Religious Freedom in Missouri bill dies in committee

[HAnnA MArin County]

Per St Louis Today. Kudos to three Missouri Republicans (who will probably be primaried for this) for being a smidgen saner than their colleagues in North Carolina and Mississippi.

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/religious-freedom-measure-dies-in-missouri-house-committee/article_484831a3-542d-5bb8-a673-34cf90241512.html

[RightBehind]

The idea of a religious freedom bill in this country is a mirage. There's no need for something we already have.

[SteveRogers]

The idea of a religious freedom bill in this country is a mirage. There's no need for something we already have.

This is especially true when you realize that the newest crop of "religious freedom" bills don't even purport to grant any far-reaching protection for religious beliefs generally. If you actually read the text, these bills only protect one oddly specific religious belief, i.e. a sincere conviction to discriminate against gays.

[user12345]

S/O to those three freedom Republicans

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

S/O to those three freedom Republicans

Freedom Republicans support bills like this.

[This account no longer in use.]

S/O to those three freedom Republicans

Freedom Republicans support bills like this.

How is discrimination against groups of people freedom?

[HAnnA MArin County]

S/O to those three freedom Republicans

Freedom Republicans support bills like this.

How is discrimination against groups of people freedom?

Because Jesus said being a queer is wrong and the government is now shoving the gay thing down people's throats. #KimDavis2016

[TDAS04]

Good. 

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

S/O to those three freedom Republicans

Freedom Republicans support bills like this.

How is discrimination against groups of people freedom?

It gives the right to practice religions without government interference.

[Ebsy]

I was glad to hear this. Missouri doesn't need to bad publicity.

[Virginiá]

S/O to those three freedom Republicans

Freedom Republicans support bills like this.

How is discrimination against groups of people freedom?

It gives the right to practice religions without government interference.

lol please! It's so blatantly obvious what these sham bills are about. Not including the fact that we already have freedom to practice religion in this country. These bills are just a vehicle for bigots to be able to practice state-sanctioned discrimination.

[RightBehind]

S/O to those three freedom Republicans

Freedom Republicans support bills like this.

How is discrimination against groups of people freedom?

It gives the right to practice religions without government interference.

We don't need another bill for that. We already have the First Amendment. This is code for discriminating against gays.

[SteveRogers]

S/O to those three freedom Republicans

Freedom Republicans support bills like this.

How is discrimination against groups of people freedom?

It gives the right to practice religions without government interference.

Have you read this bill?

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Well, you guys see, a lot of people believe that homosexuality is a sin and don't want to support any of it. Because religion is the main reason people oppose homosexuality, religious people want their ability to practice what they believe. Forcing people to go against their religion isn't a good thing. (most of the time, some cults believe that vaccines are bad and support polygamy, but they aren't as vocal in their oppositions)

[SteveRogers]

Well, you guys see, a lot of people believe that homosexuality is a sin and don't want to support any of it. Because religion is the main reason people oppose homosexuality, religious people want their ability to practice what they believe. Forcing people to go against their religion isn't a good thing. (most of the time, some cults believe that vaccines are bad and support polygamy, but they aren't as vocal in their oppositions)

But this bill and the others like it don't create some broad right to practice religion freely or to deny service to anyone based on religious beliefs. If you read the thing, you'll find that it only protects one very specific set of religious beliefs. Just the one belief really: opposition to gay marriage.

[RightBehind]

Well, you guys see, a lot of people believe that homosexuality is a sin and don't want to support any of it. Because religion is the main reason people oppose homosexuality, religious people want their ability to practice what they believe. Forcing people to go against their religion isn't a good thing. (most of the time, some cults believe that vaccines are bad and support polygamy, but they aren't as vocal in their oppositions)

Except, according to Christian scripture, everybody is a sinner. Who makes homosexuality so bad of a sin compares to others? You (in general) might think homosexuality is a sin, then you'll get your mistress pregnant and push for her to have an abortion.

Was scripture not justified during slavery and segregation? What about with women's rights?

This is just like Roe V. Wade. Being the sore losers conservatives are, they cannot abolish gay marriage altogether, so they'll look for other ways to undermine the gays.

[Virginiá]

Well, you guys see, a lot of people believe that homosexuality is a sin and don't want to support any of it. Because religion is the main reason people oppose homosexuality, religious people want their ability to practice what they believe. Forcing people to go against their religion isn't a good thing. (most of the time, some cults believe that vaccines are bad and support polygamy, but they aren't as vocal in their oppositions)

Except, according to Christian scripture, everybody is a sinner. Who makes homosexuality so bad of a sin compares to others? You (in general) might think homosexuality is a sin, then you'll get your mistress pregnant and push for her to have an abortion.

