Both Cruz and Kasich have actual *records* that are of the extreme Right
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  Both Cruz and Kasich have actual *records* that are of the extreme Right
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Author Topic: Both Cruz and Kasich have actual *records* that are of the extreme Right  (Read 629 times)
All Along The Watchtower
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« on: April 30, 2016, 09:20:06 PM »
« edited: April 30, 2016, 09:22:51 PM by PR »

Say what you want about Donald Trump, but at the very least, he is a genuine wild card as a potential Republican President. He has never held elected office, so other than his campaign slogans and promises (which are admittedly absurd at best, horrifying at worst - but whoever accused Trump of being consistent or logically coherent in his political positions?), there is simply far too little to go on to predict with any degree of confidence what he will actually do as President.

Ted Cruz and John Kasich, on the other hand...well, read the articles linked and quoted from below.

First, a look at Cruz:

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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/10/opinion/campaign-stops/what-about-ted-cruz.html?_r=0

Next up, Kasich...

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http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/11/john-kasich-ohio-moderate-voting-record-republican-president-campaign


How is the candidate with right-wing extremist rhetoric scarier than the elected officials with actual right-wing extremist records? I'm genuinely curious as to the logic of many posters on this forum.
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jfern
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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2016, 09:23:52 PM »

Of course Trump is the most moderate of the three. Those who say they are scared of Trump being President haven't realized that one of his opponents is Ted Cruz. You'd have to be completely clueless to think Ted Cruz is any sort of moderate. As for Kasich, maybe he has the most moderate personality of the three, but that's not his ideology.
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#TheShadowyAbyss
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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2016, 10:03:34 PM »

But I was told that Kasich is a MODERATE HEROTM and the most moderate of the candidates!
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RFayette
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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2016, 10:06:54 PM »

In America, reporters seem to think "moderate" means that you say nice things about gay weddings and talk about how "bipartisan" you are.  The term means nothing in reality to them.
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Heisenberg
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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2016, 10:18:09 PM »

Maybe the word moderate refers to less extreme rhetoric these days.
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Bakersfield Uber Alles
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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2016, 11:30:44 PM »

Maybe the word moderate refers to less extreme rhetoric these days.

That's what I've been thinking over the last few months as well.
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SillyAmerican
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2016, 08:06:56 AM »

Labels like "moderate", "liberal", "conservative", etc. are all well and good, but what I'm interested in are the actual positions held by the candidate.

For instance, the Guardian article mentions that Kasich is "a climate change denier". These are the kinds of weak minded charges that really irritate me. I doubt that you can find anyone who denies that the climate is changing. What people argue about, and what the real issue centers on, is how much of these changes are being caused by we humans. If we look back over the planet's history, we find that warming and cooling has always taken place and that CO2 levels have always varied. And these changes occur, and will continue occur, whether we humans are here or not. The idea that mankind is to be looked on as the primary factor in these climate changes is ludicrous, and anyone willing to think on it realizes this because such changes have occurred in the past, before we were even around. Yet somehow any candidate who states this fact is a "climate change denier". Well, ok, but a candidate who questions the notion that humans are responsible for the climate changing? Despite what the acceptable party line might be, that candidate is showing himself/herself worthy of my support.
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2016, 10:32:53 AM »
« Edited: May 01, 2016, 10:35:37 AM by Meclazine »

The OP has titled the thread incorrectly.

It mentions "extreme right" but then goes on to talk about teachers playing lawn bowls in Ohio.

Please.

Did the teachers shave their heads and get tattoos?

Are the children in the classes forced into armed slavery to fight government forces?

Why do people exaggerate political layers in such extremes?

Kasich is an "Iced Vo-Vo dipping" moderate. And the hot tea he dips his biscuits has one spoon of sugar.

He is nowhere near a right wing extremist.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2016, 10:56:35 AM »

Kasich has signed every one of a series of anti-choice measures that has ever reached his desk.

Yeah, being pro-life doesn't make one an extremist, nor does acting like. Not even just because "it's the current year". I also remember these people called pro-life Democrats. I even think they're still a few left!

Across the state he has made an enemy of public sector unions

A Republican who didn't make an enemy of public sector unions would be a poor Republican indeed. This is just as much the case today as it was in 1916 or 1956.

enthusiastic support for oil and gas production via fracking – even though that has not brought as much prosperity to the state as some think.

It's interesting, how fracking in Ohio is either seen as accounting entirely for the state's economic performance under Kasich or, as we see here, as a net negative with little beneficial effects. Either way, Kasich gets to be the bad guy!

“He is a climate change denier..."

