What do our resident members of the Party of Lincoln think of this quote?

[All Along The Watchtower]

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

- Abraham Lincoln

[Goldwater]

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. Do you think that a single Lincoln quote will change people's political views? Or maybe you are saying that people who disagree with this quote shouldn't be Republicans? I really don't see what you are getting at here.

[RINO Tom]

Sick topic, bro.  I prefer this one, though:

 “It is best for all to leave each man to acquire property as fast as he can. Some will get wealthy. I don’t believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich; it would do more harm than good. So while we do not propose any war on capital, we do wish to allow the humblest man an equal chance to get rich with everybody else.”

[OSR stands with Israel]

Sick topic, bro.  I prefer this one, though:

 “It is best for all to leave each man to acquire property as fast as he can. Some will get wealthy. I don’t believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich; it would do more harm than good. So while we do not propose any war on capital, we do wish to allow the humblest man an equal chance to get rich with everybody else.”

[Clark Kent]

Sick topic, bro.  I prefer this one, though:

 “It is best for all to leave each man to acquire property as fast as he can. Some will get wealthy. I don’t believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich; it would do more harm than good. So while we do not propose any war on capital, we do wish to allow the humblest man an equal chance to get rich with everybody else.”

[SWE]

ITT: using a quote where Lincoln defends striking workers as proof that he was a conservative.

[Intell]

Sick topic, bro.  I prefer this one, though:

 “It is best for all to leave each man to acquire property as fast as he can. Some will get wealthy. I don’t believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich; it would do more harm than good. So while we do not propose any war on capital, we do wish to allow the humblest man an equal chance to get rich with everybody else.”

So supporting labor?

[RINO Tom]

ITT: using a quote where Lincoln defends striking workers as proof that he was a conservative.

I wouldn't be such an idiot to apply our modern definitions of liberal and conservative to someone who died in the 1860s, but it's pretty undeniable that Lincoln was a huge fan of the free market and believed deeply in the ability of any American to achieve wealth through hard work and determination alone, and that those who achieve that wealth should not be demonized or penalized for doing so - a belief that certainly does not put him at odds with modern Republicans on the issue.

Alas, we all know that Lincoln was a communist for writing a letter to Karl Marx.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

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http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=29502

Lincoln is extolling here the free soil ideology.  "Free soil, free labor, free men" as the title of Foner's book puts it.

We have surely come a long way from the economy Lincoln describes, where a large number of people are independent of Capital, if indeed ever we had it. I'm not exactly sure what Lincoln means here by "Capital."   If a man takes out a loan in order to operate his farm, is that dependence on Capital?

[RFayette]

Lincoln was a great President, but I don't agree with him on everything by any means, nor do I believe he was a conservative by any means (he leaned left for the time, if we were basing it on the definitions at the time).  Heck, I probably would've voted against the Party of Lincoln for a good chunk of the late 1800's/early 1900's, especially for Cleveland and against Teddy.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It goes well with this quote. "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for  the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." - Eisenhower

I'd settle for either party paying any attention to those quotes.

[IceSpear]

They're the Party of Davis now.

Both Jefferson and Kim.

[IceSpear]

But seriously, does anyone genuinely think, while being intellectually honest, that Abraham Lincoln would be proud of the present day GOP? The party of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Dick Cheney, Steve Stockman, Joe Wilson, Scott DesJarlais, Joe Barton, Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Ken Buck, Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Pat Buchanan, Tom Tancredo, Chris McDaniel, Louie Gohmert, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Steve King, Newt Gingrich, Paul LePage, Sam Brownback, Rick Scott, Mary Fallin, Orly Taitz, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Steve Scalise, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, David Vitter, Jim Inhofe...and the list goes on.

[RINO Tom]

But seriously, does anyone genuinely think, while being intellectually honest, that Abraham Lincoln would be proud of the present day GOP? The party of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Dick Cheney, Steve Stockman, Joe Wilson, Scott DesJarlais, Joe Barton, Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Ken Buck, Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Pat Buchanan, Tom Tancredo, Chris McDaniel, Louie Gohmert, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Steve King, Newt Gingrich, Paul LePage, Sam Brownback, Rick Scott, Mary Fallin, Orly Taitz, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Steve Scalise, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, David Vitter, Jim Inhofe...and the list goes on.

