Sanders surrogate brings up Monica Lewinsky in attack on Clinton
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  Sanders surrogate brings up Monica Lewinsky in attack on Clinton
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Author Topic: Sanders surrogate brings up Monica Lewinsky in attack on Clinton  (Read 1741 times)
Ogre Mage
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« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2016, 06:24:25 AM »

Desperation is setting in for the Sanders campaign and it is beyond embarrassing that Monica Lewinsky was raised as an issue during a DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.  This is the sort of hit one would expect from the right-wing attack machine, the fact it came from a primary opponent's campaign is shameful, especially one promising to run a "positive campaign."

Trotting out the surrogates to perform smears like this is typical politician stuff.  And that is what Sanders is now -- a typical politician.
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SillyAmerican
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« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2016, 07:34:30 AM »

One annoying thing about Trump winning the nom will be that we'll have to re-litigate this tedious bullsh**t from 20 years ago

This is a broader point that many people are missing, yes. While it's idiotic for this to come up during the primary, it's not actually going to do any real damage to her that wouldn't be done otherwise. It's going to be everywhere in the general, and it's going to be there whether Trump is the nominee or not (do people think non-Trump candidates won't drag all of it up?).

Yup. Hillary should really figure out how to address this head on, 'cuz despite what she'd like to see happen, this is not going to go away.
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2016, 08:38:40 AM »

clinton's actions w/r/t her husband's long history of rape and abuse are absolutely a relevant issue to her qualifications as president. it's disgraceful that some of you expect people to ignore serious moral failures just because they happen to have been committed by a member of their own party.
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Virginiá
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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2016, 08:57:05 AM »

clinton's actions w/r/t her husband's long history of rape and abuse are absolutely a relevant issue to her qualifications as president. it's disgraceful that some of you expect people to ignore serious moral failures just because they happen to have been committed by a member of their own party.

But did he actually rape anyone or is this just accusations of a powerful political figure? Personally I don't buy into that crap unless there is proof, or some sort of Cosby-like situation.
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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2016, 09:13:34 AM »

Side note:
Let's not forget that Lewinsky has 50% to blame, for the affair she had with Bill Clinton (It takes two to tango.)
She was an adult, and made a choice to "involve" herself with a man, who she knew was married.
And by making this choice, Lewinsky provoked the expected anger of the married woman (Mrs. Clinton). (What did you expect ..... for Hillary to bake Lewinsky a cake ?)
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Averroës Nix
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« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2016, 09:16:46 AM »

clinton's actions w/r/t her husband's long history of rape and abuse are absolutely a relevant issue to her qualifications as president. it's disgraceful that some of you expect people to ignore serious moral failures just because they happen to have been committed by a member of their own party.

Welcome to the past twenty-five years of internal Democratic politics. There are very few nationally prominent Democrats in this country whose political careers have never depended on pretending that Bill Clinton is anything other than a national disgrace.

It is not good politics for anyone within the Sanders campaign to focus on this, for obvious reasons. And there is an element of unfairness in targeting Hillary without acknowledging that much of the Democratic Party shares in her complicity. Obviously, going to war with the entire party in 2015 because it didn't treat Bill Clinton like Andrew Johnson in 1998 wouldn't make much sense either.

That said, it amazes me that so many Democrats continue to bristle when forced to confront the fact that Bill Clinton is a sexual predator - and one who routinely used his power and influence to intimidate and to shame women, especially Lewinsky, into silence. The latter fact taints the reputation of almost anyone who has ever been a member of Bill Clinton's inner circle, and I hope that someday when enough time has passed and enough important people are dead, the Democratic Party will be willing to reckon with this.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2016, 09:30:33 AM »

Side note:
Let's not forget that Lewinsky has 50% to blame, for the affair she had with Bill Clinton (It takes two to tango.)
She was an adult, and made a choice to "involve" herself with a man, who she knew was married.
And by making this choice, Lewinsky provoked the expected anger of the married woman (Mrs. Clinton). (What did you expect ..... for Hillary to bake Lewinsky a cake ?)

