Legal description of Hudson's city boundaries

[Torie]

I pity a surveyor having to work with this one!

http://ecode360.com/13594835

Interestingly, the alleys in Hudson are not subject to being surveyed. Nobody knows where they are supposed to be. All one knows is that they are 20 feet wide. So where the pavement is, rules. Surveyors just try to find some middle line for a block of the alley, using some metric, and take 10 feet from that on either side.

[Torie]

It's not as if some slight population error makes a wit of difference in any event for purposes of this exercise. And yes, the appropriate course is to follow what the census did slavishly.

[Torie]

I'm not sure about NY law, but if the Census made an error, Hudson may have to use that error. I IL the population of a city is what the Census says it is. If a city finds that the count is in error then there is a process to appeal and correct the error. Once the correction is certified to the state, then the city can claim that new population.

It violates equal protection to include persons living outside the corporate limits of Hudson when apportioning the Common Council.

Hudson already estimates the population of census blocks that are split by ward boundaries.
Census Tract 13, Block 4015 is split by a ward boundary.

Have we forgotten the 10% fudge factor? Sure, one needs a policy reason to diverge from perfect equality, but a good faith effort based on official government data, even if wrong, is good enough.

[Torie]

I'm not sure about NY law, but if the Census made an error, Hudson may have to use that error. I IL the population of a city is what the Census says it is. If a city finds that the count is in error then there is a process to appeal and correct the error. Once the correction is certified to the state, then the city can claim that new population.

It violates equal protection to include persons living outside the corporate limits of Hudson when apportioning the Common Council.

Hudson already estimates the population of census blocks that are split by ward boundaries.
Census Tract 13, Block 4015 is split by a ward boundary.

Have we forgotten the 10% fudge factor? Sure, one needs a policy reason to diverge from perfect equality, but a good faith effort based on official government data, even if wrong, is good enough.

Shouldn't your map match your legal description?

Could you check the voter rolls for Greenport and find out if they have anyone on Paul Ave?

Now that you know that the census data is in error, can it be considered to be acting in good faith to use it?

Can you draw where you think the map is wrong. Is it part of the Columbia triangle or what specifically? In looking at the addresses included in ward 3 on the BOE documents, it lists Paul Ave, the odd numbers between 1-121 inclusive. That seems to match the map.

[Torie]

I still not clear exactly where the map is in error.

[Torie]

I see the structures that you are talking about. So you are suggesting that part of the cemetery is not in the city, per the city charter description, but is in the minutes?


In other news, somebody seems to be up to something on Robinson Street. I wonder what's going on?

[Torie]

"Are you referring to the two houses with the brown roofs? The one on the right appears to have an absentee landlord. The parcel containing the house with the brown roof on the left doesn't come up with a property record - have the lots been merged?"

Yes, all very mysterious. I wonder if Donald Trump has discovered Hudson or something.

[Torie]

"Do you know anyone on the Zoning Board of Appeals?"

The is some new "citidiot" on the ZBA named Steve Dunn, who per "voy columbia," say "he says no to everything," but them what do you expect who would be appointed by our "pork chop" mayor? I think the ahole may be a lawyer, and there is there brown skinned man whom he hangs around. It's all very disturbing.

[Torie]

The notch is in the city? That's the historic Bronson house there.

Would you please draw the exact line, and what language you are relying upon, and the explanation please?

[Torie]

Yeah, the Bronson House is on the other side of Worth. My bad. I really can't figure out what you are doing. The colors confuse me. And what are the numbers? And I still don't understand the blue lines in the notch with a number 7 there. Maybe when you prepare a master map, it will make more sense. I also still don't quite understand where you moved the city boundary lines.

[Torie]

Why create census blocks where nobody lives? Why is it necessary to use the river for its entire length through Hudson, rather than just sections of it where useful?  The blue line where I put the red arrow does not seem to relate to anything on the ground. If you want to create an empty census block, why not just use the intersection of an extension of Mill Street and 3rd Street? (Oh, actually there are two or three houses there on 2nd street in the southwest corner.) See below.

