GM to cut 25,000 jobs, shut more plants

[Beet]

The union structure works in some cases and not in others. The fact that unionization pinches a corporation's profits makes no difference if all corporations are unionized.

Are you planning to unionize China, Mexico, Vietnam and every other third world country on the planet?

Yes, essentially.

[Bono]

The union structure works in some cases and not in others. The fact that unionization pinches a corporation's profits makes no difference if all corporations are unionized.

Are you planning to unionize China, Mexico, Vietnam and every other third world country on the planet?

Yes, essentially.

How do you plan on doing it?
Through the UN?

[phk]

The union structure works in some cases and not in others. The fact that unionization pinches a corporation's profits makes no difference if all corporations are unionized.

Are you planning to unionize China, Mexico, Vietnam and every other third world country on the planet?

Yes, essentially.

How do you plan on doing it?
Through the UN?

Through military force dumbsh**t.

[Bono]

The union structure works in some cases and not in others. The fact that unionization pinches a corporation's profits makes no difference if all corporations are unionized.

Are you planning to unionize China, Mexico, Vietnam and every other third world country on the planet?

Yes, essentially.

How do you plan on doing it?
Through the UN?

Through military force dumbsh**t.

Ok, phkntroll.

[Dave from Michigan]

Well if GM ever hopes to make a comeback this is necessary.
Hopefully this will help them but they really need to fix the healthcare problem (without universal healthcare).  Hopefully the Plant that my uncle works at will be saved.

[Beet]

The union structure works in some cases and not in others. The fact that unionization pinches a corporation's profits makes no difference if all corporations are unionized.

Are you planning to unionize China, Mexico, Vietnam and every other third world country on the planet?

Yes, essentially.

How do you plan on doing it?
Through the UN?

Actually, "essentially" meant "not necessarily". Unionization may or may not occur. Fundamentally what occurs in the long term (say 100 or 200 years) given continued capital accumulation is that labor becomes relatively scarce. Whether actual unionization occurs or not, the end result will be the same-- the workers' position improves relative to the owners of capital. That's the essential point. The sooner it happens, the better for everyone.

[??????????]

that's exactly what happens everywhere socialized health care is tried.

Who said anything about socialized health care?

No go run along and suck on your mommy's tits like a good little home-schooled boy.

What a troll.

Obviously.

[David S]

The union structure works in some cases and not in others. The fact that unionization pinches a corporation's profits makes no difference if all corporations are unionized.

Are you planning to unionize China, Mexico, Vietnam and every other third world country on the planet?

Yes, essentially.

When are you planning on becomming "Dictator of the world" ?

[??????????]

While I feel sorry for those that lost their jobs, this is good news.  I really do hope GM goes belly up.

Good point again. GM makes a terrible product.

[Beet]

The union structure works in some cases and not in others. The fact that unionization pinches a corporation's profits makes no difference if all corporations are unionized.

Are you planning to unionize China, Mexico, Vietnam and every other third world country on the planet?

Yes, essentially.

When are you planning on becomming "Dictator of the world" ?

See my reply to Bono.

[WalterMitty]

gm should move all of its us operations to a right-to-work (ie normal) state.

[??????????]

gm should move all of its us operations to a right-to-work (ie normal) state.

Thankfully my state is a freedom loving state and is Right-to-work.

[The Dowager Mod]

320k employees
1.1 mil others collecting benifits.
no wonder they can't make a profit.

[A18]

Right-to-work laws are a violation of the separation of business and state.

[opebo]

unions are good for the economy?  right?

Unions are good for working people, yes. But Republicans hate working people, so they're anti-union.

The biggest factor in GM's decreasing profitability is health insurance costs, you dimwit, not unions.

oh yeah.  that's it/

it couldnt be that union labor is horribly inefficient and uncompetitive.  the unions over-inflating wages and pensions probably had nothing to do with these closings either.

keep your head buried in the sand.

