How conservative megadonors built a shadow GOP that weakened the official party

[Virginiá]

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/14/11348780/gop-megadonors-koch-brothers

Article is worth reading. It basically talks about how the Koch brothers and other groups are sucking the life out of the Republican party and supplanting it with their own organizations. When you consider what the Koch agenda is, this is pretty much a corporate takeover. It's bound to fail imo, and will continue to screw up the GOP in the process. You can't have a party and a shadow party operating like this, or you get the results we've been seeing: An utter lack of ability to govern and pathetic inability to maintain a positive brand.

I bet Republican party elites are going to start regretting Citizens United if this keeps up. Some worthy images from the article:

[Antonio the Sixth]

This has been building up for a long time. It's only the logical conclusion of the conservative infrastructure that Big Money and "movement conservatives " have started building back in the 1970s.

[Virginiá]

This has been building up for a long time. It's only the logical conclusion of the conservative infrastructure that Big Money and "movement conservatives " have started building back in the 1970s.

The great thing (imo) is just how out of step the Koch agenda is with the American people. Americans would be appalled if the Kochs managed to get even half their wishlist instituted. That's why I find this particularly noteworthy - We have two organizations (RNC/AFP) operating with the same set of voters here, and AFP's vision of America is sure to lead Republicans down a path of ruin should they continue to amass power. You try telling that to some wealthy rich people like Charles and David, though, who are essentially cut off from the 99% and live in a fantasy land where profits are the only reason for living.

At any rate, if they want to cannibalize their own, so be it. It'll only hasten the arrival of a long sought-after enduring Democratic governing majority.

Vox complains about how the country is going to the right, and then makes a completely wrong tax calculator to attack Bernie from the right? Joke site.

Oh my god just go away. Everything revolves around Bernie, eh? This thread has absolutely nothing to do with him, so bug off you half-rate Sanders shill.

[All Along The Watchtower]

IMHO, the disconnect between the GOP politicians that are bankrolled by right-wing megadonors and the Republican Party's voter base has created a power vacuum that Donald Trump has exploited. It's not just the RNC's desire to soften the GOP's image and increase their appeal to women, minorities, and young people that is driving the disconnect; it's also the fact that the Republican Establishment is literally controlled by a handful of very, very wealthy individuals who have vastly different priorities from most Americans (including most Republican voters).

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Vox complains about how the country is going to the right, and then makes a completely wrong tax calculator to attack Bernie from the right? Joke site.

Oh my god just go away. Everything revolves around Bernie, eh? This thread has absolutely nothing to do with him, so bug off you half-rate Sanders shill.

Moved to its own thread.

[Landslide Lyndon]

IMHO, the disconnect between the GOP politicians that are bankrolled by right-wing megadonors and the Republican Party's voter base has created a power vacuum that Donald Trump has exploited. It's not just the RNC's desire to soften the GOP's image and increase their appeal to women, minorities, and young people that is driving the disconnect; it's also the fact that the Republican Establishment is literally controlled by a handful of very, very wealthy individuals who have vastly different priorities from most Americans (including most Republican voters).

It was mentioned on CNN by Paul Begala, IIRC, that unlike Republican megadonors the Democratic ones have the same concerns as the base of the party: climate change, gay rights, health care, etc.
That's a big reason why there is no discord between the Democratic party and its voters/activists.

[Vosem]

It's worked out decently so far, unless you somehow think this thing caused the _trump phenomenon.

[Virginiá]

It's worked out decently so far, unless you somehow think this thing caused the _trump phenomenon.

Well, I like to think of it like farmers in California sucking water out of their aquifer while in drought conditions. It works out fine, ....until it doesn't, and then there is a severe water shortage in those places too.

Having your party become essentially corporate-owned makes it a lot less flexible in regards to changing public opinion. The Kochs have an extreme vision for America, significantly lower taxes/no taxes and massive deregulation being some of it. This is the wrong time for a party to be taken over by such people, as inequality and the rich gaming the system has become the defining issue of our time. The Republican party has already effectively lost the Millennial generation and the Koch machine is just getting started. How are they supposed to continue winning into the future if they continue to solidify their image as the party of the rich?

Their saving grace right now is that decades of Republican presidents (Eisenhower - Reagan, while GWB ended that era) and a sea change in public stances on certain issues created about a generation and a half's worth of Republican-leaning voters that is powering their current coalition, but the majority of which is over age 45 - 55.

They need to adapt, and this will hinder that significantly.

[Virginiá]

If the koch brothers actually got what they wanted, we would have a libertarian gop. Try again

See, things like this don't happen overnight. It's not like the Kochs are the only ones trying to push their own agenda. I don't think anyone said the takeover was complete or even near complete, but it's pretty clear that AFP and other related groups are surpassing (or on their way) and overtaking the GOP in terms of organization, operations and funding. I suspect they aren't dumb either, if you want to push that kind of trash agenda, you have to do it slowly and not drop it like a bomb on everyone.