See, this is one of the things that bothers me. They are just singling out sins while ignoring the rest, which, coincidentally, pretty much explains the basis of all modern practice of Christianity.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Well, you guys see, a lot of people believe that homosexuality is a sin and don't want to support any of it. Because religion is the main reason people oppose homosexuality, religious people want their ability to practice what they believe. Forcing people to go against their religion isn't a good thing. (most of the time, some cults believe that vaccines are bad and support polygamy, but they aren't as vocal in their oppositions)

Except, according to Christian scripture, everybody is a sinner. Who makes homosexuality so bad of a sin compares to others? You (in general) might think homosexuality is a sin, then you'll get your mistress pregnant and push for her to have an abortion.

Was scripture not justified during slavery and segregation? What about with women's rights?

This is just like Roe V. Wade. Being the sore losers conservatives are, they cannot abolish gay marriage altogether, so they'll look for other ways to undermine the gays.

Those laws only applied to the Jews of their day or only applied in the society they lived in during both Testaments.

[HAnnA MArin County]

Well, you guys see, a lot of people believe that homosexuality is a sin and don't want to support any of it. Because religion is the main reason people oppose homosexuality, religious people want their ability to practice what they believe. Forcing people to go against their religion isn't a good thing. (most of the time, some cults believe that vaccines are bad and support polygamy, but they aren't as vocal in their oppositions)

Except, according to Christian scripture, everybody is a sinner. Who makes homosexuality so bad of a sin compares to others? You (in general) might think homosexuality is a sin, then you'll get your mistress pregnant and push for her to have an abortion.

Was scripture not justified during slavery and segregation? What about with women's rights?

This is just like Roe V. Wade. Being the sore losers conservatives are, they cannot abolish gay marriage altogether, so they'll look for other ways to undermine the gays.

Those laws only applied to the Jews of their day or only applied in the society they lived in during both Testaments.

Okay so you're saying that those laws only applied to a "different time." Well, it's 2016, this IS a different time, and the archaic biblical scriptures of which you speak do not apply today. You can't have it both ways. If you're really a "Christian," you believe the Bible is infallible and that every single word of it must be followed; therefore, you must believe that adulterers should be stoned and that men shouldn't shave and that women shouldn't be teachers and that children who stray away from their religion should be punished and that you must believe it's okay to give your virgin daughters away for them to be raped. That's all in the Bible. The Bible also says that we shouldn't eat lobster or wear clothes of mixed fabrics.

No, you're picking out one "sin" while blatantly ignoring all the other sins. You cannot pick and choose doctrines to follow by saying that "oh it was a different time, slavery was okay then;" otherwise, you're not a Christian: you're a hypocrite, but then again, most all "Christians" who want "religious freedom" are. Hiding behind the Bible to justify your bigotry and hatred is not a Christian value, and more and more people are coming around to see this the more these so-called "evangelical Christians" in the Religious Right try to push these discriminatory bills in the name of "muh Jesus said so."

As someone said on here, the Bible bigots know they've lost the culture war on this issue, and are just desperately trying to do anything to cry foul. It's time to take your ball and go home, because progress has been made and in America, we only go forward, we don't go backwards. The apocalypse didn't occur when Massachusetts legalized marriage equality in 2004, and it didn't occur when SCOTUS legalized it nationally; either Jesus just doesn't care or he's too busy wondering why, in a country that allegedly calls itself a Christian country, are so many people homeless? Why, in a country that allegedly calls itself a Christian country, do we not take care of our own? Why, in a country that allegedly calls itself a Christian country, do we not do more to protect our citizens from real threats: global warming, gun violence, murder, rape, poverty, hunger? These are the real enemies and threats to Christianity, not the gays.

[RightBehind]

Well, you guys see, a lot of people believe that homosexuality is a sin and don't want to support any of it. Because religion is the main reason people oppose homosexuality, religious people want their ability to practice what they believe. Forcing people to go against their religion isn't a good thing. (most of the time, some cults believe that vaccines are bad and support polygamy, but they aren't as vocal in their oppositions)

Except, according to Christian scripture, everybody is a sinner. Who makes homosexuality so bad of a sin compares to others? You (in general) might think homosexuality is a sin, then you'll get your mistress pregnant and push for her to have an abortion.

Was scripture not justified during slavery and segregation? What about with women's rights?

This is just like Roe V. Wade. Being the sore losers conservatives are, they cannot abolish gay marriage altogether, so they'll look for other ways to undermine the gays.

Those laws only applied to the Jews of their day or only applied in the society they lived in during both Testaments.

Like the poster above me said, this is a different time, and yes, look it up, so called religious freedom was used to discriminate to keep America racially segregated and against interracial marriage.


If you are a Christian, you are a sinner in the eyes of your God. Homosexual or not. Stop acting like you're any better than gay people because of your orientation. You aren't.

