purposes of this exercise. And yes, the appropriate course is to follow what the census did slavishly.

[jimrtex]

I'm not sure about NY law, but if the Census made an error, Hudson may have to use that error. I IL the population of a city is what the Census says it is. If a city finds that the count is in error then there is a process to appeal and correct the error. Once the correction is certified to the state, then the city can claim that new population.

It violates equal protection to include persons living outside the corporate limits of Hudson when apportioning the Common Council.

Hudson already estimates the population of census blocks that are split by ward boundaries.
Census Tract 13, Block 4015 is split by a ward boundary.

[Torie]

I'm not sure about NY law, but if the Census made an error, Hudson may have to use that error. I IL the population of a city is what the Census says it is. If a city finds that the count is in error then there is a process to appeal and correct the error. Once the correction is certified to the state, then the city can claim that new population.

It violates equal protection to include persons living outside the corporate limits of Hudson when apportioning the Common Council.

Hudson already estimates the population of census blocks that are split by ward boundaries.
Census Tract 13, Block 4015 is split by a ward boundary.

Have we forgotten the 10% fudge factor? Sure, one needs a policy reason to diverge from perfect equality, but a good faith effort based on official government data, even if wrong, is good enough.

[jimrtex]

I'm not sure about NY law, but if the Census made an error, Hudson may have to use that error. I IL the population of a city is what the Census says it is. If a city finds that the count is in error then there is a process to appeal and correct the error. Once the correction is certified to the state, then the city can claim that new population.

It violates equal protection to include persons living outside the corporate limits of Hudson when apportioning the Common Council.

Hudson already estimates the population of census blocks that are split by ward boundaries.
Census Tract 13, Block 4015 is split by a ward boundary.

Have we forgotten the 10% fudge factor? Sure, one needs a policy reason to diverge from perfect equality, but a good faith effort based on official government data, even if wrong, is good enough.

Shouldn't your map match your legal description?

Could you check the voter rolls for Greenport and find out if they have anyone on Paul Ave?

Now that you know that the census data is in error, can it be considered to be acting in good faith to use it?

[Torie]

I'm not sure about NY law, but if the Census made an error, Hudson may have to use that error. I IL the population of a city is what the Census says it is. If a city finds that the count is in error then there is a process to appeal and correct the error. Once the correction is certified to the state, then the city can claim that new population.

It violates equal protection to include persons living outside the corporate limits of Hudson when apportioning the Common Council.

Hudson already estimates the population of census blocks that are split by ward boundaries.
Census Tract 13, Block 4015 is split by a ward boundary.

Have we forgotten the 10% fudge factor? Sure, one needs a policy reason to diverge from perfect equality, but a good faith effort based on official government data, even if wrong, is good enough.

Shouldn't your map match your legal description?

Could you check the voter rolls for Greenport and find out if they have anyone on Paul Ave?

Now that you know that the census data is in error, can it be considered to be acting in good faith to use it?

Can you draw where you think the map is wrong. Is it part of the Columbia triangle or what specifically? In looking at the addresses included in ward 3 on the BOE documents, it lists Paul Ave, the odd numbers between 1-121 inclusive. That seems to match the map.

[jimrtex]

I'm not sure about NY law, but if the Census made an error, Hudson may have to use that error. I IL the population of a city is what the Census says it is. If a city finds that the count is in error then there is a process to appeal and correct the error. Once the correction is certified to the state, then the city can claim that new population.

It violates equal protection to include persons living outside the corporate limits of Hudson when apportioning the Common Council.

Hudson already estimates the population of census blocks that are split by ward boundaries.
Census Tract 13, Block 4015 is split by a ward boundary.

Have we forgotten the 10% fudge factor? Sure, one needs a policy reason to diverge from perfect equality, but a good faith effort based on official government data, even if wrong, is good enough.

Shouldn't your map match your legal description?

Could you check the voter rolls for Greenport and find out if they have anyone on Paul Ave?

Now that you know that the census data is in error, can it be considered to be acting in good faith to use it?

Can you draw where you think the map is wrong. Is it part of the Columbia triangle or what specifically? In looking at the addresses included in ward 3 on the BOE documents, it lists Paul Ave, the odd numbers between 1-121 inclusive. That seems to match the map.

