Clinton/Warren (D) vs. Trump/Webb (R)
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  Clinton/Warren (D) vs. Trump/Webb (R)
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Poll
Question: Who would win?
#1
Democrat: Clinton/Warren
 
#2
Democrat: Trump/Webb
 
#3
Republican: Clinton/Warren
 
#4
Republican: Trump/Webb
 
#5
independent/third party: Clinton/Warren
 
#6
independent/third party: Trump/Webb
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 72

Author Topic: Clinton/Warren (D) vs. Trump/Webb (R)  (Read 4465 times)
libertpaulian
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« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2016, 08:20:14 PM »

The above posters are right. The only thing Webb could add is keep Indiana and Missouri in the GOP fold. He might make in roads in Ohio and maybe even swing over Virginia, maybe. But as far as helping Trump win Michigan and Pennsylvania? That's gotta be a joke.

Webb could be something of a map-expander for the Democrats, he appeals to certain elements of the Republican base. But he is certainly not going to put Democratic states like Pennsylvania and Michigan in play for the Republicans.
He's a Southerner.  He could help Trump keep FL, NC, and VA.  And like you said, maybe help Trump deliver OH.  Then, all Trump would need to do is win a tiny swing state like NH or IA.


You seem to be under the impression that just because some spits out a few "y'alls" and really digs into their "r's" Southerners will be willing to disregard their entire political history and toss a vote their way. Sectionalism and regional pride hasn't really been a significant issue for a long time.

Yes, Webb would help a bit in the South. But what little he does to help isn't going to counter everything that Trump has done to hurt.
I mean "Southerner" in a more broad sense.  I don't mean simply that he's from the same region and speaks with the same accent.  He can tap into the working class values that they used as a deciding factor in their votes, which is namely economic populism and pro-worker policies.


Sure he could. But Trump is already doing that with the economic populism and his "hard on trade" stance. Webb appeals to a group that Trump already appeals to. In fact, he may even push some away. Despite his past Republican affiliation, Webb's senate record was quite Liberal.
Too liberal for National Review or Freedom Works?  Absolutely.

However, Webb is on average what many Southern Democrats in the 70s, 80s, and 90s were.  He was a 21st century version of Dale Bumpers, Ernest Fritz Hollings, or Lloyd Bentsen.
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White Trash
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« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2016, 08:21:45 PM »

The above posters are right. The only thing Webb could add is keep Indiana and Missouri in the GOP fold. He might make in roads in Ohio and maybe even swing over Virginia, maybe. But as far as helping Trump win Michigan and Pennsylvania? That's gotta be a joke.

Webb could be something of a map-expander for the Democrats, he appeals to certain elements of the Republican base. But he is certainly not going to put Democratic states like Pennsylvania and Michigan in play for the Republicans.
He's a Southerner.  He could help Trump keep FL, NC, and VA.  And like you said, maybe help Trump deliver OH.  Then, all Trump would need to do is win a tiny swing state like NH or IA.


You seem to be under the impression that just because some spits out a few "y'alls" and really digs into their "r's" Southerners will be willing to disregard their entire political history and toss a vote their way. Sectionalism and regional pride hasn't really been a significant issue for a long time.

Yes, Webb would help a bit in the South. But what little he does to help isn't going to counter everything that Trump has done to hurt.
I mean "Southerner" in a more broad sense.  I don't mean simply that he's from the same region and speaks with the same accent.  He can tap into the working class values that they used as a deciding factor in their votes, which is namely economic populism and pro-worker policies.


Sure he could. But Trump is already doing that with the economic populism and his "hard on trade" stance. Webb appeals to a group that Trump already appeals to. In fact, he may even push some away. Despite his past Republican affiliation, Webb's senate record was quite Liberal.
Trump voters aren't your typical voters.  They're not voting for Trump the Republican because Rush Limbaugh or James Dobson or the Club for Growth told them to.  They're staunchly independent and vote for Trump probably despite the fact that he's running as a Republican, not because of it.

The ones who tend to vote Republican on a regular basis but hopped on the Trump Train would probably like Trump's controversial pick. 


I'm aware of that, and I'm not disputing that. But Webb has some stances that don't sit too well with the working-class South. Namely on abortion. The fact that Webb ever had a "D" next to his name will actually drive even more of the conservative vote away from the ticket. While I think those polls showing Utah and Idaho being in play are baloney, I could see it becoming a reality if Trump chooses an actual, living, breathing in the flesh Democrat as his running mate.
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White Trash
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« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2016, 08:23:35 PM »

The above posters are right. The only thing Webb could add is keep Indiana and Missouri in the GOP fold. He might make in roads in Ohio and maybe even swing over Virginia, maybe. But as far as helping Trump win Michigan and Pennsylvania? That's gotta be a joke.