Nope.  However, there are tons of people who are still Republicans who are publicly critical of where the party currently stands, and there's not a lot of reason to believe Lincoln would be proud of the current Democratic Party (or any of its forms over the years), either.

Trying to apply modern politics to the 1800s is truly bizarre, though, especially using modern terms.  "Lincoln leaned left for his time."  What the  does that even mean?  LOL.  Lincoln is going to be whatever people want him to be, and that's fine.  All we can really say is Abe was a member of a party that was largely pro-business, skeptical of immigration, for restricting and eventually dismantling slavery and it usually attracted the Northern business community, Blacks who could vote (eventually) and religiously Puritan Northerners.  If people want to attach liberal or conservative to those things, fine ... kind of pointless.

To people like RFayette, being conservative has more to do with how much you talk about Jesus, how uncomfortable you are around minorities and how backwards your thinking is, LOL.  I do not share that line of thinking, and calling Lincoln a liberal with a straight face is just as dumb as calling him a conservative.

[Mr. Reactionary]

But seriously, does anyone genuinely think, while being intellectually honest, that Abraham Lincoln would be proud of the present day GOP? The party of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Dick Cheney, Steve Stockman, Joe Wilson, Scott DesJarlais, Joe Barton, Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Ken Buck, Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Pat Buchanan, Tom Tancredo, Chris McDaniel, Louie Gohmert, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Steve King, Newt Gingrich, Paul LePage, Sam Brownback, Rick Scott, Mary Fallin, Orly Taitz, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Steve Scalise, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, David Vitter, Jim Inhofe...and the list goes on.

Probably, since Lincoln was kind of racist and that list is pretty much all white people.

[All Along The Watchtower]

But seriously, does anyone genuinely think, while being intellectually honest, that Abraham Lincoln would be proud of the present day GOP? The party of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Dick Cheney, Steve Stockman, Joe Wilson, Scott DesJarlais, Joe Barton, Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Ken Buck, Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Pat Buchanan, Tom Tancredo, Chris McDaniel, Louie Gohmert, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Steve King, Newt Gingrich, Paul LePage, Sam Brownback, Rick Scott, Mary Fallin, Orly Taitz, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Steve Scalise, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, David Vitter, Jim Inhofe...and the list goes on.

Nope.  However, there are tons of people who are still Republicans who are publicly critical of where the party currently stands, and there's not a lot of reason to believe Lincoln would be proud of the current Democratic Party (or any of its forms over the years), either.

Trying to apply modern politics to the 1800s is truly bizarre, though, especially using modern terms.  "Lincoln leaned left for his time."  What the  does that even mean?  LOL.  Lincoln is going to be whatever people want him to be, and that's fine.  All we can really say is Abe was a member of a party that was largely pro-business, skeptical of immigration, for restricting and eventually dismantling slavery and it usually attracted the Northern business community, Blacks who could vote (eventually) and religiously Puritan Northerners.  If people want to attach liberal or conservative to those things, fine ... kind of pointless.

To people like RFayette, being conservative has more to do with how much you talk about Jesus, how uncomfortable you are around minorities and how backwards your thinking is, LOL.  I do not share that line of thinking, and calling Lincoln a liberal with a straight face is just as dumb as calling him a conservative.

Dude, Lincoln set out to abolish a quasi-feudalistic agrarian slave society where racial and economic inequality was literally caste-like. If Lincoln wasn't Left for his time, than what on Earth were the Democrats?

[RINO Tom]

But seriously, does anyone genuinely think, while being intellectually honest, that Abraham Lincoln would be proud of the present day GOP? The party of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Dick Cheney, Steve Stockman, Joe Wilson, Scott DesJarlais, Joe Barton, Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Ken Buck, Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Pat Buchanan, Tom Tancredo, Chris McDaniel, Louie Gohmert, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Steve King, Newt Gingrich, Paul LePage, Sam Brownback, Rick Scott, Mary Fallin, Orly Taitz, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Steve Scalise, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, David Vitter, Jim Inhofe...and the list goes on.

