Next countries to legalize Gay Marriage? (after Colombia)

[MaxQue]

Yet again, theocracies are not acceptable in the modern world, and Israel being a theocracy is totally opposed to the ideals of most of Israel's founders, who knew enough about religious discrimination to not impose it on other people.

Antisemitism has nothing to do with "religious discrimination" (and the idea that Israel's founders were so tolerant is laughable anyway) and most of Israel's founders were ideologically totally wrong, even if they had the enormous honor to do what G-d wanted them to do by taking a huge step in the history of the Jewish people and creating the State, for which all Jews should be grateful to them. But their ideals are largely irrelevant, as they should be.

As for brtd, who gives a fck?

I don't really care about brtd, but my point is, your proposal is pretty much banning trans-community weddings, which is obviously a no-go for most people and reminds of of the miscegenetion laws banning interracial relationships in the USA.

[DavidB.]

I don't really care about brtd, but my point is, your proposal is pretty much banning trans-community weddings, which is obviously a no-go for most people and reminds of of the miscegenetion laws banning interracial relationships in the USA.

Uh, this is not my proposal, this is reality in Israel already. My proposal is to instate civil marriage for gay couples and keep the rest the same. That's it.

But if it's about Israel, apparently advocating the implementation of same-sex marriage is already enough to make our forum's antisemites fume

[MaxQue]

I don't really care about brtd, but my point is, your proposal is pretty much banning trans-community weddings, which is obviously a no-go for most people and reminds of of the miscegenetion laws banning interracial relationships in the USA.

Uh, this is not my proposal, this is reality in Israel already. My proposal is to instate civil marriage for gay couples and keep the rest the same. That's it.

But if it's about Israel, apparently advocating the implementation of same-sex marriage is already enough to make our forum's antisemites fume

Then again, opposing Israel policies doesn't make one antisemite.

[DavidB.]

I don't really care about brtd, but my point is, your proposal is pretty much banning trans-community weddings, which is obviously a no-go for most people and reminds of of the miscegenetion laws banning interracial relationships in the USA.

Uh, this is not my proposal, this is reality in Israel already. My proposal is to instate civil marriage for gay couples and keep the rest the same. That's it.

But if it's about Israel, apparently advocating the implementation of same-sex marriage is already enough to make our forum's antisemites fume

Then again, opposing Israel policies doesn't make one antisemite.

Keep telling yourself that. And you probably have a Jewish friend too?

[Lord Halifax]

So agnostic or atheist Jews should just remain unmarried? That leads to discrimination of non-religious Jews (and their kids, who lose inheritance rights etc.).

Atheist and agnostic Israeli Jews typically get married in Jewish ceremonies too, and that's perfectly fine, and most of them are perfectly fine with it. If people really object to the Jewish tradition so much that they are not willing to marry Jewish, they are free to get married in Cyprus or leave the Jewish state altogether and live in their beloved "enlightened" Europe

Why Europe? That seems like an odd choice. Most European countries do not allow immigration from Israel anyway.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Hysterically, David is basically sounding like some conservative raging against gay marriage in their state pre-Obergefell basically saying if you want to have a gay marriage go do it in a different state or leave. Like how is that any different?

Ironically he wants discrimination in the opposite direction, especially as this would enable only gay couples to marry outside their religion.

[DavidB.]

Ironically he wants discrimination in the opposite direction, especially as this would enable only gay couples to marry outside their religion.

Obviously straight people cannot be discriminated against, didn't you listen to Lena Dunham's latest? Discrimination = prejudice + power, right?

[jaichind]

Now that the ROC Legislature introduced the bill for Gay marriage the swing against it in ROC public opinion seems pretty dramatic.    A pro-DPP think tank which also had Tsai approval/disapproval at 38/44 also had Gay marriage support at 38/56 versus 46/45 back in Nov.



 Of course the fact that now the reality of Gay marriage seems much more real much have created this dynamic.  This poll shows a very polarized  ROC population on this as only around 4% had no opinion on this matter.  Both DPP and KMT on paper are "not opposed" to Gay marriage bill but both seems to tread carefully as public opinion turns against it as well as the fact that both DPP and KMT have social conservative factions within their ranks that they do not want to offend.  It could be that the bill just never gets brought up for the third and final reading or gets water down to civil union.  I think what is turning public opinion against this bill is the prospect that all sort of legal documents which would have said "Husband and Wife" or "Father and Mother" now will just say "Couple" and "Parents."  