The 1891 map shows the boundaries prior to the annexations. This is the same as the boundaries were after Greenport was detached,



The boundary came up Ten Broeck lane to the east of Hudson Cemetery then along Paul Avenue between Columbia Turnpike and Union Turnpike. At that time Columbia Street only ran from Public Square (Park Place and Diamond Street to the junction of Columbia Turnpike and Union Turnpike). That is, "Columbia Street" was the connector between the street grid and Columbia Turnpike.

At this time, there would have been no question about the ward boundaries.

There were two annexations. The first was of Cedar Park Cemetery, which forms the bootheel at the southeast corner of the city. It started from Ten Broeck Lane, and then went around the cemetery CCW and returned to the old city limits at Columbia Turnpike and Paul Avenue. This may have contributed to the confusion about the Columbia Triangle because the city limits are along Columbia Turnpike (you have a similar problem with your ward boundary on Fairview Ave).

The second annexation was of residential areas, beginning northeast of Union Turnpike and southwest of Graham and east of Farmer's Turnpike (Fairview). It also included areas west of Fairview, including the eastern end of the Boulevards (Glenwood, Oakwood, Parkwood) at the area shown as the Fairgrounds. The Boulevards are partially within the original (post-Greenport) boundaries and partially without. Where the city limits return to the northward course just north of Oakwood is the original city limits. While it kind of looks like two annexations, it was one (Graham and Fairview) is outside the original city limits.

The 1891 map shows Farmer's Turnpike ending at the railroad tracks. This is wrong, it continued at least as far as Union Turnpike. The extension of Fairview south of present Columbia Street, but then Union Turnpike to Columbia Turnpike may have been added later.

The 1873 maps shows it clearer (the 5th Ward was created in 1885).





The 1940 census map based on a map by the Department of Public Works shows the notch.

[jimrtex]

Historical Documents

The charter of the City of Hudson was granted by the state legislature using ordinary legislation. To amend the charter, the legislature would pass a bill and a governor would sign it. It would appear in the session laws of New York state. Every couple of decades the whole of the charter would be collected into a single codified whole (this may be one reason New York has so few cities). Around 1915, they started putting all the special legislation for cities in a separate section (not general session laws). It may have even been possible for cities to initiate the change, subject to legislative approval. After municipal home rule was granted in the mid-20th century, the charter in effect was patriated to the city. After a change is made, the city is required to file the changes with the state.

1823: The first page has the city limits. Major Abraham's Creek is Stockport Creek, so the boundaries were Stockport Creek, Claverack Creek, Livingston Manor, and the Hudson River.

Page 11 in  the document, Page 6 in the PDF have the original ward boundaries established in 1815. The city was sliced from north to south lengthwise. Within the built-up area, 3rd Street was used.

1855: This has the city limits after the detachment of Greenport.

They start out just like the modern description, with the two long segments along the southern boundary, and then have 5 segments up Ten Broeck Lane ("the old road passing through the farm formerly owned by Charles Evarts"). This gets you to the north side of Union Turnpike (modern Columbia Street and Paul Avenue). There is then a long stretch 86 chains = 5676 feet (just over a mile) to the white oak tree at the northeast corner of the city.

The annexations were inserted in the eastern boundary.

This also includes the boundaries of the the four wards. It is really clear that the ward boundary runs out Columbia Turnpike.

1895: This is incomplete, but it does have the five wards (IIRC the 5th was split off in 1888).

[muon2]

I'm not sure about NY law, but if the Census made an error, Hudson may have to use that error. I IL the population of a city is what the Census says it is. If a city finds that the count is in error then there is a process to appeal and correct the error. Once the correction is certified to the state, then the city can claim that new population.

It violates equal protection to include persons living outside the corporate limits of Hudson when apportioning the Common Council.

Hudson already estimates the population of census blocks that are split by ward boundaries.
Census Tract 13, Block 4015 is split by a ward boundary.

Have we forgotten the 10% fudge factor? Sure, one needs a policy reason to diverge from perfect equality, but a good faith effort based on official government data, even if wrong, is good enough.

Shouldn't your map match your legal description?

Could you check the voter rolls for Greenport and find out if they have anyone on Paul Ave?

Now that you know that the census data is in error, can it be considered to be acting in good faith to use it?

Yes, if that is what what state law requires. There's a legal process to correct the error and it is probably not lawful to claim a different population until that process is completed.