[user12345]

Well, you guys see, a lot of people believe that homosexuality is a sin and don't want to support any of it. Because religion is the main reason people oppose homosexuality, religious people want their ability to practice what they believe. Forcing people to go against their religion isn't a good thing. (most of the time, some cults believe that vaccines are bad and support polygamy, but they aren't as vocal in their oppositions)

Except, according to Christian scripture, everybody is a sinner. Who makes homosexuality so bad of a sin compares to others? You (in general) might think homosexuality is a sin, then you'll get your mistress pregnant and push for her to have an abortion.

Was scripture not justified during slavery and segregation? What about with women's rights?

This is just like Roe V. Wade. Being the sore losers conservatives are, they cannot abolish gay marriage altogether, so they'll look for other ways to undermine the gays.

Those laws only applied to the Jews of their day or only applied in the society they lived in during both Testaments.

Okay so you're saying that those laws only applied to a "different time." Well, it's 2016, this IS a different time, and the archaic biblical scriptures of which you speak do not apply today. You can't have it both ways. If you're really a "Christian," you believe the Bible is infallible and that every single word of it must be followed; therefore, you must believe that adulterers should be stoned and that men shouldn't shave and that women shouldn't be teachers and that children who stray away from their religion should be punished and that you must believe it's okay to give your virgin daughters away for them to be raped. That's all in the Bible. The Bible also says that we shouldn't eat lobster or wear clothes of mixed fabrics.

No, you're picking out one "sin" while blatantly ignoring all the other sins. You cannot pick and choose doctrines to follow by saying that "oh it was a different time, slavery was okay then;" otherwise, you're not a Christian: you're a hypocrite, but then again, most all "Christians" who want "religious freedom" are. Hiding behind the Bible to justify your bigotry and hatred is not a Christian value, and more and more people are coming around to see this the more these so-called "evangelical Christians" in the Religious Right try to push these discriminatory bills in the name of "muh Jesus said so."

As someone said on here, the Bible bigots know they've lost the culture war on this issue, and are just desperately trying to do anything to cry foul. It's time to take your ball and go home, because progress has been made and in America, we only go forward, we don't go backwards. The apocalypse didn't occur when Massachusetts legalized marriage equality in 2004, and it didn't occur when SCOTUS legalized it nationally; either Jesus just doesn't care or he's too busy wondering why, in a country that allegedly calls itself a Christian country, are so many people homeless? Why, in a country that allegedly calls itself a Christian country, do we not take care of our own? Why, in a country that allegedly calls itself a Christian country, do we not do more to protect our citizens from real threats: global warming, gun violence, murder, rape, poverty, hunger? These are the real enemies and threats to Christianity, not the gays.

A good majority of Evangelical Christians also don't seem to understand that when Jesus died on the cross and redeemed all from their sins he fulfilled the Old Testament law and therefore the rules the OT set for people are no longer in effect.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

A good majority of Evangelical Christians also don't seem to understand that when Jesus died on the cross and redeemed all from their sins he fulfilled the Old Testament law and therefore the rules the OT set for people are no longer in effect.

True, but homosexuality is also condemned by Paul in the New Testament.  So is witchcraft, sorcery, lying, murder, theft, and countless other things that were forbidden in the OT laws.  The Jewish ceremonial laws were fulfilled when Jesus died, and I would agree that many of those laws are no longer in effect (e.g. prohibition against tattoos, not wearing clothing with more than one material. the Jewish feast days and sacrifices), but the moral standards of God's law remain the same.  No Christian in their right mind would say that it's OK to murder, steal, commit adultery, or violate any of the Ten Commandments except the Sabbath, which they make excuses for by trying to make it part of the ceremonial law instead of the Ten Commandments.  So while I don't think that Christians have to keep Passover or Yom Kippur or have to sacrifice goats, bulls, and sheep for sin offerings, I do believe there are basic moral standards that never change from OT times.

I am NOT defending or supporting these kind of bigoted, discriminatory bills guising as "religious freedom."  In fact, I believe they are a slippery slope that could lead to justification for other kinds of discrimination.  But to imply that homosexuality isn't a sin because Jesus' death fulfills the Old Covenant doesn't tell the whole story of what the Bible says about it.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Well, you guys see, a lot of people believe that homosexuality is a sin and don't want to support any of it. Because religion is the main reason people oppose homosexuality, religious people want their ability to practice what they believe. Forcing people to go against their religion isn't a good thing. (most of the time, some cults believe that vaccines are bad and support polygamy, but they aren't as vocal in their oppositions)

Except, according to Christian scripture, everybody is a sinner. Who makes homosexuality so bad of a sin compares to others? You (in general) might think homosexuality is a sin, then you'll get your mistress pregnant and push for her to have an abortion.

