Legal description of Hudson's city boundaries
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  Legal description of Hudson's city boundaries
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jimrtex
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« Reply #75 on: April 24, 2016, 10:05:46 PM »

We need to know from the Census Bureau where 123, 125, 127, and 129 Fairview Avenue were enumerated:

In Census Tract 12, Block 1009
or Census Tract 11, Block 3038

We need to know what was the address of the people enumerated in

Census Tract 13, Block 4015.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #76 on: April 24, 2016, 10:08:26 PM »

Features that Census Bureau intends to use as block boundaries, but which I deleted.



None of the lines actually exist, except for the internal roads in the prison, which serve no purpose for the census.

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jimrtex
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« Reply #77 on: April 24, 2016, 10:20:29 PM »

Lines that the census bureau isn't planning on using for block boundaries, and I deleted them.



In essence, the Census Bureau is saying these aren't suitable for block boundaries, but we leave them here unless the people in Hudson want them. But they serve no purpose, so they should be deleted.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #78 on: April 24, 2016, 10:37:11 PM »

Lines not used for block boundaries, but lines kept.



These include boundary lines for the cemetery and hospital, the remnant of South Bay, and an island in North Bay. The island is used for a useless census block.

It also includes Underhill Pond and Oakdale Pond. I will flag these to be used for block boundaries.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #79 on: April 25, 2016, 02:06:09 AM »

Hudson Railroad Status



Red - Lines no longer exist:

(A) Railroad to cement plant across South Bay.
(B) Siding east of East Court Place.

Green - Confirm use as block boundary.

Some of the east-west RR were used for block boundaries in  2000, but were omitted in 2010. The census is proposing to use them in 2020. I confirmed that we liked the idea:

(A) State Street to Fairview Avenue
(B) Front Street to Union Street.
(C) Bridge across North Bay estuary - used to connect Hudson shoreline.

Lime Green - Force to keep.

(A) Currently the block boundary takes an excursion on the wye in South Bay. Since this is no longer available, I switched to the west track.

Blue - Force to not use.

(A) From Ferry Street to the North Bay estuary, the block boundary will be forced to the escarpment.

Cyan - No change in use as block boundary.

(A) Generally, west track south of Ferry.

Powder Blue - Current non usage unchanged.

(A) Union Street to State Street - blocks left alone.
(B) North of North Bay estuary, not used, tracks adjacent to shore.
(C) East track south of Ferry St, west track is used.

General strategy for mainline:

South of Ferry Street, west track  is used.
Between Ferry Street and North Bay estuary, escarpment is new block boundary.
Across bridge at North Bay, west track is used to connect shoreline.
North Bay, tracks not used as boundary.
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Torie
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« Reply #80 on: April 25, 2016, 07:02:34 AM »

Many of the features you use are not depicted on the census block map, nor appear on google map aerials. So how can they be used?
I'm not sure what you are saying. Can you give me some examples?

See:
2010 Census - Census Block Maps

On right hand side under "Place" select New York, then H, then Hudson to get PDF of census map

Nothing connects from Mill Street to Harry Howard, and yet you drew lines between the two - twice.


I added the lines.

We start with the 2010 lines (2015 actually).

The first part of the Block Boundary Suggestion Project is to propose edits to the current lines.

The census bureau is primarily interested in areas that have been newly developed, or redeveloped, since that is where there will be new streets, or changed streets. The census bureau is mainly interested in associating street addresses with census blocks, so that they can get people placed in the right area.

Second is to eliminate errata. Features that no longer exist (or never existed) or are missing or badly placed.

The third part is to suggest which lines be used as block boundaries.

I am being slightly aggressive in the second part, knowing where I will want to suggest blocks be place.

Mill Street clearly exists to 3rd Street. To change a feature, the old version is deleted, and a new one is added. So what I am really doing is telling the census bureau that their current line for Mill Street is too short.

The bike trail up the Dugway does exist, and what is shown as Mill Street at the top end does not exist. So I am telling the census bureau to eliminate that part of Mill Street and add the bike trail.

Mill Street and the bike trail are visible. Someone who lives in Hudson could verify their existence.

