Next countries to legalize Gay Marriage? (after Colombia)
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Author Topic: Next countries to legalize Gay Marriage? (after Colombia)  (Read 9836 times)
Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan
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« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2016, 11:46:00 AM »


No.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2016, 04:43:51 PM »


Then you will inevitably stay unhappy.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2016, 09:57:24 PM »

First Tier (pretty likely within the next one or two years, or otherwise "inevitable"):

Rest of Mexico, Taiwan, Australia, Switzerland, Costa Rica, Faroe Islands,

Second Tier (by 2020, I'd be surprised if the dominos hadn't fallen)

Greece, Italy, N. Ireland, Austria, Germany, Nepal, Malta, Costa Rica, Estonia

Third Tier: Wild-cards

Japan, S. Korea, Albania, Thailand, Israel (civil marriage would have to be enacted first), Vietnam, Ecuador, Venezuela, Chile (!), Bolivia (would have to be done via constitution though, so rather unlikely), Ecuador (same), Rest of EU, Cuba
Why Switzerland?
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Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan
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« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2016, 10:25:28 AM »


We will see Smiley
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jaichind
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« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2016, 12:29:36 PM »
« Edited: December 23, 2016, 12:31:07 PM by jaichind »

There is a current bill in the ROC legislature to legalize Gay Marriage.  There are cultural conservative blocs within both the ruling DPP and the opposition KMT that are trying to water it down to civil union.  Issue of Gay marriage has become quite controversial despite the fact that Chinese traditions does not really focus on this issue, unlike the Christian tradition.  Somehow opposition seems stronger than expected.  With no real Christian tradition on ROC plus no Chinese traditional symbols to use to oppose Gay Marriage, some are using Nazi symbols as a way to show their opposition.  In a high school parade in Hsinchu County a good portion of a the entire class that were partially mobilized to oppose Gay Marriage decided to parade around in Nazi uniforms as a way to project their view on this.









Of course the high school then came under criticism for allowing this parade and worked overtime to try to erase pictures of this even to no avail.

Of course the ROC public has a history of using Nazi symbols for various commercial activities since there is not the negative sensitively toward the Nazi regime that exists in the West.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2016, 12:36:02 PM »

I've recently read some article that many East-Asians (Chinese, Taiwanese, Koreans and Japanese) have a strong fetish for Nazi symbols and clothes, even though they are not really Nazis themselves.

This is really weird.

Anyway, what are the polls like in Taiwan on the issue of gay marriage ? And if you happen to know, in China ? I always figured support for it might not be that bad in Taiwan, but I have no clue about China (don't even know if the "opinion" "polls" there are even legitimate) ...
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2016, 01:02:16 PM »

As for the progress of gay marriage in Austria:

Currently, we still have civil unions with full adoption laws.

But just recently, parliament amended the civil union law to equalize gay couples by another 2 points.

That means civil unions and hetero marriage now differ by about 15 points anymore instead of some 50 a few years ago. (Some experts even say that among some points, gay couples actually have the better* - or, more modern - law than heterosexuals).

It's entirely possible that in a few years, gay couples will have all the same rights as hetero couples who are getting married - just that the law is still called "registered partnership" and not "marriage".

For an actual equalisation and merger of the 2 laws (the hetero one and the homosexual one), it would probably need an SPÖ-Greens-NEOS coalition (which is very unlikely to ever happen).

ÖVP and FPÖ will continue to block any full equality.

---

*"better" - that is because the Austrian Marriage Law is from 1938 (right after the Anschluss to Nazi-Germany). After the War, all the Nazi-language regarding marriage and family was removed of course and it was amended and updated further in the 1970s in favour of women's rights.

Still the law is quite outdated and the new - homosexual - civil union law is better in many aspects considering today's patchwork families, work-related issues, etc.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2016, 01:09:36 PM »

First Tier (pretty likely within the next one or two years, or otherwise "inevitable"):

Rest of Mexico, Taiwan, Australia, Switzerland, Costa Rica, Faroe Islands,

Second Tier (by 2020, I'd be surprised if the dominos hadn't fallen)

Greece, Italy, N. Ireland, Austria, Germany, Nepal, Malta, Costa Rica, Estonia

Third Tier: Wild-cards

Japan, S. Korea, Albania, Thailand, Israel (civil marriage would have to be enacted first), Vietnam, Ecuador, Venezuela, Chile (!), Bolivia (would have to be done via constitution though, so rather unlikely), Ecuador (same), Rest of EU, Cuba
Why Switzerland?