No, he's not, unlike his rivals, who actually are:

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Patently false, then, unless your definition of "climate change denial" entails supporting the reduction of emissions in a gradual and sustained manner rather than peddling a fantastical vision of reducing emissions by four-fifths in just three decades and shutting down the fossil fuel industry without correspondingly large drops in the standard of living, destroying the economies of large swathes of the country, massive increases in energy prices, making the US more dependent on noxious regimes in the Middle East... Yes! How dare Kasich not support innumerate proposals to meet our energy needs with solar and wind power alone? How dare he not oppose very dangerous nuclear power and large-scale hydropower like any left-wing progressive reasonable moderate?

We have a terrible infant mortality rate for African American babies – I could go on.

African American infant mortality-- that's just the sort of thing an NPR-listening, The Nation-reading identity politics-interested progressive would care about and a heartless corporatist extremist like Kasich would completely ignore, right? Wrong:

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Now, you'll have to wade through the left-wing smear that Kasich "blames black people for high infant mortality rates" and read what Kasich actually said. Keep in mind that he brought infant mortality up unprompted-- I know this for a fact, because I was there. If you read closely at the criticism, you'll find what this is really about: it's not infant mortality, it's about Planned Parenthood, which has a program targeting at-risk women during their pregnancies. “It is offensive to hear John Kasich tell black women what we should do with our bodies," says the assistant director of constituency communications for the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, the irony of linking infant mortality to abortion apparently lost on her.

But once again the facts are on Kasich's side-- $1.3 million of state funding to Planned Parenthood was cut (and redirected to other community organizations), but $15 million is going to such organizations to combat infant mortality in at-risk (read: poor read: black) areas through a program in Kasich's budget last year. Planned Parenthood's program worked with 2,800 women, while Kasich's works with 300,000. The year before that, Kasich launched a $4.2 million campaign to help drug-addicted pregnant mothers break their habit and help care for their children.

So obviously the callous poor-hating racist Kasich simply doesn't care about infant mortality. Once again, people are foolish enough to think otherwise just because $15 million>$1.3 million and 300,000>2,800, when they should know that the only important thing is that he redirected funds away from Planned Parenthood. And empowering alternatives to Planned Parenthood is pure evil, women's health be damned-- just ask any left-wing progressive reasonable moderate what they think about crisis pregnancy centers.

“The people in Ohio who know him are stunned that he has been allowed to get away with calling himself a moderate,” said Sandy Theis, executive director of the liberal thinktank Progress Ohio. [...] "Maybe the middle has moved so far to the right that there is no genuine moderate in the Republican race anymore."

See, I think this exposes the contradictions of such criticism of Kasich rather well. You, along with the "director of a liberal think tank", HuffPo, Rolling Stone, Samantha Bee, etc, etc don't want a moderate. You want a liberal progressive. If Kasich were to conform to all your conditions for "non-extremism", he would be a left-wing progressive. It is perfectly fine to want a left-wing progressive. But it is disingenuous to wring your hands about how a candidate isn't a "reasonable moderate" when you have no actual desire for one.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2016, 02:40:25 PM »

Labels like "moderate", "liberal", "conservative", etc. are all well and good, but what I'm interested in are the actual positions held by the candidate.

For instance, the Guardian article mentions that Kasich is "a climate change denier". These are the kinds of weak minded charges that really irritate me. I doubt that you can find anyone who denies that the climate is changing. What people argue about, and what the real issue centers on, is how much of these changes are being caused by we humans. If we look back over the planet's history, we find that warming and cooling has always taken place and that CO2 levels have always varied. And these changes occur, and will continue occur, whether we humans are here or not. The idea that mankind is to be looked on as the primary factor in these climate changes is ludicrous, and anyone willing to think on it realizes this because such changes have occurred in the past, before we were even around. Yet somehow any candidate who states this fact is a "climate change denier". Well, ok, but a candidate who questions the notion that humans are responsible for the climate changing? Despite what the acceptable party line might be, that candidate is showing himself/herself worthy of my support.

Well, you see, at the end of the day, it's not what the people of Kasich's state say. The Democratic insiders - those brave, loyal freedom fighters - know what's best for Ohioans and just how far right their pho-popular Governor is.

Did you forget to take your brain washing pill and read Salon 24/7 sometime within the last week?
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2016, 07:03:42 PM »

How is the candidate with right-wing extremist rhetoric scarier than the elected officials with actual right-wing extremist records? I'm genuinely curious as to the logic of many posters on this forum.

Easy.  Trump is not bound by any of the normal political conventions that would restrict his behavior.  To quote Ezra Klein on this:

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/10/10956978/donald-trump-terrifying

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