Kasich: Don't drink alcohol if you don't want to get raped

[Lyin' Steve]

Imagine if someone asked a candidate what they would do about terrorism, and they said "I have one bit of advice: avoid major cities, and don't fly on airplanes unless you absolutely have to."

Now do you understand what's wrong with this?

(As an aside, I just noticed that Kasich used the word "coeds" to refer to female college students. I didn't know anyone still used that word in that sense.)

I understand your argument is fallacious

and what does that say about your (identical) argument?

My argument isnt identical. Your comparison is fallacious

do explain what you think the difference is

I can explain.
Wild, drunken, underage college parties are well known to be dangerous and places where sexual assaul, violence, drug abuse, and other crimes occur at a significantly higher rate.  Furthermore, from Kasich's perspective as a concerned adult at least, there's no real unique benefit to going to these parties.
Going to major cities and flying on airplanes will not put you at a significantly higher risk of terrorism because terrorism is so low in the first place.  Additionally there are obvious benefits to doing those things, so the marginal cost of not going to them far exceeds the risk taken by the minutely higher risk of terrorism.  So it's not good advice.
A better analogy would be "I have one bit of advice:  Don't go to Somalia or the Afghan/Pakistan border unless you absolutely have to"

[Virginiá]

This thread needs to be killed with fire

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

This thread needs to be killed with fire

Hey, we're all just playing our part to find out who the crazy posters are

[pbrower2a]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

True. But there need be alternatives to attending wild, drunken parties while underage for drinking. Maybe more sedate, alcohol-free events?

I was 18 when the legal age for drinking was 18. But I knew how to drink -- nurse a drink for two hours and get another, starting at 5PM.  The drinks were likely watered down, anyway. But we college students had little tolerance for assault, violence, ugly language, or drugs (marijuana excepted). But we were college students.

But even if one is drinking age -- it would be wise to avoid wild, drunken parties, or for that matter, very rough bars.

Others didn't bother with the two-hours-between-drinks rule. They got sick.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good. Paris is still a good tourist destination even if Tokyo is safer.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Or Syria. Or Iraq. Or Colombia. Or Venezuela.

As far as that goes, Detroit or St. Louis unless you really know where you are going.

[Mr. Morden]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Or Syria. Or Iraq. Or Colombia. Or Venezuela.

As far as that goes, Detroit or St. Louis unless you really know where you are going.

What if you are running for president, and need to use Detroit or St. Louis as an air hub?

[Antonio the Sixth]

This thread needs to be killed with fire

[Figueira]

Imagine if someone asked a candidate what they would do about terrorism, and they said "I have one bit of advice: avoid major cities, and don't fly on airplanes unless you absolutely have to."

Now do you understand what's wrong with this?

(As an aside, I just noticed that Kasich used the word "coeds" to refer to female college students. I didn't know anyone still used that word in that sense.)

I understand your argument is fallacious

and what does that say about your (identical) argument?

My argument isnt identical. Your comparison is fallacious

do explain what you think the difference is

I can explain.
Wild, drunken, underage college parties are well known to be dangerous and places where sexual assaul, violence, drug abuse, and other crimes occur at a significantly higher rate.  Furthermore, from Kasich's perspective as a concerned adult at least, there's no real unique benefit to going to these parties.
Going to major cities and flying on airplanes will not put you at a significantly higher risk of terrorism because terrorism is so low in the first place.  Additionally there are obvious benefits to doing those things, so the marginal cost of not going to them far exceeds the risk taken by the minutely higher risk of terrorism.  So it's not good advice.
A better analogy would be "I have one bit of advice:  Don't go to Somalia or the Afghan/Pakistan border unless you absolutely have to"

Somalia, Afghanistan, and Pakistan aren't part of the United States, so there's a limited number of things that the US Government can do about them.

Maybe a better analogy would be this: "What do you plan on doing about the crime that's common in some parts of the US?" "I have one bit of advice: Stay away from East St. Louis."

[PeteB]

After reading this thread to the end, I can only conclude that one (or both) of these two must be true:

1. Atlas posters are very passionate about their parties and alcohol

OR

2. Kasich is finally being viewed as a real threat by his opponents in both parties

[Figueira]

After reading this thread to the end, I can only conclude that one (or both) of these two must be true:

1. Atlas posters are very passionate about their parties and alcohol

OR

2. Kasich is finally being viewed as a real threat by his opponents in both parties

I hate alcohol and I don't think Kasich is going anywhere. I'm just not a misogynist victim blamer like TNVolunteer.

[Figueira]

I hate alcohol and I don't think Kasich is going anywhere. I'm just not a misogynist victim blamer like TNVolunteer.

