Which country would be better for American progressives? (UK, AU, NZ, CA, IR)
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  Which country would be better for American progressives? (UK, AU, NZ, CA, IR)
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Question: Which countries would be better for American progressives?
#1
United Kingdom
 
#2
Ireland
 
#3
Canada
 
#4
Australia
 
#5
New Zealand
 
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Author Topic: Which country would be better for American progressives? (UK, AU, NZ, CA, IR)  (Read 1812 times)
Blue3
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« on: April 29, 2016, 10:29:37 PM »

Which countries would be better for American progressives?

Please explain why.
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2016, 10:38:57 PM »

The one that currently doesn't have a centre-right government.
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Blue3
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2016, 10:43:11 PM »
« Edited: October 05, 2019, 10:19:11 AM by Blue3 »

The one that currently doesn't have a centre-right government.

I'm not necessarily talking about their current government, but the state of their government/nation.


For example, a country that currently has a rightwing leader that also still has
-single-payer healthcare
-free college
-gay marriage
-nondiscrimination laws
-mandatory paid leave
-quality social security after retirement
-universal childcare and pre-school
-progressive taxation
-strict separation of church and state
-high minimum wage
-high corporate regulation
-decriminalized marijuana
-fair criminal justice system
-high quality labor & consumer protection & environmental laws
-high quality voting/electoral system
-internet neutrality
-massive investments in infrastructure/education/training/science/clean energy
-more diplomatic and dovish foreign policy
-ethical campaign financing
-equal pay for women
-youth jobs programs
-support for afterschool and summer learning programs
-strict gun regulations
-high quality treatment of any native populations

etc.

should rank much higher than a country with none of those things but currently has a leftwing leader.
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2016, 10:57:13 PM »

True, but in policy respects all the countries are fairly similar. The type of American progressive who is willing and able to leave is likely well-off financially, and could make do in any of these countries. The main reason to leave for them would be for comfort reasons. What exact policies they have aren't going to make a big impact on their lives.

For their purposes, having a centre-left government and culture should be the most important aspects to look for. If they move to a country with a centre-right government, chances are they'll still find plenty to be upset about.
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Santander
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2016, 10:59:39 PM »

Australia, because most of the population favors republicanism. Ireland is disqualified because every election is a choice between two conservative parties.
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Blue3
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2016, 11:01:36 PM »

True, but in policy respects all the countries are fairly similar. The type of American progressive who is willing and able to leave is likely well-off financially, and could make do in any of these countries. The main reason to leave for them would be for comfort reasons. What exact policies they have aren't going to make a big impact on their lives.

For their purposes, having a centre-left government and culture should be the most important aspects to look for. If they move to a country with a centre-right government, chances are they'll still find plenty to be upset about.
The countries may be more similar to each other than to the USA, but there are differences.

For example, the British NHS versus Canadian healthcare, Australia's mandatory voting system but no gay marriage, etc.

I want this thread to be more about learning the differences between them and determining which countries are more progressive.
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2016, 11:12:15 PM »

I'd say the UK is the most economically progressive and Canada the most socially progressive.

Ireland probably disqualifies itself due to abortion and not having a competitive progressive party.

The American centre-left is more similar Canada than UK/NZ/AU which have had stronger socialist movements, although these distinctions are largely gone now.

The left in the UK is the most left-wing out of all these countries, perhaps to the point where an American progressive might be uncomfortable with Labour/Corbyn.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2016, 12:46:26 AM »

From my experience here, left wingers tend to have horrible taste in weather, so probably Canada.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2016, 05:23:43 PM »

Canada followed closely by New Zealand.

Canada was by far the first to legalize gay marriage, it's the most friendly to immigrants.  Canada and New Zealand are more dovish than the UK or Australia.  New Zealand and to a lesser extent Canada have much better records of treatment of indigenous peoples (Australia is more like the US).  It may also surprise some people how much New Zealand has in common with Scandinavian countries (small population in egalitarian society, clean environment, strong welfare/pension/health systems, history of women's rights, etc).
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2016, 11:49:41 PM »

Probably the U. K., as it has the most party alternatives, including the Greens and Liberal Democrats. I voted for the U. K. and Australia. Australia has Labor, Greens, Palmer United, and Katter's Australian. One center-left, one left-wing, one centrist, and one socialist/populist.

New Zealand has Labour, NZ United, United Future, and Mana. One centre-left, one populist centrist, one centrist, and one socialist indigenous. Canada, IMO, has the least ideological diversity between its three left wing parties.

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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2016, 07:14:25 AM »

True, but in policy respects all the countries are fairly similar.

Actually they are all very different. Canada, for instance, has a several limited welfare state and no serious history of State Planning (outside Saskatchewan!) or government involvement in housing policy etc. The United Kingdom is historically/currently an extremely centralised state with only the capital and the parts of it outside England having any degree of regional government or even any history of it. And so on...
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2016, 07:15:19 AM »

Canada have much better records of treatment of indigenous peoples

Um... no. Sorry, but that's not actually true.

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I see that you are a time traveler from the 1960s. New Zealand is a very different country now.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2016, 07:42:02 AM »

You people are very silly.
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Blue3
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« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2016, 03:56:12 PM »

Why are so many going for Canada?
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LLR
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« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2016, 03:57:46 PM »

Canada: dialect is closer, not as far away, same time zone, and I'm part-Canadian so I'm biased Curly
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Santander
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« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2016, 05:29:41 PM »

Why are so many going for Canada?
I'm not sure. Having lived in two of the countries listed here (UK and Canada) and having at least been to all of them, I'm not convinced that Canada is the best choice. Canada's stifling social norms, strong monarchist tradition and relative lack of socialist influence make it not quite as suitable for American progressives as they might think. Everyone I've talked to who's lived in both Canada and the US agrees that they're "so similar, yet so different". I still believe that Australia is the most suitable country for this question.
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Spark
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2016, 10:06:50 PM »

Canada by far. It looks favorably upon much more progressive positions than we would here in the U.S. such as the environment and social issues.
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Blue3
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« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2017, 12:01:24 AM »

Australia, because most of the population favors republicanism. Ireland is disqualified because every election is a choice between two conservative parties.

Well, it looks like Ireland is about to get its first gay prime minister now...




Canada have much better records of treatment of indigenous peoples

Um... no. Sorry, but that's not actually true.

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I see that you are a time traveler from the 1960s. New Zealand is a very different country now.
You didn't explain...
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