Thanks, though. I was actually looking for a decent discussion on this. If I wanted a thread where the only thing that happens is people leaving short, rude posts with no substantiation of their smug assumptions, I would have gone to reddit.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

AFP is massive. I worked for it, and it was quite the experience. We had by-weekly conference calls, "messaging" seminars, etc. It was like working for a massive corporation. They also literally have GLA (Grassroots Leadership Academy) classes that turns Tea Partiers into professional activists. It's quite effective.

[Virginiá]

AFP is massive. I worked for it, and it was quite the experience. We had by-weekly conference calls, "messaging" seminars, etc. It was like working for a massive corporation. They also literally have GLA (Grassroots Leadership Academy) classes that turns Tea Partiers into professional activists. It's quite effective.

Aha! An insider! That does sound impressive. Would you say the premise of the article is somewhat accurate? This article was mostly about numbers, so it's hard to gauge from that how things are actually working on the inside and their effect on the outside.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

LOL more anti-Koch fear mongering by the loony left, not really surprised though. We can't have those big bad Koch's doing anything now can we?

[Virginiá]

LOL more anti-Koch fear mongering by the loony left, not really surprised though. We can't have those big bad Koch's doing anything now can we?

Well to be fair, I'm only interested in how right-wing organizations are marginalizing the Republican party's organization. Divided operations like this don't tend to work out well. I'm not actually afraid of their potential, because I know this country is moving left and in a number of years, they won't have enough voters to bring their agenda forward. In fact, it's debatable whether they have them now.

Simply put, AFP & friends came late to the party and all they are going to do is hurt Republican electoral success, not help it.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

LOL more anti-Koch fear mongering by the loony left, not really surprised though. We can't have those big bad Koch's doing anything now can we?

Well to be fair, I'm only interested in how right-wing organizations are marginalizing the Republican party's organization. Divided operations like this don't tend to work out well. I'm not actually afraid of their potential, because I know this country is moving left and in a number of years, they won't have enough voters to bring their agenda forward. In fact, it's debatable whether they have them now.

Simply put, AFP & friends came late to the party and all they are going to do is hurt Republican electoral success, not help it.

Socially maybe....but the Koch's are not social conservatives, David Koch who was as the VP candidate for the Libertarian party back in the day supports Pot Legalization, SSM, ending the War on Drugs, Criminal Justice Reform, you know, things Democrats actually support but yet demonize the Koch's for?

[Virginiá]

LOL more anti-Koch fear mongering by the loony left, not really surprised though. We can't have those big bad Koch's doing anything now can we?

Well to be fair, I'm only interested in how right-wing organizations are marginalizing the Republican party's organization. Divided operations like this don't tend to work out well. I'm not actually afraid of their potential, because I know this country is moving left and in a number of years, they won't have enough voters to bring their agenda forward. In fact, it's debatable whether they have them now.

Simply put, AFP & friends came late to the party and all they are going to do is hurt Republican electoral success, not help it.

Socially maybe....but the Koch's are not social conservatives, David Koch who was as the VP candidate for the Libertarian party back in the day supports Pot Legalization, SSM, ending the War on Drugs, Criminal Justice Reform, you know, things Democrats actually support but yet demonize the Koch's for?

Socially, yes, fiscally, I see a far more moderate view in this. The Republican party as a whole, right now, is just on the wrong side of too many issues. The issue I find with the Kochs is that they represent the boogeyman of the very issues this generation is being shaped around - Inequality, corporate greed and the wealthy elite gaming the system. Every generation has their own prominent issues, like less government was of the past generation, whereas this generation is focused on inequality.

However to clarify, when I say moving left, I also mean that Millennials, as the successor generation to the boomers/genx, is overwhelmingly Democratic - Even white Millennials are much more open to Democrats than their elders. Not all of them will stay that way, but it's pretty clear at this point that there will be a couple of decades at least where people like the Kochs will be hindered in their success by virtue of them being the corporate/wealthy boogeymen Millennials despise.

And yes, the Kochs do share some views of Democrats, but imo, the Koch agenda seems like a nice, tasty desert that was baked with rat poison. Sure, it has things like you said, but it also comes with policies designed to shift power and money to the wealthy, furthering inequality and putting everyone else at a disadvantage. Kochs only want such "economic freedom" because it benefits them.

So no surprise there, the Kochs have never truly had to deal with the problems regular people have. They have always seen life through million-dollar lenses.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

LOL more anti-Koch fear mongering by the loony left, not really surprised though. We can't have those big bad Koch's doing anything now can we?

Well to be fair, I'm only interested in how right-wing organizations are marginalizing the Republican party's organization. Divided operations like this don't tend to work out well. I'm not actually afraid of their potential, because I know this country is moving left and in a number of years, they won't have enough voters to bring their agenda forward. In fact, it's debatable whether they have them now.