[jimrtex]

I'm not sure about NY law, but if the Census made an error, Hudson may have to use that error. I IL the population of a city is what the Census says it is. If a city finds that the count is in error then there is a process to appeal and correct the error. Once the correction is certified to the state, then the city can claim that new population.

It violates equal protection to include persons living outside the corporate limits of Hudson when apportioning the Common Council.

Hudson already estimates the population of census blocks that are split by ward boundaries.
Census Tract 13, Block 4015 is split by a ward boundary.

Have we forgotten the 10% fudge factor? Sure, one needs a policy reason to diverge from perfect equality, but a good faith effort based on official government data, even if wrong, is good enough.

Shouldn't your map match your legal description?

Could you check the voter rolls for Greenport and find out if they have anyone on Paul Ave?

Now that you know that the census data is in error, can it be considered to be acting in good faith to use it?

Yes, if that is what what state law requires. There's a legal process to correct the error and it is probably not lawful to claim a different population until that process is completed.

New York law does not require use of the US Census.

There is a federal administrative process to get the census bureau to adjust its population counts.

There is a very poor mismatch between Ohio township boundaries and census blocks. Ohio estimates the population of cities and townships used in its redistricting.

There is no reason for Torie to disregard the actual city limits in his map of the wards which purports to represent the legal description.

[Torie]

I still not clear exactly where the map is in error.

[jimrtex]

I still not clear exactly where the map is in error.

Did you look at the census map? Do you have the original - it is larger than can be posted on the atlas.

How difficult would it be to track down the 1897 Session Laws, particularly Chapter 133. Or perhaps the bill SB 736? Surely they would have a copy in Albany, but I don't know where else.

The city purchased the Cedar Park Cemetery in 1895 (in his 1895 state of the city message, the mayor had suggested that it did not make philosophical sense for the city to be operating a burying ground or an opera house, but since they were, they should continue to do so). After the city bought the land they were being assessed property taxes by Greenport. So they applied to the legislature to annex the land to the city of Hudson (in 1897).

There is what purports to be a copy of the 1897 bill in the minutes of the Common Council, but it has one obvious error, and doesn't fully match the description in the city charter. See minutes for March 23, 1897; page 45 of 1897 minutes; PDF page 168 of the 1895-1903 minutes Hudson historical documents

The description in that bill just describes the annexed area, and runs clockwise from Columbia Turnpike and Paul Avenue and returning to that starting point, with the last northerly leg, being along Ten Broeck/Paul Avenue and within the current city limits.

The description of the city limits in the charter runs counter-clockwise, and is inserted into the original description. Since it runs in the opposite direction, the bearings are reversed (S49°20'E in the bill is
N49°20'W in the charter).

The problem is that while most of the distances are the same, about three are different by 500 feet, which makes the southward extension (in the charter) greater.

If you are driving south on Paul Avenue/Ten Broeck Lane from Columbia Turnpike, just as the road bears west, you will encounter a substantial two-story brick building, which I think may be (or was the mortuary). It is conceivable that their is (or was) an apartment for the mortician/night attendant.

As you continue, there will be a white clapboard farm house to the east (in summer it might be difficult to see because of trees, but you should be able to see it now).

I think that is the area outside the city limits.

As you go further south there will be a couple of ranch style houses to the east, but those are clearly in Greenport.

Some other tidbits from the 1895-1897 minutes. Charles Whitbeck was an alderman. William S Hallenbeck was the city clerk.

Some resolutions were the acceptance by the city of Clinton Street. The council passed a resolution requiring that residents along North 6th Street lay a sidewalk (at least two planks wide).

The light bill one year was $14,000 and it was suggested that if a electricity plant was built for $12,000 that it would pay for itself in three years. There was also a controversy about a lamp on Promenade Hill. It was noted that it was November, and noone ever went there, and it would be better to move the light to between 2nd and 3rd on Allen Street, which had the leafiest trees in the city.

[jimrtex]

Here is the complete description of the city boundaries. I will express all directions in degrees azimuth (measured clockwise from North). I am using 5.27°W as the magnetic declination for 1820, and 9.82°W for 1895.