Where and when have I said that the victim is to blame for the rape?

It's more that you (and Kasich) are implying that the way to deal with the problem of rape is by giving advice to the potential victims, rather than trying to stopping the rapists themselves.

Also you're just a misogynist in general.

[Figueira]

I hate alcohol and I don't think Kasich is going anywhere. I'm just not a misogynist victim blamer like TNVolunteer.

Where and when have I said that the victim is to blame for the rape? It's also pretty hilarious when a CLINTON supporter accuses you of misogyny lol.

I'm not a Clinton supporter, at least in the primary.

[Figueira]

It's more that you (and Kasich) are implying that the way to deal with the problem of rape is by giving advice to the potential victims, rather than trying to stopping the rapists themselves.

So you're basically just lying? You said that I blamed the victim for the rape, which I never did.  You can argue about whether Kasich's advice was appropriate or not, but it certainly wasn't badly intentioned or meant to insult the victim. If you're convinced that there is a way to stop rapists and other criminals, feel free to tell us. (But at the same time, you will probably criticize Republicans for being TOO TOUGH ON CRIME!!1!)

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well, I have to admit that I'll never be the women's right champion that Bill Clinton is.

I was being a bit hyperbolic, sure. Where are you getting this idea that I'm a fan of Bill Clinton?

[Gustaf]

Nothing he said is wrong. Alcohol parties are dangerous and really it is stupid for a teenage girl to go, especially alone. That isnt saying it is here fault if things happen, but if you want to be safe it is foolish to put yourself in such obvious danger.

If a woman going to a party is "putting herself in obvious danger" then there is something pretty fcked up about your party culture.

If walking down the street meant you got shot with high probability you'd probably talk more about street safety.

[Lyin' Steve]

I hate alcohol and I don't think Kasich is going anywhere. I'm just not a misogynist victim blamer like TNVolunteer.

Where and when have I said that the victim is to blame for the rape?

It's more that you (and Kasich) are implying that the way to deal with the problem of rape is by giving advice to the potential victims, rather than trying to stopping the rapists themselves.

Also you're just a misogynist in general.

Since when is giving advice to potential victims a bad thing, and how does that make you a victim blamer.
We have DARE to teach kids to avoid drugs and self-defense classes for women to avoid getting assaulted or raped.  When I was a kid we had the stranger danger program and were told to look both ways before crossing the street.  I guess America is just full of people who blame the victim when kids take drugs, get kidnapped by strangers and are run over by cars.

Somalia, Afghanistan, and Pakistan aren't part of the United States, so there's a limited number of things that the US Government can do about them.

Maybe a better analogy would be this: "What do you plan on doing about the crime that's common in some parts of the US?" "I have one bit of advice: Stay away from East St. Louis."

Except he didn't just give that advice.  He also did what you seem to want, which is he talked about how the Ohio state government has taken several steps to ensure that the legal process protects women at colleges.  It would more be like "we're doing X Y and Z to try to bring crime down, especially in the bad areas of town.  For your own safety, though, I would still advise you to stay out of East St. Louis after dark."

Nothing he said is wrong. Alcohol parties are dangerous and really it is stupid for a teenage girl to go, especially alone. That isnt saying it is here fault if things happen, but if you want to be safe it is foolish to put yourself in such obvious danger.

If a woman going to a party is "putting herself in obvious danger" then there is something pretty fcked up about your party culture.

If walking down the street meant you got shot with high probability you'd probably talk more about street safety.

True, a fact that's not really relevant to this conversation is that college parties aren't actually particularly dangerous and rape statistics on college campuses are a yellow journalism cottage industry these days.

[Xing]

After reading this thread to the end, I can only conclude that one (or both) of these two must be true:

1. Atlas posters are very passionate about their parties and alcohol

OR

2. Kasich is finally being viewed as a real threat by his opponents in both parties

I'm not a frequent alcohol user in the slightest, and Kasich isn't winning. I wouldn't argue that Kasich was intentionally victim blaming, but you have to admit, it wasn't the most tactful thing to say. Of course, getting drunk has its risks, but when that's your response to a question about sexual assault, you can easily come across as patronizing.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Well it comes across as a bit worse than merely patronising doesn't it; the implication is that the victim was asking for it. Which is a disgusting sentiment.

[Lyin' Steve]

Well it comes across as a bit worse than merely patronising doesn't it; the implication is that the victim was asking for it. Which is a disgusting sentiment.

It's only in your twisted mind that that's the implication, what a shame.

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

White men on Atlas continue to have misguided (at best) to sexist (at worst) views on women and rape culture. News at 11. 