2020 Census Program Phases

PL 94-171

We are implementing PL 94-171, which requires the Census Bureau to consult with bodies responsible for redistricting as to what areas to enumerate. It is reasonable to assume that New York state wants a single set of data to be used for congressional, legislative, and local redistricting, even though it is unlikely that Hudson will be divided by legislative or congressional districts.

I am concerned that if the feature is not on the census map, then you don't have a closed polygon, which is what the Census bureau requires. Maybe it would be willing to add new features, but to try to go there, one would need tp see the feature on some map. You are drawing lines where there might be features (that you inferred are there, or whatever or used some topo map), but they are invisible on aerial maps.
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muon2
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« Reply #81 on: April 25, 2016, 08:36:35 AM »

Many of the features you use are not depicted on the census block map, nor appear on google map aerials. So how can they be used?
I'm not sure what you are saying. Can you give me some examples?

See:
2010 Census - Census Block Maps

On right hand side under "Place" select New York, then H, then Hudson to get PDF of census map

Nothing connects from Mill Street to Harry Howard, and yet you drew lines between the two - twice.


I added the lines.

We start with the 2010 lines (2015 actually).

The first part of the Block Boundary Suggestion Project is to propose edits to the current lines.

The census bureau is primarily interested in areas that have been newly developed, or redeveloped, since that is where there will be new streets, or changed streets. The census bureau is mainly interested in associating street addresses with census blocks, so that they can get people placed in the right area.

Second is to eliminate errata. Features that no longer exist (or never existed) or are missing or badly placed.

The third part is to suggest which lines be used as block boundaries.

I am being slightly aggressive in the second part, knowing where I will want to suggest blocks be place.

Mill Street clearly exists to 3rd Street. To change a feature, the old version is deleted, and a new one is added. So what I am really doing is telling the census bureau that their current line for Mill Street is too short.

The bike trail up the Dugway does exist, and what is shown as Mill Street at the top end does not exist. So I am telling the census bureau to eliminate that part of Mill Street and add the bike trail.

Mill Street and the bike trail are visible. Someone who lives in Hudson could verify their existence.

2020 Census Program Phases

PL 94-171

We are implementing PL 94-171, which requires the Census Bureau to consult with bodies responsible for redistricting as to what areas to enumerate. It is reasonable to assume that New York state wants a single set of data to be used for congressional, legislative, and local redistricting, even though it is unlikely that Hudson will be divided by legislative or congressional districts.

I am concerned that if the feature is not on the census map, then you don't have a closed polygon, which is what the Census bureau requires. Maybe it would be willing to add new features, but to try to go there, one would need tp see the feature on some map. You are drawing lines where there might be features (that you inferred are there, or whatever or used some topo map), but they are invisible on aerial maps.

In the case of Mill St, I see a clear path on Google Earth that links the two stubs. The creek from Underhill pond is also visible in spots on GE, so that seems like it could be a legitimate feature, too.
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Torie
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« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2016, 08:57:43 AM »
« Edited: April 25, 2016, 09:05:47 AM by Torie »

Yes, there is a closed road connecting the two stubs of Mill Street (which I have traversed many times on foot), and that is one instance where I will try to get the Census Bureau to accept that. The other red line between Mill and 3rd St below is but a clearing, with a rather steep incline, and is not something that can be used as a boundary I would think.

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jimrtex
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« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2016, 12:31:49 PM »

Many of the features you use are not depicted on the census block map, nor appear on google map aerials. So how can they be used?
I'm not sure what you are saying. Can you give me some examples?

See:
2010 Census - Census Block Maps

On right hand side under "Place" select New York, then H, then Hudson to get PDF of census map

Nothing connects from Mill Street to Harry Howard, and yet you drew lines between the two - twice.


I added the lines.

We start with the 2010 lines (2015 actually).

The first part of the Block Boundary Suggestion Project is to propose edits to the current lines.

The census bureau is primarily interested in areas that have been newly developed, or redeveloped, since that is where there will be new streets, or changed streets. The census bureau is mainly interested in associating street addresses with census blocks, so that they can get people placed in the right area.

Second is to eliminate errata. Features that no longer exist (or never existed) or are missing or badly placed.

