Will the Libertarian Party replace the GOP?
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  Will the Libertarian Party replace the GOP?
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Author Topic: Will the Libertarian Party replace the GOP?  (Read 2297 times)
Senator-elect Spark
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« on: April 23, 2016, 01:59:10 PM »

If the GOP nominates Trump and he loses in a landslide then I believe the party will be dissolved. It is too fractured and beyond repair at this point. If this hypothetical scenario occurs, which party would replace it?
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2016, 02:00:49 PM »
« Edited: April 23, 2016, 02:03:21 PM by ElectionsGuy »

lolno

Besides their incompetence, hasn't it been shown that there's nothing libertarian about both the GOP elites or their base (but especially their base)?
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The Free North
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2016, 02:02:24 PM »

We go through this every year and the answer has not changed since people started asking in 2007.

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Senator-elect Spark
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2016, 02:03:30 PM »

Should we move back to the third party system?
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Ronnie
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2016, 02:03:44 PM »
« Edited: April 23, 2016, 02:06:18 PM by Ronnie »

Doubtful, but if if it did happen, Dems would win in massive landslides every time.  Libertarianism is a fringe ideology that doesn't appeal to anyone beyond the very rich and clueless teenagers.
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°Leprechaun
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2016, 02:06:57 PM »

The GOP has existed for a long time, and it will take more than a Trump (or Cruz) loss in a landslide for it to collapse. Even after twenty years of FDR/Truman and another big loss in 1964 the party bounced way back and will again. It will, at least, remain the opposition party as the Democrats becoming stronger winning over younger voters. For good or for ill, third parties have never been strong enough to replace either of the two dominant parties (not since Abraham Lincoln anyway). T Roosevelt was the only candidate to come in second and he lost badly to Wilson.
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Senator-elect Spark
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2016, 02:08:57 PM »

Doubtful, but if if it did happen, Dems would win in massive landslides every time.  Libertarianism is a fringe ideology that doesn't appeal to anyone beyond the very rich and clueless teenagers.

They've been winning in landslides recently and after the GOP has suffered many losses I assume that in the 2020s a new party will rise.
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Ronnie
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2016, 02:15:13 PM »

Doubtful, but if if it did happen, Dems would win in massive landslides every time.  Libertarianism is a fringe ideology that doesn't appeal to anyone beyond the very rich and clueless teenagers.

They've been winning in landslides recently and after the GOP has suffered many losses I assume that in the 2020s a new party will rise.

They might suffer nationally in 2016, but they've assumed almost unprecedented control on the state and local level during the Obama administration.  Our two party system is resilient, and it will take much more than one election to bring it down.  Besides, I think it's more likely that the party will work to bridge the divergent interests of its business wing and working class base before splitting apart entirely.  In a way, this election might be an important wake-up call for a party that's ignored the economic anxieties of its foot soldiers for too long. 
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Higgs
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2016, 02:15:26 PM »
« Edited: April 23, 2016, 02:17:34 PM by Higgs »

So the party that controls both houses of Congress, the majority of governorships, and the majority of state legislatures should just dissolve because we haven't won a Presidential election in a while?
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RaphaelDLG
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2016, 02:26:16 PM »

Libertarianism is inherently not an ideology for the masses but rather one for mostly wealthy/educated (not necessarily wise or prudent) people.

A slightly more neoliberal democratic party or a slightly more secular Republican party is the closest you'd get.
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RaphaelDLG
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2016, 02:28:14 PM »

And no, Trump is not moving the Republican party in a libertarian direction - in fact, he's doing just the opposite.
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Senator-elect Spark
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2016, 02:31:37 PM »

So the party that controls both houses of Congress, the majority of governorships, and the majority of state legislatures should just dissolve because we haven't won a Presidential election in a while?

Yes because a loss on a national level affects those elections. We will undeniably lose the Senate majority and seats in the House if we nominate Trump.
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Senator-elect Spark
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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2016, 02:35:16 PM »
« Edited: April 24, 2016, 10:06:34 AM by Spark498 »

And no, Trump is not moving the Republican party in a libertarian direction - in fact, he's doing just the opposite.

Cruz is moving the party that way and it isn't going well with much of the party. I just don't see the GOP winning again until maybe 2024.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2016, 02:40:20 PM »

Libertarianism is for uninformed 13 year olds, so no, no it will not
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Higgs
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« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2016, 02:50:59 PM »

So the party that controls both houses of Congress, the majority of governorships, and the majority of state legislatures should just dissolve because we haven't won a Presidential election in a while?

Yes because a loss on a national level affects those elections. We will undeniably lose the Senate majority and seats in the House if we nominate Trump.

