NDP Leadership Convention 2017

[RogueBeaver]

Mulcair confirmed caucus supports him as lame-duck leader in a post-caucus scrum ATM.

[King of Kensington]

When you are an opposition politician and the government of the day brings in a policy that is wildly unpopular in the riding you represent - but where you and your party are actually supportive of the substance of that policy - then the logical thing to do it is to attack the government for incompetently managing the issue and failing to bring stakeholders onside etc...

Do you seriously think an NDP government would have done it in a more "consultative" manner?

[Hatman 🍁]

When you are an opposition politician and the government of the day brings in a policy that is wildly unpopular in the riding you represent - but where you and your party are actually supportive of the substance of that policy - then the logical thing to do it is to attack the government for incompetently managing the issue and failing to bring stakeholders onside etc...

Do you seriously think an NDP government would have done it in a more "consultative" manner?

The Ontario NDP? Probably. It has much more of a populist streak behind it.

[DL]

here we go again with people floating names of unilingual anglophones (ie: Darrel Dexter, Maureen McDonald, Peter Stoffer, Jack Harris...). When will this idiocy end. No French = 100% DISQUALIFICATION

[DC Al Fine]

If Megan Leslie is out, than perhaps Yvon Godin as an Atlantic candidate?

Dexter would be a disaster. He is the Bob Rae of Nova Scotia.

Maybe, but he retired last year so I doubt he'd come back. Stoffer has already said no, Harris or Chisholm?, maybe. I think the problem with Harris and Chisholm is their lack of French, Chisholm admitted it last time and bowed out.

Megan Leslie has just announced she's not running.

[King of Kensington]

The Ontario NDP? Probably. It has much more of a populist streak behind it.

Campaigning as populists and governing as populists aren't necessarily the same thing.

There are many reasons to dislike Kathleen Wynne's government but the sex-ed curriculum isn't one of them.

[DC Al Fine]

When you are an opposition politician and the government of the day brings in a policy that is wildly unpopular in the riding you represent - but where you and your party are actually supportive of the substance of that policy - then the logical thing to do it is to attack the government for incompetently managing the issue and failing to bring stakeholders onside etc...

Do you seriously think an NDP government would have done it in a more "consultative" manner?

That's not relevant to the issue though. As DL says, if the government gives you an opening as an opposition pol, you take it, regardless of what you may or may not do in government.

[136or142]

When you are an opposition politician and the government of the day brings in a policy that is wildly unpopular in the riding you represent - but where you and your party are actually supportive of the substance of that policy - then the logical thing to do it is to attack the government for incompetently managing the issue and failing to bring stakeholders onside etc...

Do you seriously think an NDP government would have done it in a more "consultative" manner?

The Ontario NDP? Probably. It has much more of a populist streak behind it.

How do you consult with people who say they dislike the changes but can't explain what they dislike about them? (and that has nothing to do with any potential language problems) or,  if they can explain them, their views essentially come down to 'I don't believe sex education should be taught in school.'

Consultations are one thing, but elections have consequences and not all opinions are equally valid.

[136or142]

When you are an opposition politician and the government of the day brings in a policy that is wildly unpopular in the riding you represent - but where you and your party are actually supportive of the substance of that policy - then the logical thing to do it is to attack the government for incompetently managing the issue and failing to bring stakeholders onside etc...

Do you seriously think an NDP government would have done it in a more "consultative" manner?

That's not relevant to the issue though. As DL says, if the government gives you an opening as an opposition pol, you take it, regardless of what you may or may not do in government.

I think this is old style politics that that leads to promising to be everything to everyone and results in disillusionment and cynicism when the opposition becomes government. 

[DL]

There is actually a theory that the Ontario purposely "mishandled" the sex education file because they wanted it to be as controversial as possible. They wanted it to become a wedge issue that they could use against the PCs so they did minimal consultations and went out of their way to provoke a reaction. I don't usually go for these crazy conspiracy theories but the Ontario liberals sre such a cynical and corrupt party that i wouldnt put it past them.

Anyways, its all water under the bridge, the curriculum is in place, the protests have petered out and even Patrick Brown of the PCs is now avoiding the issue. Its over.

Now after that huge segue let's get back to the federal NDP leadership contest

[lilTommy]

There is actually a theory that the Ontario purposely "mishandled" the sex education file because they wanted it to be as controversial as possible. They wanted it to become a wedge issue that they could use against the PCs so they did minimal consultations and went out of their way to provoke a reaction. I don't usually go for these crazy conspiracy theories but the Ontario liberals sre such a cynical and corrupt party that i wouldnt put it past them.

Anyways, its all water under the bridge, the curriculum is in place, the protests have petered out and even Patrick Brown of the PCs is now avoiding the issue. Its over.

