Is leftism pro-Islam?
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  Is leftism pro-Islam?
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Question: Is leftism pro-Islam?
#1
yes
 
#2
no
 
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Total Voters: 64

Author Topic: Is leftism pro-Islam?  (Read 13129 times)
A18
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« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2005, 05:39:13 PM »

So like you closed your remind to religion?
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opebo
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« Reply #76 on: June 11, 2005, 05:41:23 PM »

So like you closed your remind to religion?

Well, I do enjoy fiction..
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A18
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« Reply #77 on: June 11, 2005, 05:44:21 PM »

Yeah, I think we all figured that out when you mentioned your support for Keynesian economics.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #78 on: June 11, 2005, 05:44:40 PM »

Lock thread time
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BRTD
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« Reply #79 on: June 12, 2005, 12:26:40 PM »
« Edited: June 12, 2005, 12:34:08 PM by Frente Farabundo Martí para la Liberación Nacional »

I still think Pinochet is scum (dazzleman once said I was anti-American for hating him). 

No, I said you were anti-American because even if he had the exact same policies, you would not have hated him if he had been an enemy, rather than a friend, of the US.

OK, point me toward a dictator very much like Pinochet who is anti-American and who I like and is similarly a whore of neoliberalism. I hate all neoliberalism and free market economics, and its even worse when a brutal dictator is running it. This is the ultimate in baseless assumptions.

The only "dictator" I like at all is Chavez, who I don't consider a dictator and is about as far away from Pinochet as you can get in domestic policies. So your accusation is 100% baseless.

Furthermore if this were true, this would mean that I would support EVERY anti-American regime without exception. So please point me to where I've praised North Korea and/or the Taliban. Or how about Sudan? Except I think the problem with our Sudan policy was it was too lenient, and that we should've done air and cruise missle strikes at military targets to weaken the regime further and assist the rebels in the south and Darfur. And why am I such a supporter of the US ally Britain over the anti-American IRA.

So I ask you this challenge: name two cases of people where I like one and I hate the other with the only difference whatsoever between the two being that one is anti-American and the other isn't.
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J. J.
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« Reply #80 on: June 12, 2005, 12:46:26 PM »

So like you closed your remind to religion?

Well, I do enjoy fiction..

Then try to publish your "sexcapades."
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StatesRights
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« Reply #81 on: June 12, 2005, 01:02:45 PM »

So like you closed your remind to religion?

Well, I do enjoy fiction..

Then try to publish your "sexcapades."

No one wants to hear about Opebos masturbation fantasies.
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opebo
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« Reply #82 on: June 12, 2005, 04:19:35 PM »

Uh yeah. I think he's going crazy with his alternate personalities again...

"Erected for the students that religion and education go hand in hand.  That knowledge accompany character."
  --etched in stone above one of the many chapels at Columbia University

"Pro Ecclesia Dei."
  -etched in stone above one of the many chapels at Haaav'd

and these are two universities with which I'm somewhat familiar, but I'm sure there's something similar at many others.  And it doesn't have to be ivy league.  Mississippi University for Women, a state school, and the first public university for women in the united states, has two chapels.  The Ohio State University, a state school, has several chapels.  Every decent university in the USA, in Europe, and in general, wherever the Western university system exists, knows to whom it owes its existence.  I am neither defending the Church, nor claiming to be among its adherents, but to claim ignorance of the entire history of western civilization and its two most influential institutions (the university and The Church, often the lines between the two are fuzzy) is an insult to the California public school system.  Let me suggest, hopefully, that the poster's ignorance isn't representative of that great school system's graduates.  Ever take a good look at your PhD hood, or your master's gown, or even your bachelor's robe?  It's no coincidence that it looks pretty much like The Reverend Al Sharpton's Choir robe.  They have very closely knit origins, if you'll pardon the pun.  Probably it's just joking, or trolling, but on the off chance that it wasn't, to ignore the profound influence of the christianity on western education is to ignore western education altogether.  end of rant.

The point is that education has occured in spite of its association with christianity.  And as the church has allowed greater and greater levels of education, its influence has dropped.  Simply put, educated people are more likely to be atheists, and ignorant rubes are more likely to do as the church says.
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angus
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« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2005, 04:26:29 PM »

I don't entirely disagree with the contents of your last post, but that's a far cry from saying they have opposing values.  In fact, I'm not convinced that the values of either are very well understood at the moment.  My guess is that neither you nor phknrocket1k have ever even had a conversation with a priest or rabbi.  you just might be surprised.  not only at how well-educated they are, but also by how they are nothing like what your little caricatures suggest.
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Palefire
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« Reply #84 on: June 12, 2005, 09:37:44 PM »

I don't entirely disagree with the contents of your last post, but that's a far cry from saying they have opposing values.  In fact, I'm not convinced that the values of either are very well understood at the moment.  My guess is that neither you nor phknrocket1k have ever even had a conversation with a priest or rabbi.  you just might be surprised.  not only at how well-educated they are, but also by how they are nothing like what your little caricatures suggest.

Amen.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #85 on: February 22, 2008, 01:26:33 PM »

It's time to bump another of BRTD's old religious threads! The more I see, the more I agree with KP.
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BRTD
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« Reply #86 on: February 22, 2008, 01:37:20 PM »

Oh yeah, ban me for 2 1/2 year old threads.
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benconstine
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« Reply #87 on: February 22, 2008, 01:40:08 PM »


We're not asking for you to be banned because of this; we are asking to ban you because of all the vindictive threads you've created recently, as well as the many personal attacks.
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BRTD
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« Reply #88 on: February 22, 2008, 01:41:05 PM »


We're not asking for you to be banned because of this; we are asking to ban you because of all the vindictive threads you've created recently, as well as the many personal attacks.

