Would Bernie supporters still be as terrible if it was Warren vs Sanders?

[angus]

I have to wonder if the hate of her is unique

True enough.  

Like tmc, I haven't met any really obnoxious Sanders supporter, but maybe pointing out Clinton's many faults makes us all obnoxious.  

I voted no because I think that Warren doesn't provide the fodder.  When she is shrill, it is about the same sort of stuff that Sanders is shrill about:  Wall Street executives destroying the economy and the widening income gap.  Both Warren and Sanders were for marijuana and single-payer before it was cool.  On foreign policy, Warren not as far from Sanders as Clinton is.  She favors a Palestinian state, is anti-war, and has long opposed continuing US involvement in Afghanistan.  All three have similar positions on campaign finance reform, but Sanders has actually collected all his 182 million dollars from 7 million individual donors, whereas Clinton has collected about a third of her 260 million from political action committees.

More importantly, Warren didn't hire private investigators and thugs to follow women around, back when was First Lady of Arkansas, to bully them into silence because she put her husband's (and her) career ahead of the benefit of the people.  I don't know quite as much about Warren, but I've never thought she had a criminal psychology and she doesn't exhibit symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder.  I do know that she is an an old-fashioned girl from Oklahoma and a blue-collar background.  She started waiting tables as a teenager and worked to put herself through university and law school.  

If you think it's vicious now, wait till the general election.  By then it won't just be the supporters but the campaigns who will go negative.  The GOP will manage to nominate Trump, who has about the same level of integrity as Clinton, but who lacks the filter.  The reason I think it will be especially negative is because unlike in previous years, when the Republican establishment could put its many millions of dollars into making advertisements for their candidates, this year they have a candidate that they can't sell.  Their only choice will be to spend money going negative.  The same situation will be the case in the Democrat national party.  Both parties will go negative early and often, and because Clinton and Trump are both so dirty by the end of it, we will have an exhausted and cynical electorate and a very low voter turnout.  I do not think this would be the case if the Democrats nominated someone other than Clinton and the Republicans nominate someone other than Trump.  

[angus]

Obviously this is anecdotal, but I bumped into a ridiculously ignorant Sanders supporter while waiting for my friend at his school. Apparently the only reason Hillary won anywhere was massive voter fraud. First time I've ever heard that level of ignorance from someone in-person, even when compared to the rather dumb stuff I've heard the past couple months from people I actually know / am friends with. On top of that, reddit, a place I used to love is now a cesspool of anti-Hillary / pro-Bernie ignorance and delusion. Obviously that place was never a bastion of substantive discussion, but it's gotten extremely toxic since Sanders came into vogue. There is no better example imo than reddit, but there are more.

The problem with what Sanders is doing is that he's painting her as a corrupt plutocrat who will immediately screw over everyone when she gets elected. I really don't think she's any worse than most other politicians in that regard. There are good reasons to think that she will try to do what she has promised if elected, but it is impossible to talk to people about her when they have been conditioned to believe she will screw them over after getting elected, because it gives them a way to deny any argument against their views as they resort to these accusations and future predictions that really cannot be disproved (and not because there is damning evidence, either). Bernie's campaign and the media have been exceptionally efficient in her character assassination.

anecdotal bits are interesting.  

I try to avoid political discussion with the ignorant and I haven't visited reddit, but I have no trouble imagining rabid, unwashed Sanders supporters.  Would his supporters be as obnoxious with Warren as with Clinton?  We can't say for sure, but I don't think so.

I agree that she's not a plutocrat, but we might argue over how corrupt she can be.  She will not necessarily go out of her way to wreak havoc.  Sanders has used emotionally-motivated rhetoric, such as when he said she was "unqualified" to be president.  No matter how much I mistrust her, I would concede that her resume is superior to anyone running against her from any party this year.  A well-polished candidate has a built-in advantage, and I think that Sanders is figuring that out, but it doesn't excuse some of his excesses.  Still, from what I can tell most of the "character assassination" is the normal sort we see every season.  I don't hold it against him when he reminds us that she is prone to political expediency.  That's one of the least provocative charges he could legitimately lay against her.

[angus]

You're stoked, man. 

Seems that we're on the same team at the moment:  I agree with your comments about experience.  Obviously many voters are willing to overlook Clinton's blind ambition, especially loyal Democrats who can discount me in November.  I'm up for supporting Bernie tomorrow morning.  Should he actually get nominated, he can count on my support in the fall.  Feel the Bern.

(off-topic, but some revisionist historians are giving Buchanan a second look.  At least around here.  There have been a number of op-ed pieces in his favor lately.)

[angus]

They weren't particularly terrible today.  I was looking out for political propaganda on my drive to work, and the only signs I noticed were for congressional and legislative races.  I did see striking workers downtown at Verizon offices.  They have been there for over a week.  Always at least four or five people with "stand up to Verizon" boards and signs walking about the block in front.  I only noticed two pieces of propaganda on campus, both for Sanders.  One was a poster on a bulletin board, which I'm sure an administrator will remove once it gets noticed, and the other was a door hanger, the kind that usually say "do not disturb" on hotel doors, but this one had a picture of Sanders and said it said something about Revolution.

¡Hasta la victoria siempre! 

[angus]

Things are picking up.  In the two hours since I've posted, I've seen Bernie schwag on three backpacks and one ancient, tattered Rock The Vote t-shirt.  I have not yet seen any Clinton, Cruz, or Trump memorabilia or shirts or signs today.

I'll probably take off early, around 3, to vote.  I thought about doing it at 8ish but I thought there may be a line.  In 31 years of voting, I've never had to wait in line to vote.  Or I've never had to wait for more than a two or three people, to be honest, but I keep hearing of long lines, especially this year in Pennsylvania because maybe the primary here matters.  I think 3 to 4 pm would be a decent timeslot.  I'm thinking of picking up my son first and taking him there.  I wouldn't have bored him with this in the past, but they're discussing the election in his SS class.  He likes Trump.  They all like Trump.  Trump is very popular with the current fifth-grade class at Landis Run intermediate school.  I guess it's going to bum him out when I tell him that I'm voting for someone other than Trump.