You're wrong.  Even without any unions, the auto workers would make maybe $5-10 an hour (the minimum necessary to feed them and cause them to drag themselves back in the next day).  Still far too much to 'compete' with the $5/day such a worker would make in China.

The converse argument is also true - up untill now the competition has been mainly from Japan, where wages and benefits are generally slightly higher than in the US.

So, unions have nothing to do with the problem, rather, the cause is primarily poor management by capital.

[The Vorlon]

The "problem" with GM is simply the advantage of the young over the old.

GM has been around getting close to 100 years now, as a consequence they have a lot of pensions to pay and healthcare to provide as a result of their aging and retired workforce.

If you compare this to, say a new Honda or Nissan plant, one that typically has much younger workers (hence lower healthcare cost) plus no retired benifits to pay yet, of course the Honda or Nissan plant has a dramatically lower unit cost.

This has nothing to do with the skill of management, it just is the way it is.

That being said, the real reason GM has gone from a 50% markey share a generation ago to +/- 25% today is simple - the foreign companies just make, on balance, better vehicles than GM does.

Total employment in the auto industry is not nearly as hard hit as the headlines suggest BTW.  True, GM and Ford and Chrysler are closing down, but Honda, Hyundia, Nissan, Toyota, MB, BMW and others have also opened a lot of new plants.

A unionized plant in Detroit shutting down is just somehow bigger news than a non-Union plant in Alabama opening up.

Its actually mainly a regional shift, away from MIchigan and Ohio, and into the south where their are fewer taxes and less Unions.

The nameplate aside, the US content of a Honda Accord is almost identical to the US content of say a GM Impala.

Indeed "US" companies like GM and Ford have shifted more production to Mexico than "foreign" companies like Honda ands Toyota.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

320k employees
1.1 mil others collecting benifits.
no wonder they can't make a profit.

^^^

On a smaller scale it's the same story with UK Coal over here...

[Keystone Phil]

So we're supposed to lower the cost of health care... you know, by making it suck?

Hey jackass, who said anything about making it suck?

He is a spolied rich kid that knows nothing.. Ignore him!

Now if I was to say the same about opebo, for some reason you'd disagree. Ah the double standards.

[David S]

It is not unusual for companies to start small, grow into huge firms and then eventually succumb to competition from younger leaner firms. Walmart did this to KMart, and KMart did it years ago to their competitors. Of the firms that made up the Dow Jones average 100 years ago, I think only one is still in existence today. My concern here is that the competition in this case comes from foreign companies not American companies. I don't think it bodes well for the future of America.

[??????????]

It is not unusual for companies to start small, grow into huge firms and then eventually succumb to competition from younger leaner firms. Walmart did this to KMart, and KMart did it years ago to their competitors. Of the firms that made up the Dow Jones average 100 years ago, I think only one is still in existence today. My concern here is that the competition in this case comes from foreign companies not American companies. I don't think it bodes well for the future of America.

Maybe if America would quit making an inferior product this problem would stop.

[opebo]

A unionized plant in Detroit shutting down is just somehow bigger news than a non-Union plant in Alabama opening up.

But of course!  Because the former were 'good' jobs, and the latter much worse.

[David S]

OK here's a question: If you were the CEO of GM what would you do to restore the company to profitability? Remember GM is not the US government. It cannot operate at a loss continuously. It must be profitable or go broke. What would you do?

[phk]

OK here's a question: If you were the CEO of GM what would you do to restore the company to profitability? Remember GM is not the US government. It cannot operate at a loss continuously. It must be profitable or go broke. What would you do?

Outsource all jobs to China and start a strategy of becoming a Chinese company with simply having an American brand-name.

[Jake]

If I owned any large unionized company I'd move to somewhere where I could get cheap labor instead of paying my workers' salary, health care, retirement, etc.

[opebo]

phnkrocket, Jake, you are both correct!  The best solution to profitability/competition problems is to seek cheaper labor.  Lovely!