70% support according to a recent poll

Even UDC and PDC voters are in favour by wide margins.

I'm not aware that anyone is gathering signatures for a referendum though, so unlikely that it happens in the the next year or two.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2016, 01:14:50 PM »

First Tier (pretty likely within the next one or two years, or otherwise "inevitable"):

Rest of Mexico, Taiwan, Australia, Switzerland, Costa Rica, Faroe Islands,

Second Tier (by 2020, I'd be surprised if the dominos hadn't fallen)

Greece, Italy, N. Ireland, Austria, Germany, Nepal, Malta, Costa Rica, Estonia

Third Tier: Wild-cards

Japan, S. Korea, Albania, Thailand, Israel (civil marriage would have to be enacted first), Vietnam, Ecuador, Venezuela, Chile (!), Bolivia (would have to be done via constitution though, so rather unlikely), Ecuador (same), Rest of EU, Cuba
Why Switzerland?

70% support according to a recent poll

Even UDC and PDC voters are in favour by wide margins.

I'm not aware that anyone is gathering signatures for a referendum though, so unlikely that it happens in the the next year or two.

Same here.

There's no new poll because the issue is rather non-important for Austrians, but some polls from 2014/2015 found 73-74% in favour (Market poll for example).
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jaichind
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« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2016, 02:58:52 PM »

I've recently read some article that many East-Asians (Chinese, Taiwanese, Koreans and Japanese) have a strong fetish for Nazi symbols and clothes, even though they are not really Nazis themselves.

This is really weird.

Anyway, what are the polls like in Taiwan on the issue of gay marriage ? And if you happen to know, in China ? I always figured support for it might not be that bad in Taiwan, but I have no clue about China (don't even know if the "opinion" "polls" there are even legitimate) ...

Most ROC polls had a medium sized lead for Marriage legalization for a decade or two now.  That seems to have changed once the bill was brought up and polls has trended toward a slight lead for against legalization.  I suspect it has to do with the women's vote.  The gender gap on ROC has always had women leaning Right.  The women's vote has always leaned toward status quo and stability, including stability of the nuclear family.  It was the ROC women's vote that help create laws that made extra-marital affairs illegal from a civil law point of view meaning the victim spouse can sue the adulterer for breaking up the family.  The ROC wife is very powerful within the nuclear family household and I guess the women's vote views Gay marriage as a threat to the status quo of government backing of the nuclear family.   
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2016, 04:09:19 AM »

First Tier (pretty likely within the next one or two years, or otherwise "inevitable"):

Rest of Mexico, Taiwan, Australia, Switzerland, Costa Rica, Faroe Islands,

Second Tier (by 2020, I'd be surprised if the dominos hadn't fallen)

Greece, Italy, N. Ireland, Austria, Germany, Nepal, Malta, Costa Rica, Estonia

Third Tier: Wild-cards

Japan, S. Korea, Albania, Thailand, Israel (civil marriage would have to be enacted first), Vietnam, Ecuador, Venezuela, Chile (!), Bolivia (would have to be done via constitution though, so rather unlikely), Ecuador (same), Rest of EU, Cuba
Why Switzerland?

70% support according to a recent poll

Even UDC and PDC voters are in favour by wide margins.

I'm not aware that anyone is gathering signatures for a referendum though, so unlikely that it happens in the the next year or two.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Poll-76-percent-of-Jewish-Israelis-support-same-sex-marriage-or-civil-unions-455653

Even bigger numbers in Israel. That includes right wing voters, of course.
But it doesn't matter at all- as long as the religious extremist parties (Ultra Orthodox) are in the government, same sex marriage, unfourtunately, will never happen. And for now, it seems like they will be in every concieveable government.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2016, 12:30:30 PM »
« Edited: December 25, 2016, 12:33:37 PM by DavidB. »

Even bigger numbers in Israel. That includes right wing voters, of course.
But it doesn't matter at all- as long as the religious extremist parties (Ultra Orthodox) are in the government, same sex marriage, unfourtunately, will never happen. And for now, it seems like they will be in every concieveable government.
It is obviously not only the haredim (though I agree they are the main opponents), otherwise it could have happened in the previous government. It is also Bayit Yehudi, and not everyone in the Likud supports it either.