I've long thought that the House of Representatives dropped the ball by only impeaching Bill Clinton as president, and not also impeaching Monica Lewinsky as White House intern.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2016, 11:19:33 AM »

For anyone having any doubt about Sanders' hypocrisy, he was asked about Dawson's comment by Jake Tapper and declined to condemn it.
The man has become a bona fide Bernie bro.
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2016, 01:04:51 PM »

Side note:
Let's not forget that Lewinsky has 50% to blame, for the affair she had with Bill Clinton (It takes two to tango.)
She was an adult, and made a choice to "involve" herself with a man, who she knew was married.
And by making this choice, Lewinsky provoked the expected anger of the married woman (Mrs. Clinton). (What did you expect ..... for Hillary to bake Lewinsky a cake ?)

power dynamics, bubs. a 22-year-old intern and her boss, the leader of the free world who is also over twice her age, aren't exactly on equal footing. same reason teacher-student relationships are so skeevy even if the student is of legal age
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NHI
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« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2016, 01:22:12 PM »

Ugh, not another one. These surrogates need some serious vetting. It's just stupid that they would bring this up.
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BundouYMB
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« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2016, 01:25:39 PM »

It's absolutely disgusting that some people seem to blame Hillary for Bill cheating on her. That sort of thought process comes straight out of the 1950s and I can't believe I see some dressed up version of it coming from self-proclaimed progressives in the 21st century. I agree that what what Bill did was "skeevy" as evergreen put it, both because of the power dynamics at play AND because I happen to believe that cheating on your wife is wrong regardless of who you do it with, but the chain of thought that leads people to somehow hold Hillary responsible is deeply rooted in sexism (the idea it's a wife's job to "keep her husband loyal" and it's somehow her failing as a wife if he is, well, first of all, absolutely disgusting, and secondly of all is completely regressive, conservative, sexist and reads like it could have came straight out of one of those anti-women's rights pamphlets from the 1950s.)

The fact that some people want Hillary to be forced to sit and "answer questions" about Bill's cheating is so far beyond the pale, so completely ridiculous and offensive, I literally have no words to properly express how I feel about it.
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2016, 01:30:46 PM »

It's absolutely disgusting that some people seem to blame Hillary for Bill cheating on her. That sort of thought process comes straight out of the 1950s and I can't believe I see some dressed up version of it coming from self-proclaimed progressives in the 21st century. I agree that what what Bill did was "skeevy" as evergreen put it, both because of the power dynamics at play AND because I happen to believe that cheating on your wife is wrong regardless of who you do it with, but the chain of thought that leads people to somehow hold Hillary responsible is deeply rooted in sexism (the idea it's a wife's job to "keep her husband loyal" and it's somehow her failing as a wife if he is, well, first of all, absolutely disgusting, and secondly of all is completely regressive, conservative, sexist and reads like it could have came straight out of one of those anti-women's rights pamphlets from the 1950s.)

The fact that some people want Hillary to be forced to sit and "answer questions" about Bill's cheating is so far beyond the pale, so completely ridiculous and offensive, I literally have no words to properly express how I feel about it.
of course hillary isn't responsible for what bill did (does?), but she's very much responsible for her responses to it
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BundouYMB
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« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2016, 01:58:15 PM »
« Edited: April 24, 2016, 02:00:26 PM by BundouYMB »

It's absolutely disgusting that some people seem to blame Hillary for Bill cheating on her. That sort of thought process comes straight out of the 1950s and I can't believe I see some dressed up version of it coming from self-proclaimed progressives in the 21st century. I agree that what what Bill did was "skeevy" as evergreen put it, both because of the power dynamics at play AND because I happen to believe that cheating on your wife is wrong regardless of who you do it with, but the chain of thought that leads people to somehow hold Hillary responsible is deeply rooted in sexism (the idea it's a wife's job to "keep her husband loyal" and it's somehow her failing as a wife if he is, well, first of all, absolutely disgusting, and secondly of all is completely regressive, conservative, sexist and reads like it could have came straight out of one of those anti-women's rights pamphlets from the 1950s.)