Oh, I called the redistricting project at the census bureau (301-763-4039), to learn how the process works, and what the deadlines are, and somebody took my phone number, and said somebody would call me back.



 

[Torie]

The May 31 deadline is indeed the deadline. You make the changes on a software program that Latfor has. I am in contact with Latfor. So we need to get this map done soon. Maybe I can persuade them to let me play with the disk.

[Torie]

OK, I am on top of this. The census bureau person who is in charge of this called me. It needs to be done by disk, not manually, by NY state officials, who were went a disk. The census blocks are generated from aerials. There have been substantial corrections for NY since the 2010 census. So what I need Jimrtex is a simple map showing the most important changes, to get more access. Other changes can come later. So if you would bifurcate the census blocks that I bifurcated below on an existing census map using an aerial to show the physical features, that would be great. I can send it to the US census bureau and to Latfor (the guy I talked to at Latfor seemed to know nothing about the program  (but per Colleen he might not be the right point person because they have the disk), and he asked me to send him a detailed email I want the map I am requesting from you attached, and will  copy Colleen on it, and bcc you.

With any luck they will send me a disk, or let me play with Hudson in Latfor's Albany offices. I doubt someone there will devote much time to Hudson personally. We shall see. Thanks.

Oh yes. The US census bureau only does physical features, not projections from a physical point. They are not surveyors. So I don't think we have a physical feature to divide Mill Street from the firemen's home, or crosswinds from the portion of the census block with 75 people that is currently split by the ward lines, or the homes on west Union near Worth Ave. from the prison facilities. That is too bad, but if no physical feature to use as a dividing line, we are screwed, or so I was told by Colleen at the US census bureau.



Oh, and please also bisect the big cahuna census block, even though I am not sure there is a qualifying physical feature (and I don't know exactly where the river front census block starts, but I ever confidence that you do), but maybe we can get away with it somehow. Thanks again Jimrtex. You sir, are going to continue to have a substantial impact on what actually happens in Hudson. Enjoy! I call you in the Hudson power circles, "my secret weapon of mass destruction."   They wondered who my mole was that was feeding me information. I told them my mole lived in Houston, and just had taken an interest in Hudson, and loved to solve puzzles, and apparently was as fascinated by Hudson as I was. That left them confused!

[Torie]

The road is on the prison property, and does not have a name to my knowledge. There is a locked gate on Worth Avenue.

[Torie]

The Bronson House is described as on prison grounds. When I have time, I will find out who the legal owner is.

[Torie]

Just go to google maps, and you can pull up any address that you want. Yes, the townhouses are relatively new, and some recently built. We just approved a variance for the buildout of two more.

[Torie]

Many of the features you use are not depicted on the census block map, nor appear on google map aerials. So how can they be used?

[Torie]

Many of the features you use are not depicted on the census block map, nor appear on google map aerials. So how can they be used?

I'm not sure what you are saying. Can you give me some examples?

See:
2010 Census - Census Block Maps

On right hand side under "Place" select New York, then H, then Hudson to get PDF of census map

Nothing connects from Mill Street to Harry Howard, and yet you drew lines between the two - twice.

[Torie]

Many of the features you use are not depicted on the census block map, nor appear on google map aerials. So how can they be used?

I'm not sure what you are saying. Can you give me some examples?

See:
2010 Census - Census Block Maps

On right hand side under "Place" select New York, then H, then Hudson to get PDF of census map

Nothing connects from Mill Street to Harry Howard, and yet you drew lines between the two - twice.

I added the lines.

We start with the 2010 lines (2015 actually).

The first part of the Block Boundary Suggestion Project is to propose edits to the current lines.

The census bureau is primarily interested in areas that have been newly developed, or redeveloped, since that is where there will be new streets, or changed streets. The census bureau is mainly interested in associating street addresses with census blocks, so that they can get people placed in the right area.