The third part is to suggest which lines be used as block boundaries.

I am being slightly aggressive in the second part, knowing where I will want to suggest blocks be place.

Mill Street clearly exists to 3rd Street. To change a feature, the old version is deleted, and a new one is added. So what I am really doing is telling the census bureau that their current line for Mill Street is too short.

The bike trail up the Dugway does exist, and what is shown as Mill Street at the top end does not exist. So I am telling the census bureau to eliminate that part of Mill Street and add the bike trail.

Mill Street and the bike trail are visible. Someone who lives in Hudson could verify their existence.

2020 Census Program Phases

PL 94-171

We are implementing PL 94-171, which requires the Census Bureau to consult with bodies responsible for redistricting as to what areas to enumerate. It is reasonable to assume that New York state wants a single set of data to be used for congressional, legislative, and local redistricting, even though it is unlikely that Hudson will be divided by legislative or congressional districts.

I am concerned that if the feature is not on the census map, then you don't have a closed polygon, which is what the Census bureau requires. Maybe it would be willing to add new features, but to try to go there, one would need tp see the feature on some map. You are drawing lines where there might be features (that you inferred are there, or whatever or used some topo map), but they are invisible on aerial maps.

2020 Census Program Phases

Click on "BBSP Geographic Update Partnership Software Participant Guide [PDF]"

GUPS is the software that is being used. Read Parts I. You might not understand what Colleen of the Census was telling you.

Have you read PL 94-171?
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Torie
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« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2016, 01:00:38 PM »
« Edited: April 25, 2016, 01:02:21 PM by Torie »

Well the document I read does state one can add new features, but you are drawing lines where the features are not visible on any map. Here is a list of features that will be accepted.  Maybe a point to point line includes an invisible line with no features. How that works on the ground, I don't know. Colleen stated one must draw closed polygons.

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jimrtex
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« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2016, 05:26:33 PM »

Well the document I read does state one can add new features, but you are drawing lines where the features are not visible on any map. Here is a list of features that will be accepted.  Maybe a point to point line includes an invisible line with no features. How that works on the ground, I don't know. Colleen stated one must draw closed polygons.



Where do you get this notion of "visible on any map"?  A map is a symbolic representation of geographical data.

Go out your front door, what do you see?  There is a 25 foot-wide strip of asphalt that is know as Robinson Street. That is the visible feature.

The infinitely thin line in the census bureau data base, or pencil-thin black line on census maps is a representation of that data.

Which document are you looking at? If you tell me, I'll give you some other page references.

National Hydrography Dataset

National Hydrography Dataset





Columbia County Property Search

Insert the name of a property owner or a street address. If the property owner owns multiple properties, click on one of them. Over on the right side click on "Pin Property on GIS Map" and zoom out. or start here:

Columbia County Property Search and zoom in.



Note that Google Maps is placing gray street markers, which is contaminating your understanding. Get in a car, and you will have no difficulty driving down Mill Street to even with 3rd Street. If you go up to the top end of the Dugway, you won't be able to drive on what is shown as "Mill Street". It is now a bike trail, which crosses Lucille Drive and then continues on a zebra-striped area on the west side of Harry Howard out to the High School. The bike trail up the Dugway is part of a bike route which uses Front Street, Dock Street, Mill Street, the bike trail, and the side of Harry Howard.

Third Street has been part of the Hudson ward boundaries since 1815. It then continued up the Dugway and out the road now known as Harry Howard Avenue and on north to what is now Stockport, but was then part of the City of Hudson. At that time, the city charter was under control of the New York State legislature. It is quite possible, perhaps even likely, that State Senator Martin Van Buren sponsored the legislation. He was probably familiar with the route traveling between Kinderhook and Hudson.

Somewhat later, Rick Scalera recalls as a first grader at Charles Williams School (west side of 3rd Street, north of Robinson Street) that the playground was at the bottom of the hill. The tax office gives the address of the parcel of land at the southwest corner of 3rd St and Mill St, as 3rd Street and Mill Street.

The land is in the 3rd Street right of way, so it may actually be considered an unpaved portion of 3rd Street by the city of Hudson. How is it depicted on zoning maps?