Nope.  However, there are tons of people who are still Republicans who are publicly critical of where the party currently stands, and there's not a lot of reason to believe Lincoln would be proud of the current Democratic Party (or any of its forms over the years), either.

Trying to apply modern politics to the 1800s is truly bizarre, though, especially using modern terms.  "Lincoln leaned left for his time."  What the  does that even mean?  LOL.  Lincoln is going to be whatever people want him to be, and that's fine.  All we can really say is Abe was a member of a party that was largely pro-business, skeptical of immigration, for restricting and eventually dismantling slavery and it usually attracted the Northern business community, Blacks who could vote (eventually) and religiously Puritan Northerners.  If people want to attach liberal or conservative to those things, fine ... kind of pointless.

To people like RFayette, being conservative has more to do with how much you talk about Jesus, how uncomfortable you are around minorities and how backwards your thinking is, LOL.  I do not share that line of thinking, and calling Lincoln a liberal with a straight face is just as dumb as calling him a conservative.

Dude, Lincoln set out to abolish a quasi-feudalistic agrarian slave society where racial and economic inequality was literally caste-like. If Lincoln wasn't Left for his time, than what on Earth were the Democrats?

Lincoln was a corporate lawyer who saw slavery as a direct assault on a free market that he believed allowed anyone to rise to wealth through hard work alone.  Hardly the SJW you all fetishize him as.

[Mr. Smith]

But seriously, does anyone genuinely think, while being intellectually honest, that Abraham Lincoln would be proud of the present day GOP? The party of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Dick Cheney, Steve Stockman, Joe Wilson, Scott DesJarlais, Joe Barton, Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Ken Buck, Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Pat Buchanan, Tom Tancredo, Chris McDaniel, Louie Gohmert, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Steve King, Newt Gingrich, Paul LePage, Sam Brownback, Rick Scott, Mary Fallin, Orly Taitz, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Steve Scalise, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, David Vitter, Jim Inhofe...and the list goes on.

Nope.  However, there are tons of people who are still Republicans who are publicly critical of where the party currently stands, and there's not a lot of reason to believe Lincoln would be proud of the current Democratic Party (or any of its forms over the years), either.

Trying to apply modern politics to the 1800s is truly bizarre, though, especially using modern terms.  "Lincoln leaned left for his time."  What the  does that even mean?  LOL.  Lincoln is going to be whatever people want him to be, and that's fine.  All we can really say is Abe was a member of a party that was largely pro-business, skeptical of immigration, for restricting and eventually dismantling slavery and it usually attracted the Northern business community, Blacks who could vote (eventually) and religiously Puritan Northerners.  If people want to attach liberal or conservative to those things, fine ... kind of pointless.

To people like RFayette, being conservative has more to do with how much you talk about Jesus, how uncomfortable you are around minorities and how backwards your thinking is, LOL.  I do not share that line of thinking, and calling Lincoln a liberal with a straight face is just as dumb as calling him a conservative.

Dude, Lincoln set out to abolish a quasi-feudalistic agrarian slave society where racial and economic inequality was literally caste-like. If Lincoln wasn't Left for his time, than what on Earth were the Democrats?

Lincoln was a corporate lawyer who saw slavery as a direct assault on a free market that he believed allowed anyone to rise to wealth through hard work alone.  Hardly the SJW you all fetishize him as.

Exactly, he was stooge who just happened to be utterly correct on one thing and managed to be very decisive when things hit the natural conclusion.

No fan of Henry Clay should in good conscience be considered all that great a person, even if they were literal FF's.

[RINO Tom]

Lincoln was a corporate lawyer who saw slavery as a direct assault on a free market that he believed allowed anyone to rise to wealth through hard work alone.  Hardly the SJW you all fetishize him as.

Eh, he did represent corporations, but there was hardly a developed system of corporate lawyers that we see today. He also represented murderers and criminals, like any lawyer. That's kind of what they do, it doesn't mean they love everyone they represent.

And he was a social justice warrior in the sense that he wanted to fight for underprivileged people. Modern SJWs are largely teenagers with no life experience, so it would actually be a slur to call him that.

My point is anyone standing up and calling anyone pre-New Deal a clear cut "liberal" or "conservative" and intending it to have any inherent relation to how we discuss those ideologies today is making some dubious claims, IMO.

