Next countries to legalize Gay Marriage? (after Colombia)

[DavidB.]

First Tier (pretty likely within the next one or two years, or otherwise "inevitable"):

Rest of Mexico, Taiwan, Australia, Switzerland, Costa Rica, Faroe Islands,

Second Tier (by 2020, I'd be surprised if the dominos hadn't fallen)

Greece, Italy, N. Ireland, Austria, Germany, Nepal, Malta, Costa Rica, Estonia

Third Tier: Wild-cards

Japan, S. Korea, Albania, Thailand, Israel (civil marriage would have to be enacted first), Vietnam, Ecuador, Venezuela, Chile (!), Bolivia (would have to be done via constitution though, so rather unlikely), Ecuador (same), Rest of EU, Cuba

Why Switzerland?

[DavidB.]

Even bigger numbers in Israel. That includes right wing voters, of course.
But it doesn't matter at all- as long as the religious extremist parties (Ultra Orthodox) are in the government, same sex marriage, unfourtunately, will never happen. And for now, it seems like they will be in every concieveable government.

It is obviously not only the haredim (though I agree they are the main opponents), otherwise it could have happened in the previous government. It is also Bayit Yehudi, and not everyone in the Likud supports it either.

The fact that civil marriage would have to be instituted doesn't help. I personally support instituting civil marriage only for same-sex couples, with straight people still having to do it the religious way, but that seems very unlikely (though perhaps something some religious people would not even object to as much as to civil marriage for everyone).

But yeah, unfortunately I am not even sure gay marriage in Israel will ever pass.

[DavidB.]

Out of interest, what is your reasoning? Why shouldn't straight couples be able to marry in a civil marriage, too? That'd solve problems like a Cohen and divorcee not being able to marry, for example.

I think religious Jewish marriage is an important institution that should absolutely be maintained in a Jewish state. At the same time, the state should give same-sex couples the same legal rights as straight couples, including the right to marry. And because of the fact that it is impossible for same-sex couples to marry in a religious ceremony, civil marriage needs to be instated for them. However, it is not needed for straight couples, who can (and should) marry the Jewish way.

I don't think it is a problem that a Cohen and a divorcee cannot marry one another.

[DavidB.]

So agnostic or atheist Jews should just remain unmarried? That leads to discrimination of non-religious Jews (and their kids, who lose inheritance rights etc.).

Atheist and agnostic Israeli Jews typically get married in Jewish ceremonies too, and that's perfectly fine, and most of them are perfectly fine with it. If people really object to the Jewish tradition so much that they are not willing to marry Jewish, they are free to get married in Cyprus or leave the Jewish state altogether and live in their beloved "enlightened" Europe

Uh about 20% of Israel's population is not Jewish.

Yes, and they can marry in Muslim, Christian, Druze etc. ceremonies that are recognized by the state, exactly like Jewish marriage. Nothing's broke, nothing to be fixed.

Does civil marriage exist in the Netherlands? Yes. Do you oppose that?

Yes and no. But the Netherlands is not a Jewish state.

[DavidB.]

Theocracies are not acceptable in a modern world. If Israel wants to become Saudi Arabia 2.0, that's their issue, but they shouldn't expect any support from the West should the Arabs attack.

We don't. In the event that they are that foolish, we can deal with it by ourselves.

By the by, did you contact weed man already about bombing the settlements, big boy?

[DavidB.]

Unless they are not Christian, Druze or Muslim either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion

Almost all Israelis are. What you don't seem to get is that Christian/Druze/Muslim/Jew doesn't necessarily refer to one's beliefs but more to one's community. And if they don't want to marry in their community's ceremony, tough luck.

And the last point contradicts the second. Why should people who are not Jewish not have the right to civil marriage just because they live in a Jewish state?

People who are not Jewish can marry. If they subsequently choose not to marry in one of the possible religious ceremonies, they should consider relocating.

[DavidB.]

Yet again, theocracies are not acceptable in the modern world, and Israel being a theocracy is totally opposed to the ideals of most of Israel's founders, who knew enough about religious discrimination to not impose it on other people.

Antisemitism has nothing to do with "religious discrimination" (and the idea that Israel's founders were so tolerant is laughable anyway) and most of Israel's founders were ideologically totally wrong, even if they had the enormous honor to do what G-d wanted them to do by taking a huge step in the history of the Jewish people and creating the State, for which all Jews should be grateful to them. But their ideals are largely irrelevant, as they should be.

As for brtd, who gives a fck?

[DavidB.]

I don't really care about brtd, but my point is, your proposal is pretty much banning trans-community weddings, which is obviously a no-go for most people and reminds of of the miscegenetion laws banning interracial relationships in the USA.

Uh, this is not my proposal, this is reality in Israel already. My proposal is to instate civil marriage for gay couples and keep the rest the same. That's it.

But if it's about Israel, apparently advocating the implementation of same-sex marriage is already enough to make our forum's antisemites fume

[DavidB.]

I don't really care about brtd, but my point is, your proposal is pretty much banning trans-community weddings, which is obviously a no-go for most people and reminds of of the miscegenetion laws banning interracial relationships in the USA.

Uh, this is not my proposal, this is reality in Israel already. My proposal is to instate civil marriage for gay couples and keep the rest the same. That's it.

But if it's about Israel, apparently advocating the implementation of same-sex marriage is already enough to make our forum's antisemites fume

Then again, opposing Israel policies doesn't make one antisemite.

Keep telling yourself that. And you probably have a Jewish friend too?

[DavidB.]

Ironically he wants discrimination in the opposite direction, especially as this would enable only gay couples to marry outside their religion.

Obviously straight people cannot be discriminated against, didn't you listen to Lena Dunham's latest? Discrimination = prejudice + power, right?

[DavidB.]

Still no Austria. Still no Germany. Merkel sure loves these refugees more than gay people. Still no Israel either; despite the Likud government's hasbara on Tel Aviv as gay destination they aren't willing to walk the walk. Very disappointing. This is not a trivial issue.

[DavidB.]

You can't expect a government that has any of the Homophobic Triangle of Shas, Torah Judaism and Jewish Home to be a friend to the lgbt community.

I don't expect anything else. In fact, I don't expect SSM to ever pass in Israel. Doesn't make it any less disappointing (and probably much more so to you than to me, as I can get married here if I want). Likud should just push for a free vote on it.

Religious Christians (CDU)
Orthodox Jews (pretty all parties in power right now but Likud)

In Germany it's more the CSU than the CDU, though both don't want it. In Israel, coalition parties Yisrael Beiteinu and Kulanu support SSM too, as far as I know. Only Shas, UTJ and BY oppose it.