There is clearly a logical, rational, and legitimate basis for drawing the 3rd Street extension. The Census Bureau should accept our suggestion.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #86 on: April 25, 2016, 09:15:28 PM »

This shows the edges for Houston.

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added.



To be deleted:

(A) Statistical lines in North Bay.
(B) Front Street north of Dock Street.
(C) Lombard Street south of Dock Street.
(D) State Avenue west of Front Street.
(E) Loop at Warren west of Front Street.

Do you think any of these should be kept?

To be replaced (to replace an edge, it must be deleted and then added)

(A) Mill Street east of 2nd Street (being extended to 3rd Street)
(B) Dock Street west of Front Street (being extended toward RR tracks)
(C) Stream east of 2nd Street, near Mill Street (corrected position)

Do you think any of these are not accurate?

Being added:

(A) Escarpment above railroad tracks.
(B) Boundary of Promenade Hill Park.

Do you think that any of these are not visible?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #87 on: April 25, 2016, 09:24:33 PM »

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added.



To be deleted:

None.

To be replaced (to replace an edge, it must be deleted and then added)

(A) Mill Street east of 2nd Street (being extended to 3rd Street)
(B) Stream east of 2nd Street, near Mill Street (corrected position)

Do you think any of these are not accurate?

Being added:

None.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #88 on: April 25, 2016, 09:31:21 PM »

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added.



To be deleted:

(A) Driveways around High School.
(B) Driveways around Firemen's Home.

Do you think any of these should be kept?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #89 on: April 25, 2016, 10:48:16 PM »
« Edited: April 25, 2016, 11:39:07 PM by jimrtex »

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added.



To be deleted:

(A) Railroad to Cement Plant (across South Bay)
(B) Driveway to Holcim Deep Port

Do you think any of these should be kept?

To be replaced (to replace an edge, it must be deleted and then added)

(A) Ferry Street west of Front Street (segment through parking lot removed, extended towards water/

Do you think any of these are not accurate?

Being added:

(A) Extension of Ferry Street to shoreline (to close polygon).
(B) South Bay Causeway Truck Route (connects to Front Street south of Broad Street).

Do you think that any of these are not visible?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #90 on: April 25, 2016, 11:04:00 PM »
« Edited: April 25, 2016, 11:07:52 PM by jimrtex »

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added.



To be deleted:

(A) Loop west of RR Tracks and north of Ferry Street.
(B) Loop west of Front Street at Warren.
(C) South Alley.
(D) Statistical line from northern tip of 3rd Street with jackknife back to east.

Do you think any of these should be kept?

To be replaced (to replace an edge, it must be deleted and then added)

(A) Ferry Street west of Front Street (segment through parking lot removed, extended towards water/
(B) Deer Alley west of Cross Lane (align towards west)
(C) Extend Mill Street to 3rd Street.
(D) Correct alignment of stream from 2nd Street and Mill Street.
(E) Correct alignment of Washington Street.
(F) Extend Cherry Alley from City Hall Place to 5th Street (currently shown as gap across 4th Street)

Do you think any of these are not accurate?

Being added:

(A) Boundaries of Promenade Hill Park
(B) Escarpment west of Promenade Hill Park
(C) Stream from 3rd Street to Underhill Pond
(D) Extension from tip of 3rd Street to Mill Street.

Do you think that any of these are not visible?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #91 on: April 25, 2016, 11:23:18 PM »

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added.



To be deleted:

(A) Statistical line west from Clinton Street.
(B) Driveways around Firemen's Home
(C) Driveways around Middle School.
(D) Mill Street west of Harry Howard/Lucille Drive

Do you think any of these should be kept?

To be replaced (to replace an edge, it must be deleted and then added)

(A) Extend Mill Street to 3rd Street.
(B) Correction of Washington Street west of Harry Howard Avenue.

Do you think any of these are not accurate?

Being added:

(A) Bike trail up Dugway.
(B) Stream from 3rd Street to Underhill Pond
(C) Stream between Underhill Pond and Oakdale Pond
(D) Stream from Underhill Pond north of Glenwood Boulevard.
(E) Extension of 3rd Street to Mill Street.