[Londoner2016]

Second Tier (by 2020, I'd be surprised if the dominos hadn't fallen)

Greece, Italy, N. Ireland, Austria, Germany, Nepal, Malta, Costa Rica, Estonia

I doubt whether Northern Ireland or Estonia will have marriage equality by 2020 - the latter pretty much needs the DUP to change their mind on the thing at least to the point of allowing a majority vote and that's rather unlikely; and although Estonia is one of the better former Eastern Block countries on LGBT rights (definitely behind Croatia, probably also behind the Czech Republic) I don't think that public opinion will have shifted on the issue enough to legalise marriage equality - the Russian population is still very hostile to registered unions, I'd imagine that support for marriage is even lower.  I can't see the Centre Party supporting the thing - if they did then it'd definitely hurt them amongst the Russian minority and that's a huge part of their vote - and I don't think that there'd be enough support among the "Estonian" parties to get the thing through.  I'm pretty sure that Estonia will legislate it before the other two Baltic states though; Latvia has a much larger Russian population and the Latvian population seems to support LGBT rights less than Estonia (although the most recent polling I could find was a Eurobarometer from 2006); while Lithuania has a terrible record on LGBT rights (they are the only EU country to have a Russian-style "propaganda" law) and support for civil partnerships is sub-10% in the most recent polls that I could find.  I think that the latter is a huge shame: that's admittedly because I've been to the place (uni exchange in Klaipeda: really nice city that I'd recommend going to if you're near, nice beaches which surprised me) and thought that it was an incredibly nice place that I'd go to again, and it'd be only made better if they'd make positive steps forward in this area.

Everywhere else on that list seems plausible - I'm pretty sure that it passed majority support in Germany a fair while ago and its just the CDU/CSU holding the thing up, Italy will get it if Renzi gets a good result in the next election, and the others I can't say anything concrete about because I don't know much about them.  If it was not for the referendum a few years ago I think that you could have put Croatia on that list just based on the good stuff that they've done recently; but I think that its very unlikely there for a fair while because they managed to get a ban in the constitution.

Is there any evidence that ethnic Estonians and Latvians are more supportive of SSM than Russians in those countries?

[Tintrlvr]

Second Tier (by 2020, I'd be surprised if the dominos hadn't fallen)

Greece, Italy, N. Ireland, Austria, Germany, Nepal, Malta, Costa Rica, Estonia

I doubt whether Northern Ireland or Estonia will have marriage equality by 2020 - the latter pretty much needs the DUP to change their mind on the thing at least to the point of allowing a majority vote and that's rather unlikely; and although Estonia is one of the better former Eastern Block countries on LGBT rights (definitely behind Croatia, probably also behind the Czech Republic) I don't think that public opinion will have shifted on the issue enough to legalise marriage equality - the Russian population is still very hostile to registered unions, I'd imagine that support for marriage is even lower.  I can't see the Centre Party supporting the thing - if they did then it'd definitely hurt them amongst the Russian minority and that's a huge part of their vote - and I don't think that there'd be enough support among the "Estonian" parties to get the thing through.  I'm pretty sure that Estonia will legislate it before the other two Baltic states though; Latvia has a much larger Russian population and the Latvian population seems to support LGBT rights less than Estonia (although the most recent polling I could find was a Eurobarometer from 2006); while Lithuania has a terrible record on LGBT rights (they are the only EU country to have a Russian-style "propaganda" law) and support for civil partnerships is sub-10% in the most recent polls that I could find.  I think that the latter is a huge shame: that's admittedly because I've been to the place (uni exchange in Klaipeda: really nice city that I'd recommend going to if you're near, nice beaches which surprised me) and thought that it was an incredibly nice place that I'd go to again, and it'd be only made better if they'd make positive steps forward in this area.

Everywhere else on that list seems plausible - I'm pretty sure that it passed majority support in Germany a fair while ago and its just the CDU/CSU holding the thing up, Italy will get it if Renzi gets a good result in the next election, and the others I can't say anything concrete about because I don't know much about them.  If it was not for the referendum a few years ago I think that you could have put Croatia on that list just based on the good stuff that they've done recently; but I think that its very unlikely there for a fair while because they managed to get a ban in the constitution.

Is there any evidence that ethnic Estonians and Latvians are more supportive of SSM than Russians in those countries?

My understanding is that the issue is more religious - ethnic Estonians are mostly Lutheran (or of Lutheran background; most Estonians are non-religious), and the various Lutheran churches in Europe don't actively oppose LGBT rights, but ethnic Russians are Russian Orthodox, which church is vocally and vociferously anti-LGBT (and ethnic Russians are also much more likely to identify as religious). This is also the case in Latvia, though ethnic Latvians are about equally divided between Lutherans and Catholics rather than mostly Lutheran so less LGBT-friendly than ethnic Estonians. Lithuania is mostly Catholic and thus less LGBT-friendly than Latvia.