Webb could be something of a map-expander for the Democrats, he appeals to certain elements of the Republican base. But he is certainly not going to put Democratic states like Pennsylvania and Michigan in play for the Republicans.
He's a Southerner.  He could help Trump keep FL, NC, and VA.  And like you said, maybe help Trump deliver OH.  Then, all Trump would need to do is win a tiny swing state like NH or IA.


You seem to be under the impression that just because some spits out a few "y'alls" and really digs into their "r's" Southerners will be willing to disregard their entire political history and toss a vote their way. Sectionalism and regional pride hasn't really been a significant issue for a long time.

Yes, Webb would help a bit in the South. But what little he does to help isn't going to counter everything that Trump has done to hurt.
I mean "Southerner" in a more broad sense.  I don't mean simply that he's from the same region and speaks with the same accent.  He can tap into the working class values that they used as a deciding factor in their votes, which is namely economic populism and pro-worker policies.


Sure he could. But Trump is already doing that with the economic populism and his "hard on trade" stance. Webb appeals to a group that Trump already appeals to. In fact, he may even push some away. Despite his past Republican affiliation, Webb's senate record was quite Liberal.
Too liberal for National Review or Freedom Works?  Absolutely.

However, Webb is on average what many Southern Democrats in the 70s, 80s, and 90s were.  He was a 21st century version of Dale Bumpers, Ernest Fritz Hollings, or Lloyd Bentsen.


Sure he was more conservative than your average Democrat, but that doesn't make him conservative enough to keep the hardcore socialcons in check. A good chunk of the Republican electorate would find no place in a Trump/Webb ticket, and they would subsequently abandon it.
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libertpaulian
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« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2016, 08:25:14 PM »

The above posters are right. The only thing Webb could add is keep Indiana and Missouri in the GOP fold. He might make in roads in Ohio and maybe even swing over Virginia, maybe. But as far as helping Trump win Michigan and Pennsylvania? That's gotta be a joke.

Webb could be something of a map-expander for the Democrats, he appeals to certain elements of the Republican base. But he is certainly not going to put Democratic states like Pennsylvania and Michigan in play for the Republicans.
He's a Southerner.  He could help Trump keep FL, NC, and VA.  And like you said, maybe help Trump deliver OH.  Then, all Trump would need to do is win a tiny swing state like NH or IA.


You seem to be under the impression that just because some spits out a few "y'alls" and really digs into their "r's" Southerners will be willing to disregard their entire political history and toss a vote their way. Sectionalism and regional pride hasn't really been a significant issue for a long time.

Yes, Webb would help a bit in the South. But what little he does to help isn't going to counter everything that Trump has done to hurt.
I mean "Southerner" in a more broad sense.  I don't mean simply that he's from the same region and speaks with the same accent.  He can tap into the working class values that they used as a deciding factor in their votes, which is namely economic populism and pro-worker policies.


Sure he could. But Trump is already doing that with the economic populism and his "hard on trade" stance. Webb appeals to a group that Trump already appeals to. In fact, he may even push some away. Despite his past Republican affiliation, Webb's senate record was quite Liberal.
Too liberal for National Review or Freedom Works?  Absolutely.

However, Webb is on average what many Southern Democrats in the 70s, 80s, and 90s were.  He was a 21st century version of Dale Bumpers, Ernest Fritz Hollings, or Lloyd Bentsen.


Sure he was more conservative than your average Democrat, but that doesn't make him conservative enough to keep the hardcore socialcons in check. A good chunk of the Republican electorate would find no place in a Trump/Webb ticket, and they would subsequently abandon it.
That is true.  Trump has to get about 85%-90% of the #NeverTrump crowd on the Trump Train just to have a prayer of winning the general.  Picking an actual Democrat wouldn't be so wise.  I was just listing some of the benefits.

Maybe he could use Jim Webb as a campaign surrogate or something.
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White Trash
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« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2016, 08:28:26 PM »

The above posters are right. The only thing Webb could add is keep Indiana and Missouri in the GOP fold. He might make in roads in Ohio and maybe even swing over Virginia, maybe. But as far as helping Trump win Michigan and Pennsylvania? That's gotta be a joke.