The boundaries of the City shall be as follows: beginning at a point, as the magnetic needle stood in the year 1820 A.D., bearing north thirty-three degrees and twenty-five minutes west (N 33° 25' W) from a buoy standing at the southerly point of the flats in the Hudson River, which buoy bears south seventy-seven degrees and five minutes west (S 77° 5' W) 40 chains and 80 links from the southwesterly corner of Mr. Goodwin's dock in the City of Hudson, and north twenty-eight degrees and ten minutes west (N 28° 10' W) 29 chains from Black Rock, on the most northerly point of Mount Merino;

This is locating the starting point relative to a buoy south of the Middle Ground (or the shoal south of the Middle Ground). IIRC, passage of the ferry to Athens depended on the tides and the height of the river. If it was low, a much slower and circuitous route was required. The buoy was about 0.51 miles  WSW from Mr.Goodwin's dock (in South Bay), and about 0.36 miles NWbyN from Black Rock on Mount Merino.

thence from said buoy south thirty-three degrees and twenty-five minutes east (S 33° 25' E) 58 chains to a willow tree standing in the fence; thence south seventy degrees and ten minutes east (S 70° 10' E) 96 chains to the center of the old road passing through the farm formerly owned by Charles Evarts;

This is the southern boundary of Hudson:

141.31° 3828 feet (roughly southeast)
104.56° 6336 feet (east by south)

The old road is Ten Broeck Lane.

thence along the center of said old road north sixty-three degrees and twenty minutes east (N 63° 20' E) six chains and 60 links; thence north forty-four degrees and twenty minutes east (N 44° 20' E) 10 chains and 45 links; thence north fifty-five degrees and fifty minutes east (N 55° 50' E) six chains; thence north thirty-three degrees and fifty minutes east (N 33° 50' E) one chain; thence, as the magnetic needle stood in the year 1895 at right angles from center of said old road south twenty-nine degrees twenty-five minutes east (S 29° 25' E) 16 1/2 feet; thence south twenty-three degrees twenty minutes west (S 23° 20' W) 264 feet to lands of Everts Ten Broeck; thence south sixty-five degrees twenty-one minutes east (S 65° 21' E) 641 feet; thence south thirty-three degrees twenty-five minutes west (S 33° 25' W) 1,172 1/2 feet to a stone monument; thence south seventy-one degrees twenty-nine minutes east (S 71° 29' E) 457 feet to a stone monument; thence north eighty-five degrees thirty-six minutes east (N 85° 36' E) 553 feet to a stone monument near an elm tree, on the north side of Berridge's quarry road; thence along the northerly side of Berridge's quarry road, north nineteen degrees twenty-five minutes east (N 19° 25' E) 1,627 feet to the westerly side of the Columbia Turnpike; thence northerly along the westerly side of the Columbia Turnpike, north forty-nine degrees two minutes west (N 49° 2' W) 433 feet; thence continuing along the westerly side of the Columbia Turnpike north forty-nine degrees twenty minutes west (N 49° 20' W) 817 feet to the center of Paul Avenue; thence northerly along the center of Paul Avenue to the northerly side of the Union Turnpike; thence easterly along the northerly side of the Union Turnpike to the lands of the Knickerbocker Portland Cement Company; thence in a northerly course having a left-hand deflection of ninety-seven degrees forty-five minutes (97° 45'), measured from the direction of the preceding course, 362 1/10 feet to an iron pin; thence easterly on a course having a right-hand deflection of seventy-three degrees twenty-nine minutes (73° 29'), measured from the direction of the preceding course, nine feet to an iron pin; thence northerly along the southerly line of the lands of the Mechanical Handlor Company and the Albany Southern Railroad Company, said course having a left-hand deflection of ninety degrees sixteen minutes (90° 16') measured from the direction of the preceding course, 602 feet to the northerly side of the Farmer's Turnpike; thence easterly along the northerly side of the Farmer's Turnpike on a course having a right-hand deflection-of ninety-three degrees ten minutes (93° 10'), measured from the direction of the preceding course, 808 5/10 feet; thence continuing along the northerly side of said turnpike on a left-hand deflection of eleven degrees twenty-two minutes (11° 22'), measured from the direction of the preceding course, 274 7/10 feet; thence continuing along the northerly side of said turnpike on a left-hand deflection of five degrees sixteen minutes (5° 16'), measured from the direction of the preceding course, 306 2/10 feet to a point in the division fence between the lands of Arthur Farrand and the tract known as the "Fairground Boulevards"; thence northwesterly along said division line on a left-hand deflection of ninety-six degrees fourteen minutes (96° 14'), measured from the direction of the preceding course, 700 feet; thence, as the magnetic needle stood in the year 1820 A.D., north eleven degrees and fifty minutes east (N 11° 50' E) 44 chains to a white oak tree standing one chain and 55 links from the northeasterly corner of the farm lately owned by Jonas White, and nine links westerly from the fence along the westerly side of the old road leading from Hudson to the print works; thence from this white oak tree north seventy-four degrees twenty-five minutes west (N 74° 25' W) to the middle of the Hudson River or to the Greene County line; thence southerly along the middle of the Hudson River to the point of intersection of said middle line with the prolongation of the first course mentioned in the description, thence to the place of beginning.