[Lord Halifax]

ethnic Latvians are about equally divided between Lutherans and Catholics rather than mostly Lutheran so less LGBT-friendly than ethnic Estonians. Lithuania is mostly Catholic and thus less LGBT-friendly than Latvia.

Not really, it was 34.2% Lutherans and 24.1% Roman Catholics in 2011. Virtually all the Lutherans are Latvians (except a few Germans), while 4% are Polish, Lithuanian and other Catholics. So roughly 33% vs. 20%.

[Tintrlvr]

ethnic Latvians are about equally divided between Lutherans and Catholics rather than mostly Lutheran so less LGBT-friendly than ethnic Estonians. Lithuania is mostly Catholic and thus less LGBT-friendly than Latvia.

Not really, it was 34.2% Lutherans and 24.1% Roman Catholics in 2011. Virtually all the Lutherans are Latvians (except a few Germans), while 4% are Polish, Lithuanian and other Catholics. So roughly 33% vs. 20%.

Fair enough. Still a lot of Catholic ethnic Latvians vs. almost zero Catholic ethnic Estonians, so the point stands.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

Anyone said Slovenia?
http://www.politico.eu/article/slovenia-allows-same-sex-marriage/
Still no adoption

PS: after reading other articles, it's not marriage per second, but rather civil union with every right given by marriage other than adoption

[DavidB.]

Still no Austria. Still no Germany. Merkel sure loves these refugees more than gay people. Still no Israel either; despite the Likud government's hasbara on Tel Aviv as gay destination they aren't willing to walk the walk. Very disappointing. This is not a trivial issue.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Still no Austria. Still no Germany. Merkel sure loves these refugees more than gay people. Still no Israel either; despite the Likud government's hasbara on Tel Aviv as gay destination they aren't willing to walk the walk. Very disappointing. This is not a trivial issue.

You can't expect a government that has any of the Homophobic Triangle of Shas, Torah Judaism and Jewish Home to be a friend to the lgbt community.
And yeah, the fact that there's no same sex marriage in Germany is extremely odd, especially since it's generally one of most pro-lgbt countries.

[MaxQue]

Still no Austria. Still no Germany. Merkel sure loves these refugees more than gay people. Still no Israel either; despite the Likud government's hasbara on Tel Aviv as gay destination they aren't willing to walk the walk. Very disappointing. This is not a trivial issue.

What's the issue?
Religious Christians (OVP)
Religious Christians (CDU)
Orthodox Jews (pretty all parties in power right now but Likud)

[DavidB.]

You can't expect a government that has any of the Homophobic Triangle of Shas, Torah Judaism and Jewish Home to be a friend to the lgbt community.

I don't expect anything else. In fact, I don't expect SSM to ever pass in Israel. Doesn't make it any less disappointing (and probably much more so to you than to me, as I can get married here if I want). Likud should just push for a free vote on it.

Religious Christians (CDU)
Orthodox Jews (pretty all parties in power right now but Likud)

In Germany it's more the CSU than the CDU, though both don't want it. In Israel, coalition parties Yisrael Beiteinu and Kulanu support SSM too, as far as I know. Only Shas, UTJ and BY oppose it.

[Tender Branson]

You can't expect a government that has any of the Homophobic Triangle of Shas, Torah Judaism and Jewish Home to be a friend to the lgbt community.

I don't expect anything else. In fact, I don't expect SSM to ever pass in Israel. Doesn't make it any less disappointing (and probably much more so to you than to me, as I can get married here if I want). Likud should just push for a free vote on it.

Religious Christians (OVP)
Religious Christians (CDU)
Orthodox Jews (pretty all parties in power right now but Likud)

In Germany it's more the CSU than the CDU, though both don't want it. In Israel, coalition parties Yisrael Beiteinu and Kulanu support SSM too, as far as I know. Only Shas, UTJ and BY oppose it.

Here it is more a generational and urban/rural divide within the ÖVP that's preventing full marriage rights. Young and urban ÖVP-folks generally back gay marriage by a wide margin (if they have not moved over to NEOS yet), even rural young ÖVP-voters do. But rural older folk (and there are still many around) are against it.

And as long as the ÖVP (or the FPÖ) is in charge of something, this won't change. The best you can hope for here is full rights for LGBT's similar to heteros, just that it isn't called "marriage" ...

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

FINLAND just legalized it!!

After being approved by the parliament on 12 December 2014 and signed by the President on 20 February 2015

It's weird