[Mopsus]

Horace Greeley employed Karl Marx as his newspaper's European correspondent.

NEVER FORGET

[Zioneer]

Lincoln was a corporate lawyer who saw slavery as a direct assault on a free market that he believed allowed anyone to rise to wealth through hard work alone.  Hardly the SJW you all fetishize him as.

Eh, he did represent corporations, but there was hardly a developed system of corporate lawyers that we see today. He also represented murderers and criminals, like any lawyer. That's kind of what they do, it doesn't mean they love everyone they represent.

And he was a social justice warrior in the sense that he wanted to fight for underprivileged people. Modern SJWs are largely teenagers with no life experience, so it would actually be a slur to call him that.

Unrelated, but he was also one of the divorce lawyers for a couple of my ancestors.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

But seriously, does anyone genuinely think, while being intellectually honest, that Abraham Lincoln would be proud of the present day GOP? The party of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Dick Cheney, Steve Stockman, Joe Wilson, Scott DesJarlais, Joe Barton, Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Ken Buck, Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Pat Buchanan, Tom Tancredo, Chris McDaniel, Louie Gohmert, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Steve King, Newt Gingrich, Paul LePage, Sam Brownback, Rick Scott, Mary Fallin, Orly Taitz, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Steve Scalise, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, David Vitter, Jim Inhofe...and the list goes on.

Nope.  However, there are tons of people who are still Republicans who are publicly critical of where the party currently stands, and there's not a lot of reason to believe Lincoln would be proud of the current Democratic Party (or any of its forms over the years), either.

Trying to apply modern politics to the 1800s is truly bizarre, though, especially using modern terms.  "Lincoln leaned left for his time."  What the  does that even mean?  LOL.  Lincoln is going to be whatever people want him to be, and that's fine.  All we can really say is Abe was a member of a party that was largely pro-business, skeptical of immigration, for restricting and eventually dismantling slavery and it usually attracted the Northern business community, Blacks who could vote (eventually) and religiously Puritan Northerners.  If people want to attach liberal or conservative to those things, fine ... kind of pointless.

To people like RFayette, being conservative has more to do with how much you talk about Jesus, how uncomfortable you are around minorities and how backwards your thinking is, LOL.  I do not share that line of thinking, and calling Lincoln a liberal with a straight face is just as dumb as calling him a conservative.

Dude, Lincoln set out to abolish a quasi-feudalistic agrarian slave society where racial and economic inequality was literally caste-like. If Lincoln wasn't Left for his time, than what on Earth were the Democrats?

I'd love to see an attempt to describe the ideology of the antebellum Democratic party in modern terms.  I expect the result to be hysterical.

[RINO Tom]

But seriously, does anyone genuinely think, while being intellectually honest, that Abraham Lincoln would be proud of the present day GOP? The party of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Dick Cheney, Steve Stockman, Joe Wilson, Scott DesJarlais, Joe Barton, Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Ken Buck, Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Pat Buchanan, Tom Tancredo, Chris McDaniel, Louie Gohmert, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Steve King, Newt Gingrich, Paul LePage, Sam Brownback, Rick Scott, Mary Fallin, Orly Taitz, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Steve Scalise, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, David Vitter, Jim Inhofe...and the list goes on.

Nope.  However, there are tons of people who are still Republicans who are publicly critical of where the party currently stands, and there's not a lot of reason to believe Lincoln would be proud of the current Democratic Party (or any of its forms over the years), either.

Trying to apply modern politics to the 1800s is truly bizarre, though, especially using modern terms.  "Lincoln leaned left for his time."  What the  does that even mean?  LOL.  Lincoln is going to be whatever people want him to be, and that's fine.  All we can really say is Abe was a member of a party that was largely pro-business, skeptical of immigration, for restricting and eventually dismantling slavery and it usually attracted the Northern business community, Blacks who could vote (eventually) and religiously Puritan Northerners.  If people want to attach liberal or conservative to those things, fine ... kind of pointless.

To people like RFayette, being conservative has more to do with how much you talk about Jesus, how uncomfortable you are around minorities and how backwards your thinking is, LOL.  I do not share that line of thinking, and calling Lincoln a liberal with a straight face is just as dumb as calling him a conservative.