It is most definitely deniable that we will lose the Senate if Trump is the nominee. Sure we'll lose a few seats, but there's no guarantee that the Democrats will gain a majority. I can guarantee, however, that the Republican Party will not dissolve, no matter if Trump gets nominated or how bad we lose. I'm not sure how educated you are in US history, but if the Republican Party was going to dissolve it would have happened during the FDR years. The Republicans oversaw the Great Depression and took massive losses in the House, Senate, and well, pretty much everywhere. The Democrats had a lock on the White House for over 4 terms and had built a solid coalition that looked unbeatable. The nation had dramatically shifted to the left, and the role of government would forever be changed. Still, the Republican Party did not dissolve. The Party is much stronger than you think, and it will take a little bit more than Donald Trump to cause the death of this Grand Old Party.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2016, 03:34:27 PM »

The Democrats survived McGovern, Mondale, and Dukakis. Why wouldn't the GOP survive Trump?
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
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« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2016, 03:38:39 PM »

If the GOP nominate Goldwater and he loses in a landslide then I believe the party will be dissolved. It is too fractured and beyond repair at this point. If this hypothetical scenario occurs, will the Prohibition Party replace the GOP?
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Santander
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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2016, 06:07:20 PM »

Trump is changing the GOP for the better - it will adapt, and it will survive.
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OSR stands with Israel
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« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2016, 06:11:39 PM »

Hopefully Gary Johnson can win enough states to throw the election to the house. Then Gary Johnson becomes president .
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Ronnie
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« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2016, 06:12:33 PM »

Hopefully Gary Johnson can win enough states to throw the election to the house. Then Gary Johnson becomes president .

The house would pick Gary Johnson over my dead body.
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OSR stands with Israel
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« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2016, 06:28:44 PM »

Hopefully Gary Johnson can win enough states to throw the election to the house. Then Gary Johnson becomes president .

The house would pick Gary Johnson over my dead body.

They would over trump
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2016, 07:23:58 PM »

If the GOP nominates Trump and he loses in a landslide then I believe the party will be dissolved. It is too fractured and beyond repair at this point. If this hypothetical scenario occurs, which party would replace it?

This is bad analysis and you should feel bad.

Trump winning the nomination and losing the general is categorically the best outcome for the mainstream GOP. It means they can say "hey, we gave Trumpism a chance and it didn't work, back to being generic Bush Republicans!" It ensures everything goes back to normal in 2020.

Regardless though, the Libertarian Party will never replace the GOP. Both because of the electoral system we use and because it's full of cranks and unserious people. It's possible ideological small l libertarians take over the GOP but even that seems unlikely.

The two likeliest futures for the GOP are the current anti-tax dogmatists stay in power (which is probably best for someone with a libertarian/small government point of view) or they become a populist White nationalist party. The chances of an even more extreme sect of anti-taxers coming along and winning is very unlikely.
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Fuzzy Bear
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« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2016, 08:29:59 PM »

So the party that controls both houses of Congress, the majority of governorships, and the majority of state legislatures should just dissolve because we haven't won a Presidential election in a while?

Yes because a loss on a national level affects those elections. We will undeniably lose the Senate majority and seats in the House if we nominate Trump.

I am not convinced of that.  The Democrats retained a 242 seat majority in the house and gained seats in the Senate during the McGovern debacle, and did not lose significant ground in 1984 when Reagan also swept 49 states.

The 1984 election was an overwhelming affirmation of a popular President, who won the votes of many non-liberal Democrats who voted Democratic in Congressional races.  The 1972 election was won with a campaign where the Republican President urged Democrats to support him because it would be in keeping with being a good Democrat (McGovern representing someone who hijacked the party from regular Democrats).  Democrats for Nixon were NOT encouraged to vote Republican for other offices in most cases; conservative Democrats who supported Nixon's foreign policy objectives were not effectively opposed.

So will it be if Trump comes a cropper.  When a Presidential candidate is SO unpopular as to lose 40 or so states, it's a PERSONAL rejection of a particular candidate, and not a rejection of that party's policies.  Oddly enough, the bigger Trump loses, the safer the GOP majorities are past a certain point.
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beaver2.0
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« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2016, 01:34:42 PM »

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White Trash
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« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2016, 02:09:21 PM »

The Libertarian Party vs. the Democratic party just doesn't make sense. There is no way that the Religious Right goes for the party that socially left of the Democrats. And there is no way that the neocons support the party that is even more Dovish than the Democrats. The Libertarian Party alienates key parts of the GOP coalition. So unless the Democrats become the Populist Party of yore, there is no way that the Libertarians replace the Republicans.
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