The fact that some people want Hillary to be forced to sit and "answer questions" about Bill's cheating is so far beyond the pale, so completely ridiculous and offensive, I literally have no words to properly express how I feel about it.
of course hillary isn't responsible for what bill did (does?), but she's very much responsible for her responses to it

I'm not even going to bother asking what issue you have with Hillary and how she dealt with being cheated on because frankly I don't think I want to know, and instead will stick to asking what on God's green earth makes you feel entitled to tell Hillary how she should respond to Bill's cheating on her? Hillary's a victim of Bill's cheating too, the primary victim in my opinion, and in a personal capacity she's entitled to respond to that however she wants and moreover she's entitled to privacy on the matter.

If you actually care about Hillary's opinions about, say, power dynamics in sex then I think that's totally legitimate and something that she can be asked about (without ever bringing up Lewinsky) and something I would also want to hear her opinions about.

However, using Monica Lewinsky as a framework and wanting Hillary to be dragged in front of television cameras to answer a series of degrading questions about Bill's cheating on her so that a bunch of moral busy bodies can decide whether they approve of her feelings about the matter fails to acknowledge Hillary's status as a fellow victim of Bill's cheating and is just grossly inappropriate on so many levels, and if you really think the people calling for this actually care about power dynamics in sex or similar issues you're being painfully naive. They don't. They're either obscene sexists following the line of logic I outlined above or simply Hillary haters who want to see her humiliated in as many ways as possible and by defending and enabling them you're doing nothing to raise awareness for the feminist causes you claim to support, and are in fact actively enabling other forms of sexism.
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« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2016, 02:23:08 PM »

Let's not forget that the Clinton-Lewinsky relationship began with Lewinsky approaching the him out of the blue and saying, "Hey Mr. President, I'm wearing a thong. Want to see?" and showing it to him.

Obviously Clinton was still in the wrong for participating in the affair, but this Republican/Sandernista narrative that Clinton seduced and coerced an innocent young girl is blatantly false. She was a willing participant, and doesn't even deny that.
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Ogre Mage
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« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2016, 02:32:39 PM »

One annoying thing about Trump winning the nom will be that we'll have to re-litigate this tedious bullsh**t from 20 years ago

This is a broader point that many people are missing, yes. While it's idiotic for this to come up during the primary, it's not actually going to do any real damage to her that wouldn't be done otherwise. It's going to be everywhere in the general, and it's going to be there whether Trump is the nominee or not (do people think non-Trump candidates won't drag all of it up?).

Yup. Hillary should really figure out how to address this head on, 'cuz despite what she'd like to see happen, this is not going to go away.

Either Donald Trump or Ted Cruz is going to be the Republican nominee so if the Right Wing wants to bring up Monica Lewinsky, let them.  There is personal material in Cruz and especially Trump's life which can be examined also.  Should be fun, since the GOP is the party of "moral values."  (LOL)
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2016, 03:02:58 PM »

1) Hillary Clinton is not responsible for her husband committing an affair and committing perjury attempting to cover it up.

2) What the Clintons did to Lewinsky is shameful. Tried to smear and threaten her before they knew she had evidence against them.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2016, 03:04:59 PM »

Side note:
Let's not forget that Lewinsky has 50% to blame, for the affair she had with Bill Clinton (It takes two to tango.)
She was an adult, and made a choice to "involve" herself with a man, who she knew was married.
And by making this choice, Lewinsky provoked the expected anger of the married woman (Mrs. Clinton). (What did you expect ..... for Hillary to bake Lewinsky a cake ?)


Roll Eyes
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tallguy23
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« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2016, 12:53:59 AM »

My feelings on the Clinton-Lewinsky affair: I don't care. This is one of the few times I wish America was more like France when it came to a politician's private life.

Half of Americans who ridiculed Clinton for adultery were probably cheating on their spouse at the same time. How about people start worrying about their own families and relationships.
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Dr. Arch
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« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2016, 12:55:23 AM »

Given the campaign message death spiral Bernie has gone into, I think he has lost me as a supporter during the primary season.
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SillyAmerican
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« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2016, 12:53:05 PM »

clinton's actions w/r/t her husband's long history of rape and abuse are absolutely a relevant issue to her qualifications as president. it's disgraceful that some of you expect people to ignore serious moral failures just because they happen to have been committed by a member of their own party.