[Torie]

I see the structures that you are talking about. So you are suggesting that part of the cemetery is not in the city, per the city charter description, but is in the minutes?


In other news, somebody seems to be up to something on Robinson Street. I wonder what's going on?

[jimrtex]

In other news, somebody seems to be up to something on Robinson Street. I wonder what's going on?

Are you referring to the two houses with the brown roofs? The one on the right appears to have an absentee landlord. The parcel containing the house with the brown roof on the left doesn't come up with a property record - have the lots been merged?

This show the ward boundaries under my latest proposal. You didn't commented on equalizing VAPs.

[Torie]

"Are you referring to the two houses with the brown roofs? The one on the right appears to have an absentee landlord. The parcel containing the house with the brown roof on the left doesn't come up with a property record - have the lots been merged?"

Yes, all very mysterious. I wonder if Donald Trump has discovered Hudson or something.

[jimrtex]

This might be it.

City of Hudson Combined Sanitary System(PDF)(45 MB)

Grid N18, Page 194 of the PDF:



There must be large scale definitive zoning maps of the city. Do you know anyone on the Zoning Board of Appeals?

[Torie]

"Do you know anyone on the Zoning Board of Appeals?"

The is some new "citidiot" on the ZBA named Steve Dunn, who per "voy columbia," say "he says no to everything," but them what do you expect who would be appointed by our "pork chop" mayor? I think the ahole may be a lawyer, and there is there brown skinned man whom he hangs around. It's all very disturbing.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Could the chain measurement used in the city charter been 88 feet, rather than 66 feet

Any antiquarian surveyors?

It seems unlikely, but it's not impossible that rather than using an English chain of 66 feet, the surveyor could have used a Scottish chain of 74 feet, or an Irish chain of 84 feet.  In each case, the chain was equal to 4 perch in the local measure. The only way I can think of that a chain of 88 feet might have been used would have been by a weird combination of French and English units.  The French equivalent to the English perch, the perche, was either 18, 20, or 22 French feet (pieds) depending on the region but the pied was somewhat larger than the English foot and the perche used in the French colonies was 18 pieds.

[jimrtex]

Could the chain measurement used in the city charter been 88 feet, rather than 66 feet

Any antiquarian surveyors?

It seems unlikely, but it's not impossible that rather than using an English chain of 66 feet, the surveyor could have used a Scottish chain of 74 feet, or an Irish chain of 84 feet.  In each case, the chain was equal to 4 perch in the local measure. The only way I can think of that a chain of 88 feet might have been used would have been by a weird combination of French and English units.  The French equivalent to the English perch, the perche, was either 18, 20, or 22 French feet (pieds) depending on the region but the pied was somewhat larger than the English foot and the perche used in the French colonies was 18 pieds.

I found my mistake.

Somehow I had switched to a False Mercator projection. At Hudson's latitude of 42.5°, the scale factor is sec(42.5°) or 1.356. I had somehow convinced myself that distances were off by a factor of 1.333, which would make a chain of 88 feet, which is 1/60 of a mile.

What I now don't know is where the city limits are. The Town of Greenport was created in 1837. Greenport surrounds the city of Hudson on 3 sides, and looking at a map it would appear that the city was created from the town. But in actuality, it was the other way around. The City of Hudson was chartered with a great deal of farmland. Greenport comprised all of the city outside a small area of a few square miles.

The definition of Greenport's boundaries were later incorporated in the City of Hudson's charter. In New York, city charters were (are) part of New York state law. Until well into the 20th Century, a city charter would be created, or amended by ordinary legislation. If a city wanted an amendment to its charter, it would go lobby the legislature.

