Dean says something good

[Beet]

I notice that by talking about helping the poor vs gay marriage, he completely skipped the abortion issue.

Is abortion the only issue that matters? Does poverty not matter?

Why does the Republican party get a free pass when it comes to Biblical issues like poverty and helping thy neighbor? Why are they able to pick and choose certain issues from the church and ignore many other issues and no one calls them out for it?

Note, Dean could just as easily have said

"If you match our moral values against their moral values, we win. The Bible talks about helping the poor 3,000 times. I have yet to find abortion mentioned anywhere in the Bible,"

Yeah, he could have said that, but it wouldn't have been a good idea.

Damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't, huh?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Being compassionate with other people's money is theft. Securing people's rights, on the other hand, is just cause for taxation.

That view has absolutely nothing, nothing whatsoever to do with the Bible. That is your view, not the Bible's view... if anything it runs against the view on taxation that most churches have always taken.

[A18]

A government is only comprised of people. If people, as a general rule, should not steal, neither should governments. A majority vote does not give anyone a divine right to violate the ten commandments, and while the Bible does condone taxation, that is always with the implication that it is just taxation. Governments are seen as an instrument for establishing justice.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If people, as a general rule, should not steal, neither should governments.

Yes, but your definition of "steal" is a little strange

[Ebowed]

I notice that by talking about helping the poor vs gay marriage, he completely skipped the abortion issue.

Is abortion the only issue that matters? Does poverty not matter?

Why does the Republican party get a free pass when it comes to Biblical issues like poverty and helping thy neighbor? Why are they able to pick and choose certain issues from the church and ignore many other issues and no one calls them out for it?

Note, Dean could just as easily have said

"If you match our moral values against their moral values, we win. The Bible talks about helping the poor 3,000 times. I have yet to find abortion mentioned anywhere in the Bible,"

Yeah, he could have said that, but it wouldn't have been a good idea.

Damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't, huh?

Not quite.  When I said it wouldn't have been a good idea to mention abortion, I meant in that exact context-- saying that the definition of life isn't mentioned anywhere in the Bible would have effectively killed any chance of credibility with swing Christian  voters.

However, he could have mentioned abortion in the following context: "No party has a monopoly on moral values, we support helping the poor and letting women make decisions about their bodies, blah blah blah."  I would have disagreed with that obviously, but it wouldn't have been an outright false statement.  Anyway, I was just lamenting on the fact that whenever people mention 'moral values,' it seems to be about this bullsh**t gay marriage issue that I, for one, couldn't care less about, instead of important stuff like abortion, the death penalty, or war.

[WMS]

Anyway, I was just lamenting on the fact that whenever people mention 'moral values,' it seems to be about this bullsh**t gay marriage issue that I, for one, couldn't care less about, instead of important stuff like abortion, the death penalty, or war.

Agreed - I am so sick of the 'gay marriage issue'. But as soon as the Massachusetts Supreme Court decided to turn this into a NATIONAL ISSUE OF IMMENSE PROPORTIONS[/sarcasm] I just knew I was going to be hearing about this crap for years to come, while far more urgent issues get ignored...probably as intended by both sides.

[Beet]

I notice that by talking about helping the poor vs gay marriage, he completely skipped the abortion issue.

Is abortion the only issue that matters? Does poverty not matter?

Why does the Republican party get a free pass when it comes to Biblical issues like poverty and helping thy neighbor? Why are they able to pick and choose certain issues from the church and ignore many other issues and no one calls them out for it?

Note, Dean could just as easily have said

"If you match our moral values against their moral values, we win. The Bible talks about helping the poor 3,000 times. I have yet to find abortion mentioned anywhere in the Bible,"

Yeah, he could have said that, but it wouldn't have been a good idea.

Damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't, huh?

Not quite.  When I said it wouldn't have been a good idea to mention abortion, I meant in that exact context-- saying that the definition of life isn't mentioned anywhere in the Bible would have effectively killed any chance of credibility with swing Christian  voters.

However, he could have mentioned abortion in the following context: "No party has a monopoly on moral values, we support helping the poor and letting women make decisions about their bodies, blah blah blah."  I would have disagreed with that obviously, but it wouldn't have been an outright false statement.  Anyway, I was just lamenting on the fact that whenever people mention 'moral values,' it seems to be about this bullsh**t gay marriage issue that I, for one, couldn't care less about, instead of important stuff like abortion, the death penalty, or war.

I feel similarly, but disagree with your analysis. The pro-choice argument you suggested is the same one that has been used for the past 30 years: it is not a winning argument. For one thing, for a person of genuine faith, like yourself or I, one cannot accept a purely secular argument. For another, it is philosophically baseless.

The extremely difficult but necessary step is to directly challenge the interpretation of the Bible for political purposes. The fact is, the Bible does not specifically define when life begins, and gives conflicting statements on abortion. The same may be said of interpretations by early Christians from the first century through the middle ages, as well as of the Catholic Church. An extended scriptural discussion may be found here under the "References from the Hebrew Scriptures" and "References from the Christian Scriptures" links.