But did he actually rape anyone or is this just accusations of a powerful political figure? Personally I don't buy into that crap unless there is proof, or some sort of Cosby-like situation.

Come on. What Bill Clinton did would get any CEO in the country canned immediately. Period. As a person in charge and dealing with a young intern, you simply don't put yourself in that position. Most people understand this. And Bill and Hillary would have been more than happy to throw Ms. Lewinsky under the bus and let the press wolves have at her; she would have been ripped to shreds were it not for her being able to produce a particular blue dress. (So apparently what she was saying wasn't crap, because there was proof. Happy now?)
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« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2016, 01:02:45 PM »

Side note:
Let's not forget that Lewinsky has 50% to blame, for the affair she had with Bill Clinton (It takes two to tango.)
She was an adult, and made a choice to "involve" herself with a man, who she knew was married.

Except he was the most powerful man on earth, while she was a lowly intern. Hardly a balanced tango.
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dspNY
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« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2016, 01:04:24 PM »

My feelings on the Clinton-Lewinsky affair: I don't care. This is one of the few times I wish America was more like France when it came to a politician's private life.

Half of Americans who ridiculed Clinton for adultery were probably cheating on their spouse at the same time. How about people start worrying about their own families and relationships.

As it turned out, Dennis Hastert had his own problem with underage boys--far worse than an intern in the White House
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Virginiá
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« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2016, 01:06:09 PM »

Come on. What Bill Clinton did would get any CEO in the country canned immediately. Period. As a person in charge and dealing with a young intern, you simply don't put yourself in that position. Most people understand this. And Bill and Hillary would have been more than happy to throw Ms. Lewinsky under the bus and let the press wolves have at her; she would have been ripped to shreds were it not for her being able to produce a particular blue dress. (So apparently what she was saying wasn't crap, because there was proof. Happy now?)

Well, you basically just responded to an assertion I never made. I asked if there was any proof he raped or even assaulted anyone. Ms. Lewinsky has stated many times that the relationship was consensual, even if inappropriate. Other than that, all I see are pretty petty & thin accusations with absolutely zero proof.


Except he was the most powerful man on earth, while she was a lowly intern. Hardly a balanced tango.

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Kalwejt
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« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2016, 03:25:35 PM »

Except he was the most powerful man on earth, while she was a lowly intern. Hardly a balanced tango.



A very important difference, actually. He was a boss, she was his employee. It's still very inappropriate in a professional sense, even though the impeachment circus was nothing short of bulls**t.

That being said, the whole matter is absolutely irrelevant regarding this election. I'm really disappointed Bernie campaign is dodging addressing Dawson's remarks, while Hillary campaign said "thank you, bye" to Ferraro after her 2008 comment.

And, yeah, it was quite dumb politically.
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Virginiá
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« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2016, 05:45:28 PM »

A very important difference, actually. He was a boss, she was his employee. It's still very inappropriate in a professional sense, even though the impeachment circus was nothing short of bulls**t.

That being said, the whole matter is absolutely irrelevant regarding this election. I'm really disappointed Bernie campaign is dodging addressing Dawson's remarks, while Hillary campaign said "thank you, bye" to Ferraro after her 2008 comment.

And, yeah, it was quite dumb politically.

Well, it certainly was inappropriate from my point of view, and I generally don't think bosses should be screwing their subordinates. However, when I say that, I only think it's "wrong" in that I frown on it, but no one should lose their jobs or really get in trouble. At most, move her to another building and give her another position (which, iirc, they did do).

The reason I posted that image/remark is because despite being inappropriate, she is a grown woman. She could have declined his advances, or requested to be moved as stated above, or quit entirely. Hell, she could have went to the press, and with that, she has an enormous amount of power, arguably more than Clinton himself. Instead, she willingly engaged in an affair. She had options, and she instead did something she wanted to do.

But for the record, there are positions I feel differently about. Teacher/student relationships are a no-no for me if it is high school, but mainly for age/maturity-related reasons, among others.
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