The fact that civil marriage would have to be instituted doesn't help. I personally support instituting civil marriage only for same-sex couples, with straight people still having to do it the religious way, but that seems very unlikely (though perhaps something some religious people would not even object to as much as to civil marriage for everyone).

But yeah, unfortunately I am not even sure gay marriage in Israel will ever pass.
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Xing
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« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2016, 01:14:16 PM »

It's definitely true that the swastika doesn't mean the same thing in East Asia that it means in the West, but seeing someone doing a Heil Hitler while inside a tank is still pretty damn disturbing. I never met anyone who was vocally opposed to gay marriage during my time in Taiwan, but it could be another case of opposition hiding beneath the surface, and then coming out of the woodwork once this issue gets more attention.
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2016, 03:53:05 PM »

Even bigger numbers in Israel. That includes right wing voters, of course.
But it doesn't matter at all- as long as the religious extremist parties (Ultra Orthodox) are in the government, same sex marriage, unfourtunately, will never happen. And for now, it seems like they will be in every concieveable government.
It is obviously not only the haredim (though I agree they are the main opponents), otherwise it could have happened in the previous government. It is also Bayit Yehudi, and not everyone in the Likud supports it either.

The fact that civil marriage would have to be instituted doesn't help. I personally support instituting civil marriage only for same-sex couples, with straight people still having to do it the religious way, but that seems very unlikely (though perhaps something some religious people would not even object to as much as to civil marriage for everyone).

But yeah, unfortunately I am not even sure gay marriage in Israel will ever pass.
Out of interest, what is your reasoning? Why shouldn't straight couples be able to marry in a civil marriage, too? That'd solve problems like a Cohen and divorcee not being able to marry, for example.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2016, 04:09:33 PM »
« Edited: December 25, 2016, 04:15:08 PM by DavidB. »

Out of interest, what is your reasoning? Why shouldn't straight couples be able to marry in a civil marriage, too? That'd solve problems like a Cohen and divorcee not being able to marry, for example.
I think religious Jewish marriage is an important institution that should absolutely be maintained in a Jewish state. At the same time, the state should give same-sex couples the same legal rights as straight couples, including the right to marry. And because of the fact that it is impossible for same-sex couples to marry in a religious ceremony, civil marriage needs to be instated for them. However, it is not needed for straight couples, who can (and should) marry the Jewish way.

I don't think it is a problem that a Cohen and a divorcee cannot marry one another.
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2016, 04:18:22 PM »

Out of interest, what is your reasoning? Why shouldn't straight couples be able to marry in a civil marriage, too? That'd solve problems like a Cohen and divorcee not being able to marry, for example.
I think religious Jewish marriage is an important institution that should absolutely be maintained in a Jewish state. At the same time, the state should give same-sex couples the same legal rights as straight couples, including the right to marry. And because of the fact that it is impossible for same-sex couples to marry in a religious ceremony, civil marriage needs to be instated for them. However, it is not needed for straight couples, who can (and should) marry the Jewish way.

I don't think it is a problem that a Cohen and a divorcee cannot marry one another.

So agnostic or atheist Jews should just remain unmarried? That leads to discrimination of non-religious Jews (and their kids, who lose inheritance rights etc.).
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« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2016, 04:23:52 PM »

Out of interest, what is your reasoning? Why shouldn't straight couples be able to marry in a civil marriage, too? That'd solve problems like a Cohen and divorcee not being able to marry, for example.
I think religious Jewish marriage is an important institution that should absolutely be maintained in a Jewish state. At the same time, the state should give same-sex couples the same legal rights as straight couples, including the right to marry. And because of the fact that it is impossible for same-sex couples to marry in a religious ceremony, civil marriage needs to be instated for them. However, it is not needed for straight couples, who can (and should) marry the Jewish way.

I don't think it is a problem that a Cohen and a divorcee cannot marry one another.

Uh about 20% of Israel's population is not Jewish.

