VP Biden: US Feels Overwhelming Frustration with Israeli Government

[Murica!]

Why is it always the first thing anti-Zionists jump on when somebody mentions blowing up buses?  It's a horrible excuse for murder, but that's the only excuse we ever hear.  (well, we hear other excuses too, but those people are usually honest enough in their bigotry to admit it's just racism)

So the Israeli State can arrest and kill Palestinians but the Palestinians cannot fight back(regardless of the morality of the way they fight back)?

Is that what I said?  Lemme check....no, I didn't even insinuate that.  WTF are you even talking about?  That was a weird turn even for a discussion on this topic.

What I replied to is in bold.

[This account no longer in use.]

Also, who uses the term "anti-Zionism" in serious context?

[dead0man]

Why is it always the first thing anti-Zionists jump on when somebody mentions blowing up buses?  It's a horrible excuse for murder, but that's the only excuse we ever hear.  (well, we hear other excuses too, but those people are usually honest enough in their bigotry to admit it's just racism)

So the Israeli State can arrest and kill Palestinians but the Palestinians cannot fight back(regardless of the morality of the way they fight back)?

Is that what I said?  Lemme check....no, I didn't even insinuate that.  WTF are you even talking about?  That was a weird turn even for a discussion on this topic.

What I replied to is in bold.

Yep, no clue.  I have no idea how that's a response.  If there are some cases where someone has been illegally detained or murdered by the state, and there no doubt are, just like every other country in the world, then the response should be like every other country in the world.  Which isn't to start blowing up buses (or launching rockets at civilians, or encouraging preteens to go on stabbing sprees...I could go on and on) you might note.


I believe you're supposed to mention bulldozers or white phosphorous now.  We should get to the King David Hotel sometime around Thursday afternoon.

[SATW]

I honestly, sincerely, believe that certain posters here, and Anti-Zionists in general, have some serious undiagnosed issues. If you find excuses for every attack of terror committed by Palestinian militants...then you are Anti-Israel, Anti-Peace, Anti-Progress.

Moving onto Joe Biden: Cry me a river. Stop bashing your allies and maybe there won't be any frustration. The idea of giving up the Golan is so ridiculous that I feel dumber just by reading arguments in favor of it.

[SATW]

Also, the ridiculous claim that the "occupation" is causing the violence in Israel is beyond stupid. How many more peace plans need to be rejected by the Palestinians for the left to give up on this exhausting, and embarrassing, exercise?

The corrupt and pro-terrorist leadership in the PA wants the conflict to keep happening. They profit off the misery of their own people.
The terrorist Hamas government wants the conflict to keep happening. They profit off the misery of their own people.

But, of course, the super-duper-far-left doesn't care. Politics is about yelling and feeling good for these type of leftists. Whatever can give you some feeling of nirvana is the only thing that matters.

[Comrade Funk]

If Israel loses the Democratic Party, it's over. The debate is already beginning with Bernie and now this.

[IceSpear]

If Israel loses the Democratic Party, it's over. The debate is already beginning with Bernie and now this.

The state of Israel will never "lose the Democratic Party." Even Bernie says they have a right to exist and defend themselves, so the Hamas sympathizers will not be finding a home in the Democratic Party anytime soon.

However, the Netanyahu administration can and has lost the Democratic Party, which is exactly what Biden's comments are referring to. There is no moral equivalence between blowing up buses and building settlements, but that doesn't change the fact that Netanyahu's leadership only exacerbates the problems.

[dead0man]

Agreed in full.  It's not like we're going to start joining Syria, N.Korea and Iran at the UN telling the world that Israel has worst record of women's rights in the world as happened a couple of weeks ago.  (I understand nobody is shocked by anti-semitism coming from the UN)

[Comrade Funk]

If Israel loses the Democratic Party, it's over. The debate is already beginning with Bernie and now this.

The state of Israel will never "lose the Democratic Party." Even Bernie says they have a right to exist and defend themselves, so the Hamas sympathizers will not be finding a home in the Democratic Party anytime soon.

However, the Netanyahu administration can and has lost the Democratic Party, which is exactly what Biden's comments are referring to. There is no moral equivalence between blowing up buses and building settlements, but that doesn't change the fact that Netanyahu's leadership only exacerbates the problems.

Israel is moving to the right, so its likely either Netanyahu or worse. No one here is comparing blowing up buses with settlements (settlements are illegal and bad though), but it shouldn't be controversial to rethink our relationship with Israel and other countries in the region.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Maybe the U.S could finally stop bending over for the Israeli puppet masters .

[Taco Truck 🚚]

I don't care why they blow up buses any more than I care why Al Qaeda blows up skyscrapers or ISIS shoots up concert halls.

So you are basically saying you don't want to solve the problem?  You would just rather have buses being blown up in perpetuity and keep playing the victim?

If you don't analyze the root cause how can you hope to solve the problem?

How about don't exterminate a third of an entire ethnic group as the culmination of thousands of years of murder, and then act like their border policies justify murdering more?