Was scripture not justified during slavery and segregation? What about with women's rights?

This is just like Roe V. Wade. Being the sore losers conservatives are, they cannot abolish gay marriage altogether, so they'll look for other ways to undermine the gays.

Those laws only applied to the Jews of their day or only applied in the society they lived in during both Testaments.

Okay so you're saying that those laws only applied to a "different time." Well, it's 2016, this IS a different time, and the archaic biblical scriptures of which you speak do not apply today. You can't have it both ways. If you're really a "Christian," you believe the Bible is infallible and that every single word of it must be followed; therefore, you must believe that adulterers should be stoned and that men shouldn't shave and that women shouldn't be teachers and that children who stray away from their religion should be punished and that you must believe it's okay to give your virgin daughters away for them to be raped. That's all in the Bible. The Bible also says that we shouldn't eat lobster or wear clothes of mixed fabrics.

Once again, only applied to the Jews of their day, especially the punishments.  That's the reason Jesus died in the first place. Considering how many varieties of Christianity there are, that "if you really are a Christian" statement doesn't apply either by fallacy.

I'm not a full supporter of these bills, I just want people to see a deeper reason why someone would support them. These people are genuine in their belief, they don't want to cater to a same sex wedding. In fact, I know people who refuse to perform one. And the bills should only apply to religious organizations anyway.

[RightBehind]

A good majority of Evangelical Christians also don't seem to understand that when Jesus died on the cross and redeemed all from their sins he fulfilled the Old Testament law and therefore the rules the OT set for people are no longer in effect.

True, but homosexuality is also condemned by Paul in the New Testament.  So is witchcraft, sorcery, lying, murder, theft, and countless other things that were forbidden in the OT laws.  The Jewish ceremonial laws were fulfilled when Jesus died, and I would agree that many of those laws are no longer in effect (e.g. prohibition against tattoos, not wearing clothing with more than one material. the Jewish feast days and sacrifices), but the moral standards of God's law remain the same.  No Christian in their right mind would say that it's OK to murder, steal, commit adultery, or violate any of the Ten Commandments except the Sabbath, which they make excuses for by trying to make it part of the ceremonial law instead of the Ten Commandments.  So while I don't think that Christians have to keep Passover or Yom Kippur or have to sacrifice goats, bulls, and sheep for sin offerings, I do believe there are basic moral standards that never change from OT times.

I am NOT defending or supporting these kind of bigoted, discriminatory bills guising as "religious freedom."  In fact, I believe they are a slippery slope that could lead to justification for other kinds of discrimination.  But to imply that homosexuality isn't a sin because Jesus' death fulfills the Old Covenant doesn't tell the whole story of what the Bible says about it.

Whether homosexuality is a sin or not is of no concern to me. The Bible is not the law of the land, and one can sin without breaking the law.

[RightBehind]

Well, you guys see, a lot of people believe that homosexuality is a sin and don't want to support any of it. Because religion is the main reason people oppose homosexuality, religious people want their ability to practice what they believe. Forcing people to go against their religion isn't a good thing. (most of the time, some cults believe that vaccines are bad and support polygamy, but they aren't as vocal in their oppositions)

Except, according to Christian scripture, everybody is a sinner. Who makes homosexuality so bad of a sin compares to others? You (in general) might think homosexuality is a sin, then you'll get your mistress pregnant and push for her to have an abortion.

Was scripture not justified during slavery and segregation? What about with women's rights?

This is just like Roe V. Wade. Being the sore losers conservatives are, they cannot abolish gay marriage altogether, so they'll look for other ways to undermine the gays.

Those laws only applied to the Jews of their day or only applied in the society they lived in during both Testaments.

Okay so you're saying that those laws only applied to a "different time." Well, it's 2016, this IS a different time, and the archaic biblical scriptures of which you speak do not apply today. You can't have it both ways. If you're really a "Christian," you believe the Bible is infallible and that every single word of it must be followed; therefore, you must believe that adulterers should be stoned and that men shouldn't shave and that women shouldn't be teachers and that children who stray away from their religion should be punished and that you must believe it's okay to give your virgin daughters away for them to be raped. That's all in the Bible. The Bible also says that we shouldn't eat lobster or wear clothes of mixed fabrics.

Once again, only applied to the Jews of their day, especially the punishments.  That's the reason Jesus died in the first place. Considering how many varieties of Christianity there are, that "if you really are a Christian" statement doesn't apply either by fallacy.

I'm not a full supporter of these bills, I just want people to see a deeper reason why someone would support them. These people are genuine in their belief, they don't want to cater to a same sex wedding. In fact, I know people who refuse to perform one. And the bills should only apply to religious organizations anyway.

Maybe they only applied to them in their day, but you cannot deny the non-usage of it in our country's history.