Webb could be something of a map-expander for the Democrats, he appeals to certain elements of the Republican base. But he is certainly not going to put Democratic states like Pennsylvania and Michigan in play for the Republicans.
He's a Southerner.  He could help Trump keep FL, NC, and VA.  And like you said, maybe help Trump deliver OH.  Then, all Trump would need to do is win a tiny swing state like NH or IA.


You seem to be under the impression that just because some spits out a few "y'alls" and really digs into their "r's" Southerners will be willing to disregard their entire political history and toss a vote their way. Sectionalism and regional pride hasn't really been a significant issue for a long time.

Yes, Webb would help a bit in the South. But what little he does to help isn't going to counter everything that Trump has done to hurt.
I mean "Southerner" in a more broad sense.  I don't mean simply that he's from the same region and speaks with the same accent.  He can tap into the working class values that they used as a deciding factor in their votes, which is namely economic populism and pro-worker policies.


Sure he could. But Trump is already doing that with the economic populism and his "hard on trade" stance. Webb appeals to a group that Trump already appeals to. In fact, he may even push some away. Despite his past Republican affiliation, Webb's senate record was quite Liberal.
Too liberal for National Review or Freedom Works?  Absolutely.

However, Webb is on average what many Southern Democrats in the 70s, 80s, and 90s were.  He was a 21st century version of Dale Bumpers, Ernest Fritz Hollings, or Lloyd Bentsen.


Sure he was more conservative than your average Democrat, but that doesn't make him conservative enough to keep the hardcore socialcons in check. A good chunk of the Republican electorate would find no place in a Trump/Webb ticket, and they would subsequently abandon it.
That is true.  Trump has to get about 85%-90% of the #NeverTrump crowd on the Trump Train just to have a prayer of winning the general.  Picking an actual Democrat wouldn't be so wise.  I was just listing some of the benefits.

Maybe he could use Jim Webb as a campaign surrogate or something.


Heck, even a simple endorsement from Webb might help Trump a little. You're right that Webb does have a good appeal, and I think that something minor like a TV spot would be the best way to utilize it.
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« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2016, 09:09:56 PM »

Everyone if Webb actually had a following amongst these supposed conservative working class Democrats he would've been able to poll more than the margin of error in any poll. He is irrelevant. Totally and completely. He's also probably the third most responsible person for the passage of Obamacare (after the late Arlen Specter and Al Franken) so yeah, not exactly the best choice to win over disaffected conservatives.
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libertpaulian
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« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2016, 09:28:39 PM »

Everyone if Webb actually had a following amongst these supposed conservative working class Democrats he would've been able to poll more than the margin of error in any poll. He is irrelevant. Totally and completely. He's also probably the third most responsible person for the passage of Obamacare (after the late Arlen Specter and Al Franken) so yeah, not exactly the best choice to win over disaffected conservatives.
He might be able to win over disaffected moderates who aren't too pleased with Hillary (you know, the wife of the guy that signed NAFTA) but want to keep their Obamacare plan. 
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« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2016, 09:32:18 PM »

Everyone if Webb actually had a following amongst these supposed conservative working class Democrats he would've been able to poll more than the margin of error in any poll. He is irrelevant. Totally and completely. He's also probably the third most responsible person for the passage of Obamacare (after the late Arlen Specter and Al Franken) so yeah, not exactly the best choice to win over disaffected conservatives.
He might be able to win over disaffected moderates who aren't too pleased with Hillary (you know, the wife of the guy that signed NAFTA) but want to keep their Obamacare plan. 

Well seeing as how: 1-Trump will still campaign on repealing Obamacare and 2-Webb supported free trade as a Senator, that wouldn't make much sense.
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libertpaulian
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« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2016, 09:42:03 PM »

Everyone if Webb actually had a following amongst these supposed conservative working class Democrats he would've been able to poll more than the margin of error in any poll. He is irrelevant. Totally and completely. He's also probably the third most responsible person for the passage of Obamacare (after the late Arlen Specter and Al Franken) so yeah, not exactly the best choice to win over disaffected conservatives.
He might be able to win over disaffected moderates who aren't too pleased with Hillary (you know, the wife of the guy that signed NAFTA) but want to keep their Obamacare plan. 