Second is to eliminate errata. Features that no longer exist (or never existed) or are missing or badly placed.

The third part is to suggest which lines be used as block boundaries.

I am being slightly aggressive in the second part, knowing where I will want to suggest blocks be place.

Mill Street clearly exists to 3rd Street. To change a feature, the old version is deleted, and a new one is added. So what I am really doing is telling the census bureau that their current line for Mill Street is too short.

The bike trail up the Dugway does exist, and what is shown as Mill Street at the top end does not exist. So I am telling the census bureau to eliminate that part of Mill Street and add the bike trail.

Mill Street and the bike trail are visible. Someone who lives in Hudson could verify their existence.

2020 Census Program Phases

PL 94-171

We are implementing PL 94-171, which requires the Census Bureau to consult with bodies responsible for redistricting as to what areas to enumerate. It is reasonable to assume that New York state wants a single set of data to be used for congressional, legislative, and local redistricting, even though it is unlikely that Hudson will be divided by legislative or congressional districts.

I am concerned that if the feature is not on the census map, then you don't have a closed polygon, which is what the Census bureau requires. Maybe it would be willing to add new features, but to try to go there, one would need tp see the feature on some map. You are drawing lines where there might be features (that you inferred are there, or whatever or used some topo map), but they are invisible on aerial maps.

[Torie]

Yes, there is a closed road connecting the two stubs of Mill Street (which I have traversed many times on foot), and that is one instance where I will try to get the Census Bureau to accept that. The other red line between Mill and 3rd St below is but a clearing, with a rather steep incline, and is not something that can be used as a boundary I would think.

[Torie]

Well the document I read does state one can add new features, but you are drawing lines where the features are not visible on any map. Here is a list of features that will be accepted.  Maybe a point to point line includes an invisible line with no features. How that works on the ground, I don't know. Colleen stated one must draw closed polygons.

[Torie]

Do I need to download "python modules" with the download of QGIS?  I want to make some suggestions to the NY guy, but just a few, not zillions, which will just drive them away. Pick your shots baby.

OK, go QGIS open with a blank page, and got the sample up. So where do I get the data set for Hudson that shows all those hydrology features you are putting up and what not that I cannot see on Google Maps? Is this going to give me access to more visible physical features?

And where did you get the below super clear image from?

[Torie]

This is pretty interesting.

What is Hudson's Conservation Advisory Council

Our inventory will produce both a written description and a digital map. It will incorporate many
types of information including (but not limited to)
• property boundaries, and whether properties are public or private, built or unbuilt
• topography, slopes and erosion problems
• natural habitats and the presence of rare or threatened species
• water features, drainage courses, wetlands and flood zones
• tree canopy and street trees
• existing and proposed water, stormwater and sewer lines
• historic districts and sites, and other cultural resources

See General Municipal Law (GMU) Section 12-F

Does Columbia County have a Conservation Advisory Council? Any of the towns or villages in the county?

The conservation group started last year. It's relatively new.

[Torie]

I just noticed that the proposal for development of the Kaz site refers to it as Montgomery Street. This suggests that the segment of street between 2nd Street and Tanners Lane, is actually Montgomery Street - or that the developers decided that Montgomery was a better name than Cross or Tanners, or 2nd Street.

Have there been safety issues raised about the lack of access to the east end of Tanners Lane, particularly if the hotel is short of parking?

I just noticed the drop off in this area down to the former South Bay. At Deer Alley and Cross Lane it appears that there is a house with a rather spectacular view off to the southwest.

ZBA minutes for 2016 don't appear to being posted on the city website.

Montgomery "street" is a tiny alley at the moment. It was closed off long ago. Cross street at the moment is effectively a dead end, although you can drive through the alley in back of the Hotel site and drive through a parking area to get to Front Street. No safety issues were raised. The Hotel allegedly has a five year lease from CSX for the parking area.

[Torie]

The Kaz proposal involves work-living spaces.