Trump and Putin
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Author Topic: Trump and Putin  (Read 927 times)
egalitt
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« on: May 14, 2016, 02:53:20 PM »

I was surprised to find out that many people here think Trump to be  the Kremlin's favorite and to be  "soft"  on Putin.
In his foreign-policy speech at the end of April Trump stated:
"I believe an easing of tensions, and improved relations with Russia from a position of strength only is possible, absolutely possible.... If we can’t make a deal under my administration,... then we will quickly walk from the table. " http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/why-is-donald-trump-a-patsy-for-vladimir-putin.html

Where is the softness? We have heard about the policy from a position of strength since the beginning of the cold war. Later Trump promised to shoot down Russian jets approaching U.S. military assets http://europe.newsweek.com/trump-says-us-should-shoot-russian-planes-if-putin-calls-fail-454902?rm=eu

Yes,  Trump expressed his wish to improve relations with Putin, and Putin in response characterized him (in December) as a gifted and colorful person,  but those were mere words. In reality the opposite will be true. 

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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2016, 12:40:54 AM »

I was surprised to find out that many people here think Trump to be  the Kremlin's favorite and to be  "soft"  on Putin.
In his foreign-policy speech at the end of April Trump stated:
"I believe an easing of tensions, and improved relations with Russia from a position of strength only is possible, absolutely possible.... If we can’t make a deal under my administration,... then we will quickly walk from the table. " http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/why-is-donald-trump-a-patsy-for-vladimir-putin.html

Where is the softness?

The "softness", if you want to call it that, is explained later in that very same column:

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egalitt
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2016, 11:38:25 AM »
« Edited: May 15, 2016, 11:40:01 AM by egalitt »

You are referring to the interpretation given by a repoter. The interpretation is purely arbitrary and expresses his own personal opinion. But it is Trump's words that should be counted. And his words show that his attitude towards Russia is the same as that one of the previous American Presidents beginning with H. Truman . The key words here are "position of strength" and "shoot down Russian planes" that are completely ignored by the reporter, the author of the article.  
I always prefer to follow the Cinese proverb:
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
But you may be the author of the article, then I disagree with you.
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Crumpets
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2016, 05:43:25 PM »

Just cuz

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Fubart Solman
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2016, 05:57:01 PM »


That's what I was expecting the first post to be.
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egalitt
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2016, 07:14:37 PM »

Confounded expectations. Cruz is a beaten trump.
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Fargobison
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2016, 07:38:04 PM »

Donald and Vlad are besties....

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egalitt
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2016, 08:35:06 PM »

"Vlad"  is a diminutive for "Vladislav". The most widely used diminutive for "Vladimir" (Putin's first name) is  "Vova" or "Vovan" in youth  slang. Donnie and Vovan will never make friends: it impossible for Russian and US Presidents. 
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2016, 07:56:18 AM »

You are referring to the interpretation given by a repoter. The interpretation is purely arbitrary and expresses his own personal opinion. But it is Trump's words that should be counted. And his words show that his attitude towards Russia is the same as that one of the previous American Presidents beginning with H. Truman . The key words here are "position of strength" and "shoot down Russian planes" that are completely ignored by the reporter, the author of the article.  

The Russian planes flying over US military assets thing is a minor issue.  I mean, if one were actually shot down, it wouldn’t be minor, but the act of Russia doing it is minor.  Putin could order Russia to stop that tomorrow, and it wouldn’t be a big deal for him.  The bigger issues that Obama has with Russian foreign policy have to do with Ukraine and Syria.  Not just Obama, but the hawkish Republicans as well.  McCain also wants to arm the Ukrainian government, and arm rebels who are fighting the Russian-backed Syrian government.