Well seeing as how: 1-Trump will still campaign on repealing Obamacare and 2-Webb supported free trade as a Senator, that wouldn't make much sense.
Unlike the Tea Party who just says "REPEAL OBAMACARE!", Trump says he wants to supplant Obamacare with a more effective plan.
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Frodo
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« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2016, 09:59:49 PM »

Everyone if Webb actually had a following amongst these supposed conservative working class Democrats he would've been able to poll more than the margin of error in any poll. He is irrelevant. Totally and completely. He's also probably the third most responsible person for the passage of Obamacare (after the late Arlen Specter and Al Franken) so yeah, not exactly the best choice to win over disaffected conservatives.

Way to contradict yourself in one paragraph. 
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Devils30
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« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2016, 10:16:12 PM »

Webb wouldnt win VA for Trump or even be close, he never really had a deep connection with voters the way Warner and Kaine do.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2016, 10:50:57 PM »

Webb wouldnt win VA for Trump or even be close, he never really had a deep connection with voters the way Warner and Kaine do.

Interesting fact about Webb: he only won the Democratic primary in 2006 by 6 points, against some random lobbyist dude I've never heard of named "Harris N. Miller"

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=51&year=2006&f=0&off=3&elect=1
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« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2016, 10:54:23 PM »

Webb wouldnt win VA for Trump or even be close, he never really had a deep connection with voters the way Warner and Kaine do.

Interesting fact about Webb: he only won the Democratic primary in 2006 by 6 points, against some random lobbyist dude I've never heard of named "Harris N. Miller"

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=51&year=2006&f=0&off=3&elect=1

Eh, party switchers sometimes run into trouble in primaries. Congressman Michael Forbes lost to a total nobody after he switched to be a Democrat.
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« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2016, 11:02:40 PM »

Everyone if Webb actually had a following amongst these supposed conservative working class Democrats he would've been able to poll more than the margin of error in any poll. He is irrelevant. Totally and completely. He's also probably the third most responsible person for the passage of Obamacare (after the late Arlen Specter and Al Franken) so yeah, not exactly the best choice to win over disaffected conservatives.

Way to contradict yourself in one paragraph. 

Where's the contradiction? He may have had a big role in passing Obamacare, but no one cares about him anymore
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publicunofficial
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« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2016, 02:34:14 AM »

Are we still pretending VP choices change the map? Or that large swathes of voters will know Jim Webb's name and political ideology besides "That guy who talked about killing Viet Cong on a debate stage"?
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IceSpear
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« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2016, 03:15:25 AM »

Are we still pretending VP choices change the map? Or that large swathes of voters will know Jim Webb's name and political ideology besides "That guy who talked about killing Viet Cong on a debate stage"?

They'll probably more likely remember him as "that guy that defeated that guy who used that racist slur" in Virginia. Nationally it would be more like "who?"
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« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2016, 04:04:15 AM »

Everyone if Webb actually had a following amongst these supposed conservative working class Democrats he would've been able to poll more than the margin of error in any poll. He is irrelevant. Totally and completely. He's also probably the third most responsible person for the passage of Obamacare (after the late Arlen Specter and Al Franken) so yeah, not exactly the best choice to win over disaffected conservatives.
He might be able to win over disaffected moderates who aren't too pleased with Hillary (you know, the wife of the guy that signed NAFTA) but want to keep their Obamacare plan. 

Wasn't NAFTA supposed to hurt Hillary in Ohio? Oh, wait. She won Ohio (twice).

If she can win Ohio based on her "support" of NAFTA, then it's not going to be a big deal elsewhere since Ohio is THE quintessential swing state.
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libertpaulian
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« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2016, 09:05:40 AM »

Everyone if Webb actually had a following amongst these supposed conservative working class Democrats he would've been able to poll more than the margin of error in any poll. He is irrelevant. Totally and completely. He's also probably the third most responsible person for the passage of Obamacare (after the late Arlen Specter and Al Franken) so yeah, not exactly the best choice to win over disaffected conservatives.
He might be able to win over disaffected moderates who aren't too pleased with Hillary (you know, the wife of the guy that signed NAFTA) but want to keep their Obamacare plan. 

Wasn't NAFTA supposed to hurt Hillary in Ohio? Oh, wait. She won Ohio (twice).