Then ban Phil too (ESPECIALLY if you want to talk about personal attacks because I can't count how many he's made toward me.)
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benconstine
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« Reply #89 on: February 22, 2008, 01:45:39 PM »


We're not asking for you to be banned because of this; we are asking to ban you because of all the vindictive threads you've created recently, as well as the many personal attacks.

Then ban Phil too (ESPECIALLY if you want to talk about personal attacks because I can't count how many he's made toward me.)

What he's said about you is not comparable to what you have been doing recently.
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #90 on: February 22, 2008, 03:41:48 PM »


The reason for the far left == pro-Islam confusion is threefold:
1. Both are rabidly anti-capitalist.
2. Both dislike the United States.
3. Some leftists (ie Galloway in Britain) at least seem to be pro-Islam.


4. Liberal sentiment demands that fanatic suicide bombers be identified as the frustrated poor, held down by American global domination.

5. Both see Zionism and Israel as evil encroaching Western entities.

to be fair, I think most liberals support Israel, even if they don't support its actions in the territories. Plus the far right and old right are totally against Israel.
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JSojourner
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« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2008, 04:46:23 PM »

Do I respect Islam, and the devote and peaceful beliefs of millions of Muslims?  Yes.  Am I a leftist?  No.

Do I support the actions of every Christian on the planet?  No.  Am I a Christian?  Yes.

Bravo, JJ.  Well said.
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JSojourner
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« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2008, 04:49:08 PM »

I think that for most leftists, anti-Americanism trumps everything else. 

I'm a leftist and I love America.  Right down to my bones.  Hating some things America has done in the past or is doing now is not tantamount to hating America.  Quite the opposite, in fact. 
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BRTD
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« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2008, 08:07:45 PM »

I think that for most leftists, anti-Americanism trumps everything else.

I'm a leftist and I love America.  Right down to my bones.  Hating some things America has done in the past or is doing now is not tantamount to hating America.  Quite the opposite, in fact. 

Like I said in another thread, arguing with the poster in question is like arguing with a wall to change its color.

However he's no longer with us, so no worries.
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dead0man
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« Reply #94 on: March 07, 2008, 02:26:25 AM »

The left isn't pro Islam.  Many on the far left are anti-Israel (note I didn't say anti-semitic...though some of them are) and thus have a lot of common ground with many extremist Muslim Fundie organizations.  There were a LOT of hijab's at the handfull of peace rally's a few years ago (why'd you guys stop doing peace marches?  There is a lot more to do now than there was in 1969 I guess.  "Hey, peace march today you going?"  "nah, Oprah is on").  A.N.S.W.E.R. is certainly pro Islam, but many on the left distance themselves from them (as they should) in the same way right leaning groups distance themselves from the KKK.

So no, the "left" isn't pro-Islam.  Though some on the left share a hatred of the state of Israel with many Muslims.
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« Reply #95 on: March 14, 2008, 02:09:26 AM »

interesting you should bring up the hijab. In Europe the left and the right both fight it with more or less equal fervor though for sharply different reasons. In the US it's basically a non-issue.
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dead0man
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« Reply #96 on: March 14, 2008, 02:36:24 AM »

interesting you should bring up the hijab. In Europe the left and the right both fight it with more or less equal fervor though for sharply different reasons. In the US it's basically a non-issue.
It should be a non-issue.  Why should I care what someone wears on ones head?  On the other hand, if the nice lady at the DMV asks you to take it off so you can be identified (the entire point of an identity card), you should take the damn thing off.  Or if your instructor asks you to remove it because he/she feels its a distraction (or any other number of good reasons that could easily be avoided if it matters that much to the wearer of the funny hat).  I just brought it up to mention that there were quite a few Muslim Fundamentalists that were "with" the left in their anger over the war in Iraq.

I thought I did a pretty good job in my original explanation though.  I used to be of the mindset that the left in general hates Israel enough that they were willing to get in bed with people they wouldn't normally want to associate with (like they do with Unions), but I've wised up in recent years.  "The Left" isn't a huge monolithic institution full of members that all think the same way anymore than "the right" is or Libertarians or Commies.  Painting with a broad brush makes a person look foolish and I don't like looking foolish.  I do a good enough job of that without being a bigot.  Now if I can get everybody else to stop using the big brushes....
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Franzl
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« Reply #97 on: March 14, 2008, 08:28:50 AM »

What it means is that my country doesn't trump my support for human rights, for example it means I still think Pinochet is scum (dazzleman once said I was anti-American for hating him).  dazzleman also said he considers the Saudi Royals better than Hugo Chavez and judges them ONLY on how well they get along with the US, while I say Chavez is far better because he doesn't run a theocratic police state.

The only way to judge a nation outside our borders is on how the support the US. I see no reason to whine and cry about people in Saudi Arabia as long as the oil continues to pump. Now, if the oil doesn't continue to pump out of Venezuela, we have a responsibility to shoot Chavez and replace him with someone pro-American.

We have a responsibility??? please...that kind of idiotic thinking got us into Iraq. We do not even have the right to interfere in other countries' affairs, let alone the responsibility.
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dead0man
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« Reply #98 on: March 14, 2008, 09:14:16 AM »

We have the right, responsibility and DUTY to interfere in other countries affairs (if certain, preset conditions are met).
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Jake
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« Reply #99 on: March 14, 2008, 01:06:07 PM »

We have a responsibility??? please...that kind of idiotic thinking got us into Iraq. We do not even have the right to interfere in other countries' affairs, let alone the responsibility.

Why's that?
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