[IceAgeComing]

the idea that lots of people in this thread have of men is really quite concerning; the idea that women need to lock themselves away because every man turns into a potential rapist once he's had a pint of mild is frankly a baffling one. 

I'm from a country where the drinking age is 18 and where it is expected that most people will probably regularly drink from then.  The first two years I was in uni I was pretty much a a party or in some pub or dodgy club every week (bar if easy hand-ins or exams got in the way, I wasn't that bad a student) and neither my friends nor I ever put themselves in that position: mostly because we all knew that making sure that the person that you're doing things with is OK with that before you start and while you're doing it is the most sensible thing to do.  The best way of tackling things like that isn't by locking up your daughters or banning alcohol (lol if you think that will solve anything, all that would do is make the people that traffic it very rich while you criminalise folk who like a pint after work or other low-intake drinkers); its by actually educating young people about consent and what it exactly means; may it be sex-ed in schools, or by information campaigns in unis or whatever.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

the idea that lots of people in this thread have of men is really quite concerning; the idea that women need to lock themselves away because every man turns into a potential rapist once he's had a pint of mild is frankly a baffling one. 

/r/therealmisandry in action

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

To those thick-skulled posters trying to spin it as some sort of innocent remarks: he was basically saying "oh well, women who get drunk on the parties can only blame themselves if raped". Even if it wasn't intentional, it's still offensive, disguisting and, frankly speaking, only shows he's a moron with no intellectual capacity to be a dogcatcher.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Imagine if someone asked a candidate what they would do about terrorism, and they said "I have one bit of advice: avoid major cities, and don't fly on airplanes unless you absolutely have to."

Now do you understand what's wrong with this?

(As an aside, I just noticed that Kasich used the word "coeds" to refer to female college students. I didn't know anyone still used that word in that sense.)

What if a major candidate said, "If you don't want to get your head cut off, don't travel to countries where ISIS is in control."?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Seriously though, mods pls lock.

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

Imagine if someone asked a candidate what they would do about terrorism, and they said "I have one bit of advice: avoid major cities, and don't fly on airplanes unless you absolutely have to."

Now do you understand what's wrong with this?

(As an aside, I just noticed that Kasich used the word "coeds" to refer to female college students. I didn't know anyone still used that word in that sense.)

What if a major candidate said, "If you don't want to get your head cut off, don't travel to countries where ISIS is in control."?

This bastardized travel analogy is cute, but utterly disanalogous to what is being discussed. If Kasich said: "don't go to the frat house full of known rapists that rape everyone who come through the door but hasn't been shut down by the cops for some reason", it might be valid.  

[Taco Truck 🚚]

If a woman going to a party is "putting herself in obvious danger" then there is something pretty fcked up about your party culture.

Hi, foreigner.  I've never been to your country.  So I take your word for it you guys only have one kind of party over there.  Here in America we literally have an infinite variety of parties and yes the culture surrounding some of those parties is "pretty fcked up" as you put it.  It got lost in all this ridiculous noise but that really is the point.  Heroin parties might be cool and safe for small children in your wonderful country but here in America they are frowned upon as are certain other categories of parties.  Ice cream parties and wine tastings are much more accepted over here and according to scientific data are less rapey.

I totally get that you don't know anything about our country, but what I find bizarre is your incessant need to comment on it.

Kasich was referring to a particular kind of ILLEGAL party and just paraphrased the NIH and multiple city and state ordinances and advised the young lady who asked, to steer clear.  It is pretty normal for someone running for the job of chief law enforcement officer of the land to advise minors to follow the law in this country.  I realize it may be different where you live.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/special-populations-co-occurring-disorders/underage-drinking

I'm curious does anyone on this forum think Hilary Clinton or Obama would advise there 18 year old daughter to go to a frat party with excessive underage drinking?!  Is Kasich's advice to this woman and to his own daughters different than what Hilary Clinton or Obama would say?  I mean I don't know what W Bush said to his daughters but we all know how that turned out.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washdc/2001-05-31-bushdaughters.htm

Or is it you just prefer politicians to say one thing behind closed doors to their daughters and say the exact opposite thing to your daughter's face when she needs advice?  Is that what the Atlas hair on fire crowd wants?  Politicians to lie to our daughters?

Don't go to parties with a lot of alcohol IS basically saying don't socialize.

They have a lot of alcohol at wine tastings.  You honestly think he was telling 30 year old female advertising executives in NYC not to go to wine tastings with their physician/lawyer/investment banker boyfriends?  Or perhaps you want to take another crack at that... this time in context?