If she can win Ohio based on her "support" of NAFTA, then it's not going to be a big deal elsewhere since Ohio is THE quintessential swing state.
Ohioans may not like NAFTA, but they're not going to vote for a guy that's basically a Bolshevik version of Ron Paul.
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« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2016, 12:06:10 PM »

OK simple question: If Webb is such a game changer why wasn't he able to poll even above the margin of error?
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Santander
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« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2016, 12:24:22 PM »

OK simple question: If Webb is such a game changer why wasn't he able to poll even above the margin of error?
He didn't have the platform because he showed up at the wrong debate. He'd be the perfect foil for Trump - experience in elected office, service under Reagan and outstanding military record. They're both mainline Protestant, share populist ideology, have foreign-born wives and have cross-party appeal. At the very least, he'd make a fine surrogate.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2016, 03:22:01 PM »

OK simple question: If Webb is such a game changer why wasn't he able to poll even above the margin of error?
He didn't have the platform because he showed up at the wrong debate. He'd be the perfect foil for Trump - experience in elected office, service under Reagan and outstanding military record. They're both mainline Protestant, share populist ideology, have foreign-born wives and have cross-party appeal. At the very least, he'd make a fine surrogate.

Republicans would've liked this?

pro-choice Democrat with a liberal voting record who supported Obamacare and endorsed/campaigned for Obama twice?
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Frodo
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« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2016, 05:02:10 PM »

OK simple question: If Webb is such a game changer why wasn't he able to poll even above the margin of error?
He didn't have the platform because he showed up at the wrong debate. He'd be the perfect foil for Trump - experience in elected office, service under Reagan and outstanding military record. They're both mainline Protestant, share populist ideology, have foreign-born wives and have cross-party appeal. At the very least, he'd make a fine surrogate.

Republicans would've liked this?

pro-choice Democrat with a liberal voting record who supported Obamacare and endorsed/campaigned for Obama twice?

If they are willing to forgive and overlook Donald Trump's many lapses from conservative orthodoxy just so they can stick it to 'The Establishment', why not Jim Webb's?  
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IceSpear
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« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2016, 05:08:44 PM »

OK simple question: If Webb is such a game changer why wasn't he able to poll even above the margin of error?
He didn't have the platform because he showed up at the wrong debate. He'd be the perfect foil for Trump - experience in elected office, service under Reagan and outstanding military record. They're both mainline Protestant, share populist ideology, have foreign-born wives and have cross-party appeal. At the very least, he'd make a fine surrogate.

Republicans would've liked this?

pro-choice Democrat with a liberal voting record who supported Obamacare and endorsed/campaigned for Obama twice?

If they are willing to forgive and overlook Donald Trump's many lapses from conservative orthodoxy just so they can stick it to 'The Establishment', why not Jim Webb's?  

Some of them are. There's heavy resistance to Trump among the movement conservatives, evangelicals, the establishment, etc. for that very reason. Picking Webb as a VP would alienate them even further. And if Webb ran as a Republican to begin with, Trump would've already sucked up all that oxygen anyway.

Besides, let's not forget that Trump got his fame among Republicans for his birtherism. He might've been a liberal at certain points, but that pales in comparison to voting for Obamacare or outright endorsing the communist Muslim twice.
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« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2016, 05:10:15 PM »

Trump is not going to pick a pro-choice VP. Trump won't pick Brown or especially Webb. Cruz voters would stay home at record levels if Trump picked a pro-choice VP.
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Frodo
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« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2016, 05:22:51 PM »

OK simple question: If Webb is such a game changer why wasn't he able to poll even above the margin of error?
He didn't have the platform because he showed up at the wrong debate. He'd be the perfect foil for Trump - experience in elected office, service under Reagan and outstanding military record. They're both mainline Protestant, share populist ideology, have foreign-born wives and have cross-party appeal. At the very least, he'd make a fine surrogate.

Republicans would've liked this?

pro-choice Democrat with a liberal voting record who supported Obamacare and endorsed/campaigned for Obama twice?

If they are willing to forgive and overlook Donald Trump's many lapses from conservative orthodoxy just so they can stick it to 'The Establishment', why not Jim Webb's?  

Some of them are. There's heavy resistance to Trump among the movement conservatives, evangelicals, the establishment, etc. for that very reason. Picking Webb as a VP would alienate them even further. And if Webb ran as a Republican to begin with, Trump would've already sucked up all that oxygen anyway.

Besides, let's not forget that Trump got his fame among Republicans for his birtherism. He might've been a liberal at certain points, but that pales in comparison to voting for Obamacare or outright endorsing the communist Muslim twice.

What you say makes sense, but Trump has already stated that he doesn't give a damn whether they support him or not.  So that leads me to think that he is definitely open to picking a running-mate as unorthodox as himself. 
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