Does civil marriage exist in the Netherlands? Yes. Do you oppose that?
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DavidB.
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« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2016, 04:25:51 PM »
« Edited: December 25, 2016, 04:28:40 PM by DavidB. »

So agnostic or atheist Jews should just remain unmarried? That leads to discrimination of non-religious Jews (and their kids, who lose inheritance rights etc.).
Atheist and agnostic Israeli Jews typically get married in Jewish ceremonies too, and that's perfectly fine, and most of them are perfectly fine with it. If people really object to the Jewish tradition so much that they are not willing to marry Jewish, they are free to get married in Cyprus or leave the Jewish state altogether and live in their beloved "enlightened" Europe Smiley

Uh about 20% of Israel's population is not Jewish.
Yes, and they can marry in Muslim, Christian, Druze etc. ceremonies that are recognized by the state, exactly like Jewish marriage. Nothing's broke, nothing to be fixed.

Does civil marriage exist in the Netherlands? Yes. Do you oppose that?
Yes and no. But the Netherlands is not a Jewish state.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #43 on: December 25, 2016, 04:37:20 PM »

Theocracies are not acceptable in a modern world. If Israel wants to become Saudi Arabia 2.0, that's their issue, but they shouldn't expect any support from the West should the Arabs attack.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #44 on: December 25, 2016, 04:40:03 PM »

Theocracies are not acceptable in a modern world. If Israel wants to become Saudi Arabia 2.0, that's their issue, but they shouldn't expect any support from the West should the Arabs attack.
We don't. In the event that they are that foolish, we can deal with it by ourselves.

By the by, did you contact weed man already about bombing the settlements, big boy?
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BRTD
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« Reply #45 on: December 25, 2016, 04:46:27 PM »
« Edited: December 25, 2016, 04:48:04 PM by Voter #652 »

Uh about 20% of Israel's population is not Jewish.
Yes, and they can marry in Muslim, Christian, Druze etc. ceremonies that are recognized by the state, exactly like Jewish marriage. Nothing's broke, nothing to be fixed.

Does civil marriage exist in the Netherlands? Yes. Do you oppose that?
Yes and no. But the Netherlands is not a Jewish state.

Unless they are not Christian, Druze or Muslim either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion

And the last point contradicts the second. Why should people who are not Jewish not have the right to civil marriage just because they live in a Jewish state?

Also the UK is legally a Christian state yet it has civil marriage law.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #46 on: December 25, 2016, 04:49:52 PM »

Almost all Israelis are. What you don't seem to get is that Christian/Druze/Muslim/Jew doesn't necessarily refer to one's beliefs but more to one's community. And if they don't want to marry in their community's ceremony, tough luck.

And the last point contradicts the second. Why should people who are not Jewish not have the right to civil marriage just because they live in a Jewish state?
People who are not Jewish can marry. If they subsequently choose not to marry in one of the possible religious ceremonies, they should consider relocating.
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BRTD
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« Reply #47 on: December 25, 2016, 04:53:29 PM »
« Edited: December 25, 2016, 04:55:18 PM by Voter #652 »

Yeah "if you don't like having your freedom infringed tough luck" is not something I'll ever agree with. Citizens of all countries should have the same marriage rights as in the US or the Netherlands. Double standards are never acceptable.

And I will NEVER have a Catholic or Orthodox wedding, even if I was born into that. Forcing someone to marry in a religion they don't believe in is f[inks]ing disgusting.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #48 on: December 25, 2016, 04:54:50 PM »

Yet again, theocracies are not acceptable in the modern world, and Israel being a theocracy is totally opposed to the ideals of most of Israel's founders, who knew enough about religious discrimination to not impose it on other people.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #49 on: December 25, 2016, 05:05:28 PM »

Yet again, theocracies are not acceptable in the modern world, and Israel being a theocracy is totally opposed to the ideals of most of Israel's founders, who knew enough about religious discrimination to not impose it on other people.
Antisemitism has nothing to do with "religious discrimination" (and the idea that Israel's founders were so tolerant is laughable anyway) and most of Israel's founders were ideologically totally wrong, even if they had the enormous honor to do what G-d wanted them to do by taking a huge step in the history of the Jewish people and creating the State, for which all Jews should be grateful to them. But their ideals are largely irrelevant, as they should be.

As for brtd, who gives a fck?
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