Trump doesn’t seem to have any such problem with Russia’s actions.  Trump of course also talks about the US pulling back its contribution to NATO, which Putin would presumably be keen to see.  Here is from his sit down with the WaPo editorial board:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/21/donald-trump-reveals-foreign-policy-team-in-meeting-with-the-washington-post/

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Wisconsin+17
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2016, 08:08:56 AM »

Trump's going to go with unilaterally dismantling NATO?
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egalitt
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« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2016, 08:46:47 AM »

I'm aware of Trump's statements about Ukraine and NATO, they were well advertised in Russian media. But I'm also aware of his latest assertion :
I'm not the president, everything is a suggestion. No matter what you say, it is a suggestion

I wrote earlier on this forum that Trump will keep none of his promises. As soon as he is elected President he will discard all his vows. Immigration will increase with no wall built, support for NATO and Ukraine will become much more substantial, hostile attitude to Russia will retain.
Perhaps voters in the USA are used to trusting promises  made by candidates during election campaign. I believe that the real picture is sure to be the opposite one.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2016, 08:55:35 AM »

I'm aware of Trump's statements about Ukraine and NATO, they were well advertised in Russian media. But I'm also aware of his latest assertion :
I'm not the president, everything is a suggestion. No matter what you say, it is a suggestion

I wrote earlier on this forum that Trump will keep none of his promises. As soon as he is elected President he will discard all his vows. Immigration will increase with no wall built, support for NATO and Ukraine will become much more substantial, hostile attitude to Russia will retain.
Perhaps voters in the USA are used to trusting promises  made by candidates during election campaign. I believe that the real picture is sure to be the opposite one.

You started out this thread by using a quote from Trump to suggest that he may not be so Russia-friendly after all.  Now you're suggesting we shouldn't bother reading into what he says, because they're all "suggestions" anyway?

Look, I have no idea if Trump would follow through on any of the things he's saying now, if he were to win office.  I'm just pointing out that the stuff he's saying about foreign policy is by and large more Putin-friendly than the standard US bipartisan foreign policy line.
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egalitt
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« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2016, 09:24:51 AM »

And I am drawing your attention to the fact that friendliness of Trump's position towards Russia is exaggerated by American media. "A position of strength" phrase represents the bottom line in positions of all American Presidents beginning with Truman. Additionally Trump vowed to shoot down Russian jets. Where is the friendliness?
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2016, 09:28:11 AM »

And I am drawing your attention to the fact that friendliness of Trump's position towards Russia is exaggerated by American media. "A position of strength" phrase represents the bottom line in positions of all American Presidents beginning with Truman. Additionally Trump vowed to shoot down Russian jets. Where is the friendliness?

I just explained where the friendliness was.  The friendliness is in the fact that, unlike Obama (and most leading congressional Republicans, for that matter), Trump has no apparent problem with Russia's actions in Ukraine or Syria, and he also talks about diminishing the US's contribution to NATO.

Maybe we shouldn't believe him when he says those things.  But I don't understand why we should disbelieve him in those cases, but believe him in the other cases you're talking about.
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egalitt
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« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2016, 10:08:59 AM »
« Edited: May 17, 2016, 07:15:44 AM by egalitt »

[quote author=egalitt link=topic=236758.msg5070785#msg5070785 date=1463408691
 
 But I don't understand why we should disbelieve him in those cases, but believe him in the other cases you're talking about.



And haven't you asked yourself  a question why Bush and Obama have been on bad terms with Putin?
The answer is simple: they had to hold back Russia. And Trump will have to do the same because it is in economic and political interests of the USA.
At the end of April Putin said:
My impression is that the West loves Russia when it is weak and needs humanitarian relief http://ria.ru/world/20150420/1059696563.html

Quite right. If Russia were as weak as 20 years ago the American President  could afford friendly relationship with it.  But now Russia is not  weak. Moreover it presents a serious threat to American political and ideological hegemony. And Trump will be compelled to follow the same line as Obama. He will not be allowed any friendly actions towards Russia.  
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egalitt
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« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2016, 03:42:28 AM »

The other day Trump gave a lengthy interview to Reuters stating that:
..  the fact that Putin's said good things about me doesn't mean that, you know, it's going to help him in a negotiation. It won't help him at all. And I'll know pretty soon in whether or not I’ll have a good relationship with Russia. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-excerpts-idUSKCN0Y82OJ
He also added that he disliked Russian position on Ukraine.
The nearer is the general election the more hawkish Trump is. Finally he will turn out to be more hostile than Obama. No wonder taking into account that he is endorsed by such people as MacCain who is well known as Putin's antagonist.
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