NDP Leadership Convention 2017

[King of Kensington]

Wow.  What a repudiation.

I like the idea of Niki Ashton leading the party.

[King of Kensington]

I don't think Angus speaks French. 

[King of Kensington]

The 2003 race was basically nonideological.  

Layton won because he was bilingual and media-savvy not because was to the left or right of Blaikie.

[King of Kensington]

Unfortunately, yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMGQZSecdFc

It's mostly in Panjabi so I can't understand what he's saying but he's speaking to an anti-sex ed group.

[King of Kensington]

When you are an opposition politician and the government of the day brings in a policy that is wildly unpopular in the riding you represent - but where you and your party are actually supportive of the substance of that policy - then the logical thing to do it is to attack the government for incompetently managing the issue and failing to bring stakeholders onside etc...

Do you seriously think an NDP government would have done it in a more "consultative" manner?

[King of Kensington]

The Ontario NDP? Probably. It has much more of a populist streak behind it.

Campaigning as populists and governing as populists aren't necessarily the same thing.

There are many reasons to dislike Kathleen Wynne's government but the sex-ed curriculum isn't one of them.

[King of Kensington]

Which opposition party is in a biggest crisis, the NDP or the Conservatives?

My guess is the NDP supporters here will say it's the Conservatives and the Conservative supporters will say it's the NDP.

[King of Kensington]

Yeah, the Conservatives still have about 30% of the vote that they basically "own."

The NDP are largely competing with the Liberals in the same space.  Staying in a centrist position could allow them to be swamped by the Liberals, but taking a left turn could have its challenges as well.  They blew their once in a generation shot at government.  Certainly they're going to have to go through a real soul-searching and renewal.

[King of Kensington]

Gerry Caplan - who Brad Lavigne boasted about "proving wrong" in his book - raises some good points here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/can-the-ndp-ever-be-taken-seriously-as-a-national-government/article29591530/

[King of Kensington]

Getting rid of Mulcair was the right decision.  If he stayed on there would have been no real soul-searching and he would have ran an "I told you so" campaign in 2019.  He had an insufferable hubris.

No doubt there's a social democratic constituency in Canada - with the Liberals again being the "big" center-left party the NDP has to move a bit leftward.  Not to the hard left, but something like Sanders or Ed Broadbent-type social democracy.

[King of Kensington]

They mention 1972 and 1989 were the last big ones (2003 with Jack Layton was more personality but i'd say still power (old guard with Blaikie) vs principles (new school) with Layton) where these "principals vs power" battles come up.

I don't think Audrey McLaughlin vs. Dave Barrett was a left/right or "principles vs. power" split.  In some ways it was an earlier version of Layton/Blaikie - with a more "modern" and "post-materialist" appeal vs. "old guard."  The former put more emphasis into appealing to the young, to social movements, Quebec etc.

Of course Layton turned out to be a much better leader.

[King of Kensington]

I think Steven Langdon was the "leftiest" candidate, a mantle another Windsor MP, Joe Comartin, took up in 2003.

[King of Kensington]

In some ways McLaughlin v. Barrett was also an east/west split and a gender split.  McLaughlin's support was as you said, but she was also strongly backed by the Ontario NDP establishment.  I think they regarded Barrett as too much of a potential loose cannon and some were concerned about the party being even more dominated by westerners as at that time 19 of the 44 members of the caucus were from British Columbia.  Although McLaughlin was the M.P for Yukon, she had been a long time resident of Ontario and was apparently fairly well established in Ontario NDP circles.

Layton was backed by most of the Ontario establishment too, while MPs mostly backed their colleague Blaikie.

The Lewises really disliked Barrett.

[King of Kensington]

Heh, forgot why I came to this thread to post in the first place. There is a new name in the mix that I don't believe has been mentioned on this thread.  The two journalist membe panel on the CBC program 'the House' both mentioned that Jack Layton's son, Mike Layton, was interested in seeking the leadership.

Why?  Not to be too harsh (I don't dislike Mike) but what does he offer besides having his father's last name?  And does he even speak French?

[King of Kensington]

1.) I don't think Mike is interested

2.) Justin Trudeau is bilingual and had served as an MP

3.) I thought NDP partisans loved to sneer at "Liberal dynasties"

[King of Kensington]

I'm obviously not Canadian and very far from being an NDPer, but...wouldn't Nathan Cullen an extremely logical choice, if he runs? I've also heard next to no speculation about Topp, who came in a very strong second last time, though I suppose now isn't the time for the NDP to choose someone who isn't an MP, considering how few places there are where a by-election would be safe for them.

Cullen would certainly be a major contender.  He's a continuation of Mulcair's politics but with a much more pleasant personality.  He's also from BC and would be the first leader from there.

[King of Kensington]

Yes, the NDP base was very much divided on Charlottetown.  Some argue that by supporting it, the NDP was seen as just another "establishment party." 

To what extent could Barrett have staved off Reform in BC?

In reality, I don't think any leader could have done well in 1993 - with the massive unpopularity of the Rae government and the divide over Charlottetown. 

Barrett certainly had his negatives too and who knows what long-term impact his attitude towards Quebec could have had.

[King of Kensington]

Agree, I think Western alienation and resentment against "Toronto elites" is ultimately conservative.  But in Canada, regional politics trumps class politics.

[King of Kensington]

Yes, and too much like Trudeau.

[King of Kensington]

To a surprising number of NDP members, being on the left just means "able to give a good speech and communicate well and having good emotional intelligence" while being a "centrist" is just code for being a dull technocrat.

I think there's a good deal of truth to that. 

In some ways that's why Obama was considered more "left-wing" than Hillary Clinton in 2008, even though there's no real ideological difference between them.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It wasn't.  It was more detailed than 2011, which wasn't a campaign about policy at all, but most of the "ambitious and progressive" stuff appeared in 2008.

The "most ambitious and progressive platform in 20 years" line came from the union leaders supporting Mulcair in defense of his leadership.

And let's not forget that the platform didn't even appear until just before (Canadian) Thanksgiving, long after the basic tone of the campaign had been set.
 

[King of Kensington]

I think the NDP has been 100% pro-choice since Ed Broadbent was leader in the 80s.

[King of Kensington]

Part of this stems from the history of the party. Labour parties in a lot of countries had a Catholic worker element, so there was usually room for a small pro-life wing. The main religious influence on the NDP has always been social gospel Protestants, which as you know, aren't the most pro-life lot.

The most prominent pro-life NDPer I can think of was the Manitoba Cabinet minister Joe Borowski.  The Schreyer NDP won by appealing to ethnic, Catholic and to some extent rural voters.  Still, Borowski was too controversial for the NDP of the time and he left the party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Borowski_(politician)

(Ironically Schreyer himself made very homophobic comments when Svend Robinson came out in the 80s, and he never really apologized for them).

[King of Kensington]

Angus will have a lot of appeal to the traditional base - as he can resonate with blue collar workers in the hinterland as well as urban progressives.

At this point, a 2008-type showing would be an accomplishment.

But yeah, his poor French isn't going to cut it.

[King of Kensington]

The quote inside a quote inside a quote thing is getting a bit annoying.

[King of Kensington]

I get being culturally Jewish or culturally Catholic, but what does it mean to be a "cultural United Churcher"?