Now after that huge segue let's get back to the federal NDP leadership contest

and with all that, Yes Jagmeet Singh could be a potential leadership candidate.
That leads us to deep dive into Provincial parties... whom from any provincial NDP could/might jump to federal politics?

[136or142]

There is actually a theory that the Ontario purposely "mishandled" the sex education file because they wanted it to be as controversial as possible. They wanted it to become a wedge issue that they could use against the PCs so they did minimal consultations and went out of their way to provoke a reaction. I don't usually go for these crazy conspiracy theories but the Ontario liberals sre such a cynical and corrupt party that i wouldnt put it past them.

Anyways, its all water under the bridge, the curriculum is in place, the protests have petered out and even Patrick Brown of the PCs is now avoiding the issue. Its over.

Now after that huge segue let's get back to the federal NDP leadership contest

and with all that, Yes Jagmeet Singh could be a potential leadership candidate.
That leads us to deep dive into Provincial parties... whom from any provincial NDP could/might jump to federal politics?

I'm sure Greg Selinger speaks French as he's likely to be out of his day job in a couple weeks

[King of Kensington]

Which opposition party is in a biggest crisis, the NDP or the Conservatives?

My guess is the NDP supporters here will say it's the Conservatives and the Conservative supporters will say it's the NDP.

[DC Al Fine]

Which opposition party is in a biggest crisis, the NDP or the Conservatives?

My guess is the NDP supporters here will say it's the Conservatives and the Conservative supporters will say it's the NDP.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

The NDP, without a doubt. I cannot think of any potential leaders who convey the sense that they could one day be Prime Minister. That's kind of simple-minded, I know, but also pretty troubling.

[King of Kensington]

Yeah, the Conservatives still have about 30% of the vote that they basically "own."

The NDP are largely competing with the Liberals in the same space.  Staying in a centrist position could allow them to be swamped by the Liberals, but taking a left turn could have its challenges as well.  They blew their once in a generation shot at government.  Certainly they're going to have to go through a real soul-searching and renewal.

[King of Kensington]

Gerry Caplan - who Brad Lavigne boasted about "proving wrong" in his book - raises some good points here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/can-the-ndp-ever-be-taken-seriously-as-a-national-government/article29591530/

[Hatman 🍁]

The NDP will be fine guys. All it will take is for the Liberals to  up again, and those promiscuous progressives will be back. Alternatively, a Sandersesque/Obamaesque leader could galvanize progressives as well. There'll always be an attraction for a social democratic party. Just because the NDP is polling at 10% doesn't mean it's going to be forever like that. Trudeau is very popular right now; we have to be patient.

[lilTommy]

The NDP will be fine guys. All it will take is for the Liberals to  up again, and those promiscuous progressives will be back. Alternatively, a Sandersesque/Obamaesque leader could galvanize progressives as well. There'll always be an attraction for a social democratic party. Just because the NDP is polling at 10% doesn't mean it's going to be forever like that. Trudeau is very popular right now; we have to be patient.

Just to add more to what Hatman said, there an actually decent article in Macleans http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/why-the-ndps-past-is-never-dead/
the NDP has always had these internals, since the party was formed almost. They mention 1972 and 1989 were the last big ones (2003 with Jack Layton was more personality but i'd say still power (old guard with Blaikie) vs principles (new school) with Layton) where these "principals vs power" battles come up.

[Hatman 🍁]

I can recall that the NDP had a huge existentialist crisis back in 2003 too.

[DL]

...and in the wake of the 2011 election the news papers were full of doom and gloom columns on the "death of Liberal Canada" etc...

[Vega]

...and in the wake of the 2011 election the news papers were full of doom and gloom columns on the "death of Liberal Canada" etc...

I honestly don't think you can compare the two situations. The Liberals were a historically treasured party who, at that point, had recently been in office for over a decade.

[DL]

Yes but there are many examples in canadian and Britsih history of once dominant parties being wiped out. Whatever happened to Social Credit that ruled BC for all but three years 1952 to 1991? The Union Nationale in Quebec went from being government in 1970 to 0 seats in 1973 and are now a dead party.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The Canadian electorate is incredibly volatile, polls are not elections and the present government's honeymoon will not last forever.

[King of Kensington]

Getting rid of Mulcair was the right decision.  If he stayed on there would have been no real soul-searching and he would have ran an "I told you so" campaign in 2019.  He had an insufferable hubris.

No doubt there's a social democratic constituency in Canada - with the Liberals again being the "big" center-left party the NDP has to move a bit leftward.  Not to the hard left, but something like Sanders or Ed Broadbent-type social democracy.