So when Greenport was created, a survey would have been conducted and that description was placed into state statute, and later found its way into the city charter.

But is that considered de jure, or merely descriptive? The willow and the white oak tree are no longer around.

[jimrtex]

Here is the complete description of the city boundaries. I will express all directions in degrees azimuth (measured clockwise from North). I am using 5.27°W as the magnetic declination for 1820, and 9.82°W for 1895.

The boundaries of the City shall be as follows: beginning at a point, as the magnetic needle stood in the year 1820 A.D., bearing north thirty-three degrees and twenty-five minutes west (N 33° 25' W) from a buoy standing at the southerly point of the flats in the Hudson River, which buoy bears south seventy-seven degrees and five minutes west (S 77° 5' W) 40 chains and 80 links from the southwesterly corner of Mr. Goodwin's dock in the City of Hudson, and north twenty-eight degrees and ten minutes west (N 28° 10' W) 29 chains from Black Rock, on the most northerly point of Mount Merino;

This is locating the starting point relative to a buoy south of the Middle Ground (or the shoal south of the Middle Ground). IIRC, passage of the ferry to Athens depended on the tides and the height of the river. If it was low, a much slower and circuitous route was required. The buoy was about 0.51 miles  WSW from Mr.Goodwin's dock (in South Bay), and about 0.36 miles NWbyN from Black Rock on Mount Merino.

thence from said buoy south thirty-three degrees and twenty-five minutes east (S 33° 25' E) 58 chains to a willow tree standing in the fence; thence south seventy degrees and ten minutes east (S 70° 10' E) 96 chains to the center of the old road passing through the farm formerly owned by Charles Evarts;

This is the southern boundary of Hudson:

141.31° 3828 feet (roughly southeast)
104.56° 6336 feet (east by south)

The old road is Ten Broeck Lane.

This is where the Census Bureau has the boundary at. Note that the split between the segments is east of 3rd Street, close to the railroad tracks. This matches the 1940 Census Map (based on map from Department of Public Works), and an 1873 historical atlas.





On the other hand, the property tax assessor places the break on 3rd Street. The yellow parcels don't necessarily represent how the property is titled. Parcels on both sides of the city-town line have the same owner. The split may simply reflect the division between Hudson and Greenport for property taxes.



This map matches the 1888 and 1891 maps, but the 1888 map shows the railroad crossing the city limits at 3rd Street.

The red line represents the city limits. But the tax assessor map is based on Google Maps, and so the city limits are where Google thinks the city limits are, which is based on a pre-2010 census definition.

The tax map matches the city comprehensive plan, and a small inset on the sewer map. I'd guess that a zoning map would show the same (Any ZBA members?)

