Movement liberalism vs. movement conservativism
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  Movement liberalism vs. movement conservativism
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Question: Which do you prefer?
#1
Movement liberalism
 
#2
Movement conservativism
 
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Total Voters: 28

Author Topic: Movement liberalism vs. movement conservativism  (Read 852 times)
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BRTD
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« on: April 18, 2016, 06:13:54 PM »

Easily Movement liberalism.
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Nathan
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2016, 06:14:43 PM »

Both are unacceptably awful.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 06:21:59 PM »

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Goldwater
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2016, 06:29:45 PM »

Movement conservatism, I guess.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2016, 06:31:54 PM »


This, though I wonder if either has a set-in-stone definition...
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Santander
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2016, 06:45:29 PM »

Obviously movement conservatism. Liberals can't put together anything near as fun as CPAC.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2016, 06:57:05 PM »

I really, really, really don't want "movement liberalism" to become the standard term used to refer to the American grassroots left.
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White Trash
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2016, 06:59:08 PM »

I don't like either. Write in vote for "movement libertarianism", the easiest to laugh at.
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2016, 07:00:13 PM »


This, but if forced to choose, I chose the conservatism because they at least have some redeeming moral rationales that make sense (though the vast majority do not). Movement liberalism just said nice things without any sane rationale (because it's the right thing to do!)
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Nathan
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2016, 07:33:03 PM »


This, but if forced to choose, I chose the conservatism because they at least have some redeeming moral rationales that make sense (though the vast majority do not). Movement liberalism just said nice things without any sane rationale (because it's the right thing to do!)

But it's 2016!
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2016, 08:15:07 PM »

Movement liberalism doesn't begat quite as much bigotry and usually leads to lots of big-picture reforms.

So yeah, that side if there's a gun at my head, but I still have many qualms with both sides.
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Derpist
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2016, 08:26:20 PM »

Movement conservatism. I don't agree politically with their policies, but at least they don't hate me for my culture, gender, identity, etc.
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Clark Kent
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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2016, 08:45:10 PM »

What is "movement liberalism"?
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BRTD
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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2016, 10:28:43 PM »


MoveOn.org. DailyKos. The backers of primarying Joe Lieberman in 2006. The early supporters of Obama in 2008. Bernie Sanders supporters today.
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Pyro
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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2016, 10:32:13 PM »

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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2016, 10:36:10 PM »


Oh, come on. Their degrees of awfulness are not even remotely comparable.
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BRTD
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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2016, 10:49:57 PM »

Yeah does Nathan seriously think Bernie Sanders and Ted Cruz (the current candidates of each respective movement) are on the same level?
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Intell
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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2016, 10:50:54 PM »

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Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy
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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2016, 12:37:41 AM »

Movement anarcho-monarchism (normal; sane, duh)
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Nathan
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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2016, 07:44:46 AM »
« Edited: April 19, 2016, 08:56:15 AM by What shall make their sap ascend? »


I reread BRTD's definition of it in the other thread and, yeah, 'movement liberalism' is a lot less bad. I was thinking of specific corners of it that are awful (the Daily Kos commentariat, the 'it's 2016!' people--the latter is as you know one of the best ways to get me not to listen to an argument).

I also think it was in general a better and more useful current of thought late in the last decade than it is now, viz. I think the tone of Sanders's campaign and that taken by the groups he's mostly appealing to obscure what ought to be the nature of his message.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2016, 02:41:24 PM »

I reread BRTD's definition of it in the other thread and, yeah, 'movement liberalism' is a lot less bad. I was thinking of specific corners of it that are awful (the Daily Kos commentariat, the 'it's 2016!' people--the latter is as you know one of the best ways to get me not to listen to an argument).

I can't think of any subset of the American left that comes close to the utter moral decrepitude of the American right. Sure, the DailyKos, reddit, or tumblr crowd can be unbelievably shallow, ignorant and full of itself. But on the other side, you have a political current that, in almost all areas of policy, is motivated by a visceral hatred of those who have it worst in society and a desire to, at best, keep them in "their place", and at worst, actively punish them. I really don't think equating those two is appropriate. Even if two things are bad it's very important to distinguish the one that's clearly worse.

Also, I don't think "it's 2016" is generally used as an argument to convince the other side. I think it's mainly used to emphasize the correctness of an already-held belief - kinda like (normal) and (sane) here. Sure, it doesn't add anything to the conversation, but many other things don't either.
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Nathan
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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2016, 03:08:08 PM »

I reread BRTD's definition of it in the other thread and, yeah, 'movement liberalism' is a lot less bad. I was thinking of specific corners of it that are awful (the Daily Kos commentariat, the 'it's 2016!' people--the latter is as you know one of the best ways to get me not to listen to an argument).

I can't think of any subset of the American left that comes close to the utter moral decrepitude of the American right. Sure, the DailyKos, reddit, or tumblr crowd can be unbelievably shallow, ignorant and full of itself. But on the other side, you have a political current that, in almost all areas of policy, is motivated by a visceral hatred of those who have it worst in society and a desire to, at best, keep them in "their place", and at worst, actively punish them. I really don't think equating those two is appropriate. Even if two things are bad it's very important to distinguish the one that's clearly worse.

That's a very fair point. I guess I'm insulated from just how bad movement conservatism is because the spectrum of political discussion that I actually pay attention to goes committedly left wing<----->Catholic right-distrubist. I don't really even have a clear understanding of what exactly people like Cruz are supposed to be saying any more.

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I've seen it used both ways but maybe I've been unlucky.
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