When did the United States or Palestinians exterminate a third of Jews?!  Honestly the more I read the more I'm thinking your thought process is closer and closer to that of the lunatics that blew up the bus.

I like how the anti-Zionist think building a house where another party doesn't approve and blowing up a bus full of people are morally equal.  Really says a lot.

I like how sociopaths justify their illegal behavior by claiming their victims' reaction to said behavior is disproportionate.

If you are doing something illegal stop.

Both parties are misbehaving.  If a Palestinian came on here and justified blowing up a bus because their land was stolen I would tell them to stop as well.  Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Angel of Death]

Also, the ridiculous claim that the "occupation" is causing the violence in Israel is beyond stupid.

Is no one going to call this clown out on the use of these scare quotes? It's amazing the kind of cognitive dissonance a person can conjure in order to deny basic reality because just a factual description of it ("occupation") is by itself already so discomforting. In a way, it's an admission of guilt.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

The narrative that the "root of the problem" is Israel's conduct is the problem. The problem is the barbaric terror tactics of Hamas and the absurd idea that Israel should give them a state to continue this in.

If the Palestinians ceased embracing terrorism, the global pressure would likely be impossible for Israel to resist and a two-state solution would be hashed out. However, the combination of Hamas terror tactics and the absurd intransigent demands of Abbas to turn both the new Palestine and the state of Israel into de facto Islamic states have shut down negotiations, maybe for good. Thus, their only true allies are the genocide lobby that is BDS.

[Zioneer]

Maybe the U.S could finally stop bending over for the Israeli puppet masters .

Uhhhh I get where you're coming from, but I think it's more that Israel does whatever it wants and the US gives them a blank check, rather than being active "puppet masters". Lobbying and creating a culture of pro-Israel in the US, sure, but not "puppet masters" as it were.

[Antonio the Sixth]

petition to ban any discussion on Israel anywhere on the internet

[This account no longer in use.]

What is it about Israel that makes people on both sides into effing wackos?

That's a good question, actually. On paper, it doesn't seem like it'll make people so angry and crazy.

[Zioneer]

What is it about Israel that makes people on both sides into effing wackos?

That's a good question, actually. On paper, it doesn't seem like it'll make people so angry and crazy.

Well, in terms of religion and ethnicity and so forth, it's been controversial for a couple thousand years.

[Gass3268]

The narrative that the "root of the problem" is Israel's conduct is the problem. The problem is the barbaric terror tactics of Hamas and the absurd idea that Israel should give them a state to continue this in.

If the Palestinians ceased embracing terrorism, the global pressure would likely be impossible for Israel to resist and a two-state solution would be hashed out. However, the combination of Hamas terror tactics and the absurd intransigent demands of Abbas to turn both the new Palestine and the state of Israel into de facto Islamic states have shut down negotiations, maybe for good. Thus, their only true allies are the genocide lobby that is BDS.

Ummm, what?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The narrative that the "root of the problem" is Israel's conduct is the problem. The problem is the barbaric terror tactics of Hamas and the absurd idea that Israel should give them a state to continue this in.

If the Palestinians ceased embracing terrorism, the global pressure would likely be impossible for Israel to resist and a two-state solution would be hashed out. However, the combination of Hamas terror tactics and the absurd intransigent demands of Abbas to turn both the new Palestine and the state of Israel into de facto Islamic states have shut down negotiations, maybe for good. Thus, their only true allies are the genocide lobby that is BDS.

Ummm, what?

I don't know much about BDS as a whole, but the people I know who are involved with the movement overtly and unapologetically want to see Israel destroyed as a political and cultural entity and its wily and perfidious inhabitants forced to return to their or their ancestors' countries of origin (or, failing that, to Crown Heights). They get away with this because antisemitism is chic in certain circles and because they're the sort of people who both would and convincingly could play Oppression Olympics if somebody pointed out what they're really saying. I don't know these people well, and that's a very deliberate choice on my part.

[dead0man]

petition to ban any discussion on Israel anywhere on the internet

you know, you could, this is going to sound crazy, you could just avoid going in those threads.  I know, that's a stupid idea...just throwing it out there.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

deadman, just because the enemy of someone is worse, it doesn't make them a good guy.  What you are arguing is similar to arguing that Stalin was a good guy because he was fighting Hitler. (Yes, it's a strained and oversimplististic analogy, but it gets my point across quickly.)

That said, US frustration over the Middle East is largely our own fault.  It's due to the naive American belief that we are so persuasive we can make people unwilling to be reasonable see reason.  There is no working peace process and there hasn't been one for over a decade. The only real value we gain from our involvement there right now is that it gives us a chance to test weapon systems under real world conditions.

Incidentally, I don't fault Bibi for concluding that there is no current path to peace. What I fault him for is acting to preclude future paths to peace. There is no military or economic benefit to Israel to be gained from expanding the settlements, only political benefit to Bibi.