Death Penalty is sought for Charleston killer

[Alcon]

Why is this "good?" The victims families have sought not to execute him and many of you identify as pro-life.

I'd much prefer to see this terrorist spend the remainder of his days being sodomized in his cell until he hangs himself with his sheets or dies in a prison hospital.

Sadistic, dehumanizing people must be punished for being bad people...in the most sadistic, dehumanizing way possible?

Look, I'm all for restraining someone from committing further crimes, and I'm even willing to inflict pain and suffering on someone who did something awful in order to disincentivize further crimes.  But what possible moral is there in inflicting excess pain and suffering on someone?  Because it feels good to hurt people we think are bad?  Do you really think that's healthy, considering that's probably why people like Roof become mass-killers in the first place?

As a general rule, I think if our moral reasoning is "it's OK for me to do this awful thing because I'm a good person," we should really re-think what you're doing.

[Alcon]

I don't share Sanchez's sentiment, but I think he means the prisoners doing the sodomizing.  But what does count as "excess" harm?  Life in prison is certainly a lot of harm regardless of the conditions, but the killer certainly did a lot more harm to his victims.  It seems like a tough line to draw, though I agree that what Sanchez described does probably go overboard.

We could debate the line about how much torture is reasonable to levy on a bad person to discourage others from committing the same crime.  But that's not the sentiment that's being expressed in this thread.  I don't really understand why we should engage in, or hope for, any unnecessary sadism.  I don't even get the point of torturing an unrepentant psychopath if it doesn't accomplish anything.

Is it because it's pleasurable?  If it is, should we really be getting off on humiliating and torturing a human being, even one we think is awful?

Is it because he "deserves it"?  First off, what does it mean to "deserve" unnecessary humiliation and torture?  Second, how is being unnecessarily cruel and sadistic to bad people any different than what some monsters perceive themselves as doing?  They think they're right too, and I think it's important to restrain punishment to what's necessary and productive precisely because sadistic people otherwise abuse it.  Third, even if he does somehow "deserve it," what's with the gleefulness and violence-porn in this thread?

This seems like virtue-signaling behavior, but I don't really think it's virtuous at all.

[Alcon]

yo guys, including two guys who just empty-posted right after this post, any response?

I don't share Sanchez's sentiment, but I think he means the prisoners doing the sodomizing.  But what does count as "excess" harm?  Life in prison is certainly a lot of harm regardless of the conditions, but the killer certainly did a lot more harm to his victims.  It seems like a tough line to draw, though I agree that what Sanchez described does probably go overboard.

We could debate the line about how much torture is reasonable to levy on a bad person to discourage others from committing the same crime.  But that's not the sentiment that's being expressed in this thread.  I don't really understand why we should engage in, or hope for, any unnecessary sadism.  I don't even get the point of torturing an unrepentant psychopath if it doesn't accomplish anything.

Is it because it's pleasurable?  If it is, should we really be getting off on humiliating and torturing a human being, even one we think is awful?

Is it because he "deserves it"?  First off, what does it mean to "deserve" unnecessary humiliation and torture?  Second, how is being unnecessarily cruel and sadistic to bad people any different than what some monsters perceive themselves as doing?  They think they're right too, and I think it's important to restrain punishment to what's necessary and productive precisely because sadistic people otherwise abuse it.  Third, even if he does somehow "deserve it," what's with the gleefulness and violence-porn in this thread?

This seems like virtue-signaling behavior, but I don't really think it's virtuous at all.

[Alcon]

yo guys, including two guys who just empty-posted right after this post, any response?

I don't share Sanchez's sentiment, but I think he means the prisoners doing the sodomizing.  But what does count as "excess" harm?  Life in prison is certainly a lot of harm regardless of the conditions, but the killer certainly did a lot more harm to his victims.  It seems like a tough line to draw, though I agree that what Sanchez described does probably go overboard.

We could debate the line about how much torture is reasonable to levy on a bad person to discourage others from committing the same crime.  But that's not the sentiment that's being expressed in this thread.  I don't really understand why we should engage in, or hope for, any unnecessary sadism.  I don't even get the point of torturing an unrepentant psychopath if it doesn't accomplish anything.

Is it because it's pleasurable?  If it is, should we really be getting off on humiliating and torturing a human being, even one we think is awful?

Is it because he "deserves it"?  First off, what does it mean to "deserve" unnecessary humiliation and torture?  Second, how is being unnecessarily cruel and sadistic to bad people any different than what some monsters perceive themselves as doing?  They think they're right too, and I think it's important to restrain punishment to what's necessary and productive precisely because sadistic people otherwise abuse it.  Third, even if he does somehow "deserve it," what's with the gleefulness and violence-porn in this thread?

This seems like virtue-signaling behavior, but I don't really think it's virtuous at all.

Your post seemed to be about torture, not necessarily about the death penalty, whereas the empty-quoted "good" posts relate to the death penalty. Therefore, I'm not sure with whom you want to engage in a debate on this except for the people who express support for torture. I am against unnecessary humiliation and torture (and I think any humiliation and torture is generally unnecessary), but I do support the death penalty for people like Roof.

My post also does apply to the death penalty -- I don't understand the point of punishing someone, even an awful person, unless it functions as a deterrent or restraint.  But you're right: I was being unfair to the poster who just said "good."  Although think my point does apply to the post that claims the crime "warrants" it (what does that mean?) and says he looks forward to Roof "burning in hell."