Simply put, AFP & friends came late to the party and all they are going to do is hurt Republican electoral success, not help it.

Disagree. I think AFP's massive GOTV effort was a major component in Governor Scott's reelection. The fact that so many in the RPOF (where by Atlas standards I'm also an "insider" due to my internship, I guess) hate them is a sign of their growing power.

My boss put it very bluntly: AFP is the RPOF's "asshole" friend. They are the Eric Cartman to the RPOF's Stan Marsh.

[Virginiá]

LOL more anti-Koch fear mongering by the loony left, not really surprised though. We can't have those big bad Koch's doing anything now can we?

Well to be fair, I'm only interested in how right-wing organizations are marginalizing the Republican party's organization. Divided operations like this don't tend to work out well. I'm not actually afraid of their potential, because I know this country is moving left and in a number of years, they won't have enough voters to bring their agenda forward. In fact, it's debatable whether they have them now.

Simply put, AFP & friends came late to the party and all they are going to do is hurt Republican electoral success, not help it.

Disagree. I think AFP's massive GOTV effort was a major component in Governor Scott's reelection. The fact that so many in the RPOF (where by Atlas standards I'm also an "insider" due to my internship, I guess) hate them is a sign of their growing power.

My boss put it very bluntly: AFP is the RPOF's "asshole" friend. They are the Eric Cartman to the RPOF's Stan Marsh.

Well I meant more in terms of federal power. No matter what a majority of the country believes in or who they vote for, there will always be a lot of states that are for one party or another. For instance, after the country began marching right in the 70s/80s, some states began flipping to Democrats, while others to Republicans. Likewise, no matter how liberal the country gets, certain states will remain Republican. So I don't doubt that AFP can assist at the state level pretty handily in some areas.

But in terms of Congress and the White House, if AFP/outside organizations can't find a mutually symbiotic way to work with the Republican party to achieve their goals, they will be handicapped when it comes to certain races. The issue I see is that each organization has some different priorities. AFP may want to adjust in regards to social issues, but factions of the GOP won't, and so on. They can't really afford to have dysfunction and internal struggles right now because the explosion of the minority population and the more Democratic Millennials means Republicans have to do better with a shrinking set of voters.

And that's a great comparison lol (south park).

[Simfan34]

For starters, ALEC needs to be centralized within the RNC. The party does need to be strengthened to prevent the rise of "activist" kooks and loons. Other ideas to strengthen the party:

-Create a central membership and charge annual dues. 30 million paying $10 will raise $300 million a year. $30 and a few more and you get $1 billion a year, etc. This will increase the party's clout in the financing game, the RNC by comparison raised just $105 million in 2015.
-Support campaign finance reform (esp. w/r/t outside contributions) to limit influence of donors
-Limit the amount of outside contributions primary candidates can accept and more generally money that can be spent in primaries
-Require French-style nominations by elected officials for primary and presidential candidates
-Give the RNC power to disqualify primary candidates in "extraordinary" situations
-Host midterm party conventions to boost turnout and raise the party's profile
-Have super-delegates account for 30-50% of all delegates to the presidential nominating convention

[Indy Texas]

For starters, ALEC needs to be centralized within the RNC. The party does need to be strengthened to prevent the rise of "activist" kooks and loons. Other ideas to strengthen the party:

-Create a central membership and charge annual dues. 30 million paying $10 will raise $300 million a year. $30 and a few more and you get $1 billion a year, etc. This will increase the party's clout in the financing game, the RNC by comparison raised just $105 million in 2015.
-Support campaign finance reform (esp. w/r/t outside contributions) to limit influence of donors
-Limit the amount of outside contributions primary candidates can accept and more generally money that can be spent in primaries
-Require French-style nominations by elected officials for primary and presidential candidates
-Give the RNC power to disqualify primary candidates in "extraordinary" situations
-Host midterm party conventions to boost turnout and raise the party's profile
-Have super-delegates account for 30-50% of all delegates to the presidential nominating convention

A lot of these things are nonstarters for either party, but they would be especially unpalatable to the Republican Party. You can't gin up paranoia about the federal government and centralized authority and then turn around and centralize the damn party.

Nobody's going to want to pay dues and if you make paying dues contingent to voting in the primary, you're going to invite a lawsuit. (And your party already has built up a reputation for discouraging poor people from voting.)

Campaign finance reform? Nah bro. Not gonn' happen.

At one point, the Democratic Party tried holding midterm conventions for precisely the reason you suggested. They stopped doing it in the early '80s because it was expensive and time-consuming and wasn't yielding any clear benefits.

Even if you introduce superdelegates, if you use the Democrats' formula and make members of Congress superdelegates for example, you still end up with a lot of bats**t superdelegates. You want Ted Cruz and Louie Gohmert and Paul LePage to be superdelegates?