thence along the center of said old road north sixty-three degrees and twenty minutes east (N 63° 20' E) six chains and 60 links; thence north forty-four degrees and twenty minutes east (N 44° 20' E) 10 chains and 45 links; thence north fifty-five degrees and fifty minutes east (N 55° 50' E) six chains; thence north thirty-three degrees and fifty minutes east (N 33° 50' E) one chain; thence, as the magnetic needle stood in the year 1895 at right angles from center of said old road south twenty-nine degrees twenty-five minutes east (S 29° 25' E) 16 1/2 feet; thence south twenty-three degrees twenty minutes west (S 23° 20' W) 264 feet to lands of Everts Ten Broeck; thence south sixty-five degrees twenty-one minutes east (S 65° 21' E) 641 feet; thence south thirty-three degrees twenty-five minutes west (S 33° 25' W) 1,172 1/2 feet to a stone monument; thence south seventy-one degrees twenty-nine minutes east (S 71° 29' E) 457 feet to a stone monument; thence north eighty-five degrees thirty-six minutes east (N 85° 36' E) 553 feet to a stone monument near an elm tree, on the north side of Berridge's quarry road; thence along the northerly side of Berridge's quarry road, north nineteen degrees twenty-five minutes east (N 19° 25' E) 1,627 feet to the westerly side of the Columbia Turnpike; thence northerly along the westerly side of the Columbia Turnpike, north forty-nine degrees two minutes west (N 49° 2' W) 433 feet; thence continuing along the westerly side of the Columbia Turnpike north forty-nine degrees twenty minutes west (N 49° 20' W) 817 feet to the center of Paul Avenue; thence northerly along the center of Paul Avenue to the northerly side of the Union Turnpike; thence easterly along the northerly side of the Union Turnpike to the lands of the Knickerbocker Portland Cement Company; thence in a northerly course having a left-hand deflection of ninety-seven degrees forty-five minutes (97° 45'), measured from the direction of the preceding course, 362 1/10 feet to an iron pin; thence easterly on a course having a right-hand deflection of seventy-three degrees twenty-nine minutes (73° 29'), measured from the direction of the preceding course, nine feet to an iron pin; thence northerly along the southerly line of the lands of the Mechanical Handlor Company and the Albany Southern Railroad Company, said course having a left-hand deflection of ninety degrees sixteen minutes (90° 16') measured from the direction of the preceding course, 602 feet to the northerly side of the Farmer's Turnpike; thence easterly along the northerly side of the Farmer's Turnpike on a course having a right-hand deflection-of ninety-three degrees ten minutes (93° 10'), measured from the direction of the preceding course, 808 5/10 feet; thence continuing along the northerly side of said turnpike on a left-hand deflection of eleven degrees twenty-two minutes (11° 22'), measured from the direction of the preceding course, 274 7/10 feet; thence continuing along the northerly side of said turnpike on a left-hand deflection of five degrees sixteen minutes (5° 16'), measured from the direction of the preceding course, 306 2/10 feet to a point in the division fence between the lands of Arthur Farrand and the tract known as the "Fairground Boulevards"; thence northwesterly along said division line on a left-hand deflection of ninety-six degrees fourteen minutes (96° 14'), measured from the direction of the preceding course, 700 feet; thence, as the magnetic needle stood in the year 1820 A.D., north eleven degrees and fifty minutes east (N 11° 50' E) 44 chains to a white oak tree standing one chain and 55 links from the northeasterly corner of the farm lately owned by Jonas White, and nine links westerly from the fence along the westerly side of the old road leading from Hudson to the print works; thence from this white oak tree north seventy-four degrees twenty-five minutes west (N 74° 25' W) to the middle of the Hudson River or to the Greene County line; thence southerly along the middle of the Hudson River to the point of intersection of said middle line with the prolongation of the first course mentioned in the description, thence to the place of beginning.

[jimrtex]

I was reading about  the 2020 Census and came across something called the Block Boundary Suggestion Project, where states (and localities) may suggest census block boundaries to be used for the 2020 Census.

2020 Census (Redistricting) Program Phases

It is not clear how the program works. The Census Bureau only wants to deal with one person in each state, so it may be up to somebody in Albany whether Hudson could actually have input. And it might be that the person in Albany only wants to deal with Columbia County, and not each town and city. It is possible that the initial deadline is May 15, so any changes might have to be proposed VERY QUICKLY.

The 2020 Census will use prisons and correctional institutions as block boundaries, so HCI will be separate from the civilians on Union Street. They will also do the same for Colleges and Universities. I thought that they might do this for all group quarters, but it does not appear that they will do so. They will (probably) include Group Quarters in the PL 94-171 release.

I came across a "prototype" census block shapefile, but I am not sure of its meaning. It might be intended as a prototype for a county government to use, or it might be what the Census Bureau will use if they don't get any suggestion.

For Hudson, they have added the prison boundaries, and they have added the railroad (this was used in 2000, but removed in 2010).

They have removed unnamed streets from being  used as block boundaries, so for example all the blocks in cemetery have been eliminated (combined into a single block).

They also appear to have merged small unpopulated blocks. For example the triangle surrounded by Green-Columbia-State has been merged with a street south of Columbia. This eliminates part of a ward boundary from being along the block boundary.

[jimrtex]

Suggested Corrections Part 1.



(1) Eliminate internal roads within cemetery; or alternatively properly align. In any case, these roads should not be used as tabulation block boundaries. If available, consider using cemetery property line as block boundary.

(2) Eliminate wobble in Columbia Turnpike.

(3) Realign streets, correct names on Prospect Hill.

(4) Realign Rossman Avenue.

(5) Eliminate extraneous features (persistent shoreline of reservoirs).

(6) Eliminate extraneous street. Eliminate tabulation block.

(7) Correct city limits, including Ten Broeck notch.