Dude, Lincoln set out to abolish a quasi-feudalistic agrarian slave society where racial and economic inequality was literally caste-like. If Lincoln wasn't Left for his time, than what on Earth were the Democrats?

I'd love to see an attempt to describe the ideology of the antebellum Democratic party in modern terms.  I expect the result to be hysterical.

I'll save you the suspense: "conservative," because they were bad and so is modern GOP, case closed, go Obama.

[White Trash]

This thread got me really curious about the actual platforms and voting records of the early Republicans. In looking at the platform of 1856 and 1860 we see support for the use of federal funds for the establishment of a pacific railroad as well as the improvement of rivers and harbors. The 1860 platform specifically states:

"15. That appropriations by Congress for river and harbor improvements of a national character, required for the accommodation and security of an existing commerce, are authorized by the Constitution, and justified by the obligation of Government to protect the lives and property of its citizens.

16. That a railroad to the Pacific Ocean is imperatively demanded by the interests of the whole country; that the federal government ought to render immediate and efficient aid in its construction; and that, as preliminary thereto, a daily overland mail should be promptly established."

Now this sounds remarkably similar to the demands for "internal improvements" of the Whigs. The desire to use federal funding, with congressional approval, to support local and municipal infrastructure. One could argue that this is a very "liberal" policy as it would require greater federal expenditure. Using public funds to build up public infrastructure isn't the most laissez-faire or "free market" strategy.

Beyond this, the Republicans in the Congress overwhelmingly supported the Revenue Acts of 1861 and 1862, which established a crude form of income tax. The Republicans again supported raising these taxes in 1864. Lincoln himself gave no indication that he supported the eventual lowering of the  taxes, and they weren't lowered until 1872, after the Democrats made serious gains in 1870.

Given all this, I think its hard to put the Fremont-Lincoln-Grant Republican party on the right side of the economic spectrum.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

But seriously, does anyone genuinely think, while being intellectually honest, that Abraham Lincoln would be proud of the present day GOP? The party of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Dick Cheney, Steve Stockman, Joe Wilson, Scott DesJarlais, Joe Barton, Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Ken Buck, Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Pat Buchanan, Tom Tancredo, Chris McDaniel, Louie Gohmert, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Steve King, Newt Gingrich, Paul LePage, Sam Brownback, Rick Scott, Mary Fallin, Orly Taitz, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Steve Scalise, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, David Vitter, Jim Inhofe...and the list goes on.

Nope.  However, there are tons of people who are still Republicans who are publicly critical of where the party currently stands, and there's not a lot of reason to believe Lincoln would be proud of the current Democratic Party (or any of its forms over the years), either.

Trying to apply modern politics to the 1800s is truly bizarre, though, especially using modern terms.  "Lincoln leaned left for his time."  What the  does that even mean?  LOL.  Lincoln is going to be whatever people want him to be, and that's fine.  All we can really say is Abe was a member of a party that was largely pro-business, skeptical of immigration, for restricting and eventually dismantling slavery and it usually attracted the Northern business community, Blacks who could vote (eventually) and religiously Puritan Northerners.  If people want to attach liberal or conservative to those things, fine ... kind of pointless.

To people like RFayette, being conservative has more to do with how much you talk about Jesus, how uncomfortable you are around minorities and how backwards your thinking is, LOL.  I do not share that line of thinking, and calling Lincoln a liberal with a straight face is just as dumb as calling him a conservative.

Dude, Lincoln set out to abolish a quasi-feudalistic agrarian slave society where racial and economic inequality was literally caste-like. If Lincoln wasn't Left for his time, than what on Earth were the Democrats?

I'd love to see an attempt to describe the ideology of the antebellum Democratic party in modern terms.  I expect the result to be hysterical.

The most accurate if probably classical liberal, as they tended towards free trade and minimal government intervention in the economy.

There was an element of that, but the issue of trade was more regional than partisan. A Pennsylvania Democrat was much more likely to be pro-tariff than was a North Carolina Whig.   And as slavery became increasingly defined in the Southern imagination as a noble institution and not just a necessary evil, there was little compunction among Democrats in that region from using the national government to preserve the institution.