Do you think that any of these are not visible?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #92 on: April 25, 2016, 11:32:49 PM »

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added



To be deleted:

(A) Driveways around Firemen's Home
(B) Driveways around Middle School.

Do you think any of these should be kept?

Being added:

(A) Stream from Underhill Pond to Paddock Place.
(B) Stream from Oakdale Pond to RR Tracks south of Spring Street.

Do you think that any of these are not visible?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #93 on: April 25, 2016, 11:46:59 PM »

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added



To be deleted:

(A) Railroad across South Bay to cement plant.
(B) Statistical line east of railroad, east of 3rd Street.

Do you think any of these should be kept?

Being added:

(A) South Bay Causeway Truck Route

Do you think that any of these are not visible?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2016, 07:09:32 AM »

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added



To be deleted:

(A) Statistical line from end of Hudson Avenue to RR tracks.
(B) RR siding east of E Court Place
(C) Connector between 3rd Street and Power Avenue
(D) Internal Roads in Hudson Correctional Institution

Do you think any of these should be kept?

To be replaced (to replace an edge, it must be deleted and then added)

(A) Truncate Hudson Avenue to north-south extent, deleting tail across parking lot.
(B) Completion of Cherry Alley between 4th Street and 5th Street.
(C) Replacing road around south side of Hudson Correctional Institution with connection to road from Worth Avenue (forming one complete road from East Court Place through prison to Worth Avenue).

Do you think any of these are not accurate?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #95 on: April 26, 2016, 07:30:06 AM »

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added



To be deleted:

(A) Road from 7th Street just north of State Street (east west,and then turn to north).
(B) Two extraneous streets between State Street and Long Alley, between 6th Street and 7th Street.
(C) Prison Alley across Public Square.
(D) Former alignment of Long Alley into intersection of Columbia Street and Green Street, (replaced by curve into Columbia Street)
(E) Extraneous street next to State Street, between RR tracks and Green Street.
(F) Statistical line from west end of Joe Alley to Green Street and Columbia Street.
(G) Misplaced driveway at 900 Columbia Street
(H) Road west of Columbia Memorial Hospital between Columbia Street and Prospect Avenue
(I) Extraneous street southeast of Warren Street and Worth Avenue intersection.

Do you think any of these should be kept?

To be replaced (to replace an edge, it must be deleted and then added)

(A) Correction of position of Van Winkle Road, Van Winkle Road Extension, Academy Hill Drive.

Do you think any of these are not accurate?

Being added:

(A) Rope Alley between 6th Street and 7th Street

Do you think that any of these are not visible?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #96 on: April 26, 2016, 07:41:16 AM »

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added



To be deleted:

(A) Extension of Faxon Avenue through parking lot northwest of Fairview Avenue and Storm Avenue
(B) Spurious depiction of Columbia Turnpike east of intersection of Columbia Street and Prospect Avenue.
(C) Internal roads in cemetery

Do you think any of these should be kept?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #97 on: April 26, 2016, 01:13:56 PM »

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added



To be deleted:

(A) Internal Roads in Hudson Correctional Institution

Do you think any of these should be kept?

To be replaced (to replace an edge, it must be deleted and then added)

(A) Replacing road around south side of Hudson Correctional Institution with connection to road from Worth Avenue (forming one complete road from East Court Place through prison to Worth Avenue).

Do you think any of these are not accurate?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #98 on: April 26, 2016, 01:17:50 PM »

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added



To be deleted:

(A) Driveway to Bronson House.
(B) Former reservoirs on Reservoir Hill.

Do you think any of these should be kept?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #99 on: April 26, 2016, 01:28:48 PM »

Blue: existing edges, that I am suggesting be kept.
Red: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be deleted.
Green: existing edges, that I am suggesting to be added



To be deleted:

(A) Internal Roads in Cemtery

Do you think any of these should be kept?

To be replaced (to replace an edge, it must be deleted and then added)

(A) Correction in alignment of Van Winkle Road; Van Winkle Road Extension; and Academy Hill Road.

Do you think any of these are not accurate?
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