Assault on gun owners

[Santander]

I want to add that i never understood when the left is arguing "universal background checks" .

Most people on the left don't really understand the background check process. Many on the left seem to think that the "gun show loophole" means that Armalite or Glock can just set up shop at a local gun show and sell semi-automatic guns to any old felon that shows up. They also think that you can just buy out-of-state guns online and have them shipped to your front door, when in fact you have to pick them up at a licensed dealer. They're really quite dangerous myths that have been perpetuated by anti-gun politicians.

[MK]

I want to add that i never understood when the left is arguing "universal background checks" .

Most people on the left don't really understand the background check process. Many on the left seem to think that the "gun show loophole" means that Armalite or Glock can just set up shop at a local gun show and sell semi-automatic guns to any old felon that shows up. They also think that you can just buy out-of-state guns online and have them shipped to your front door, when in fact you have to pick them up at a licensed dealer. They're really quite dangerous myths that have been perpetuated by anti-gun politicians.

Well thats certainly not the case as i outlined the actual process.   If i didn't have a carry permit which has its own process that takes anywhere from 15 to 30 days to get approved id have to stand in the store and wait for the background check to complete.  That could potentially take a day sometimes.   Gun shows its the same thing.

[Bojack Horseman]

The main problem with the beloved gun owners is that for so many of them, guns are a religion and are worshipped far more than any religious deity. Put a deadly weapon in the hands of a wild-eyed, rabid, deranged right-winger, and you get the Planned Parenthood shooting, IRS office attacks, and the Oklahoma City bombing.

The real reason that state-level gun control laws have limited success is because the laws aren't uniform across the country. All they do is buy a gun in Arozina where there are no gun safety laws at all and drive them into California. This is why I'm a believer in a strong federal government, is to overrule the children running the nutty red states for their own good.

[dead0man]

The problem though is that these people either think there should be an unrestricted right to gun ownership, or that it's how they come across.

I'm not saying nobody thinks this way, but they are in the extreme minority of gun advocates.

Yes. I just wanted to know. My reasoning for asking that question is to weed out who thinks the First Amendment only protects Christians while also thinking there should be no limitations to the Second Amendment. My views on guns are different than yours, we've established that, but I do respect your consistency.

Again, I'm sure there are people that think that way, but they ain't here.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

oh. i was hoping this was, like, an actual assault, rather than an incredibly lukewarm, noncontroversial measure

[Mopsus]

oh. i was hoping this was, like, an actual assault, rather than an incredibly lukewarm, noncontroversial measure

"Hoping"? I don't think actual assaults on gun owners tend to end very well...

[RightBehind]

The problem though is that these people either think there should be an unrestricted right to gun ownership, or that it's how they come across.

I'm not saying nobody thinks this way, but they are in the extreme minority of gun advocates.

Yes. I just wanted to know. My reasoning for asking that question is to weed out who thinks the First Amendment only protects Christians while also thinking there should be no limitations to the Second Amendment. My views on guns are different than yours, we've established that, but I do respect your consistency.

Again, I'm sure there are people that think that way, but they ain't here.

It is the extreme minority on both ends which help shape my opinions. They are vocal and prominent. One of these people is the Chief Justice of Alabama's Supreme Court.

[Mr. Reactionary]

The main problem with the beloved gun owners is that for so many of them, guns are a religion and are worshipped far more than any religious deity. Put a deadly weapon in the hands of a wild-eyed, rabid, deranged right-winger, and you get the Planned Parenthood shooting, IRS office attacks, and the Oklahoma City bombing.

[MK]

The problem though is that these people either think there should be an unrestricted right to gun ownership, or that it's how they come across.

I'm not saying nobody thinks this way, but they are in the extreme minority of gun advocates.

Yes. I just wanted to know. My reasoning for asking that question is to weed out who thinks the First Amendment only protects Christians while also thinking there should be no limitations to the Second Amendment. My views on guns are different than yours, we've established that, but I do respect your consistency.

Again, I'm sure there are people that think that way, but they ain't here.

Certain restrictions are in place.  No fully automatic weapons, felons can't legally buy guns,  certified mentally ill can't possess guns or buy them.   I disagree with no fully auto ,but yes there are other restrictions I didn't list.     The anti gun folks  goal is to completely disarm the American public so they will be at the mercy of tyrants.  Maybe it's not purposely intended but I believe they see the threat of gun owners to their far left european utopia.     Hawaii gun owners shouldn't allow this without a stand.

[Santander]

Certain restrictions are in place.  No fully automatic weapons, felons can't legally buy guns,  certified mentally ill can't possess guns or buy them.   I disagree with no fully auto ,but yes there are other restrictions I didn't list.     The anti gun folks  goal is to completely disarm the American public so they will be at the mercy of tyrants.  Maybe it's not purposely intended but I believe they see the threat of gun owners to their far left european utopia.     Hawaii gun owners shouldn't allow this without a stand.

Don't be so melodramatic. The federal government already has the power to be as tyrannical as they want, regardless of how armed the citizens are. I think most anti-gun politicians fall into two camps - the first uses guns as a wedge issue to pander to their base of liberal elites and urban minorities,  and the second is okay with restricting constitutional freedoms to serve their societal goals. Some of them want to do away with the Second Amendment altogether, but not to make it easier for the government to oppress the people - why would they need to do that when they can do it anyway regardless of whether you own guns or not?

[MK]

Certain restrictions are in place.  No fully automatic weapons, felons can't legally buy guns,  certified mentally ill can't possess guns or buy them.   I disagree with no fully auto ,but yes there are other restrictions I didn't list.     The anti gun folks  goal is to completely disarm the American public so they will be at the mercy of tyrants.  Maybe it's not purposely intended but I believe they see the threat of gun owners to their far left european utopia.     Hawaii gun owners shouldn't allow this without a stand.

Don't be so melodramatic. The federal government already has the power to be as tyrannical as they want, regardless of how armed the citizens are. I think most anti-gun politicians fall into two camps - the first uses guns as a wedge issue to pander to their base of liberal elites and urban minorities,  and the second is okay with restricting constitutional freedoms to serve their societal goals. Some of them want to do away with the Second Amendment altogether, but not to make it easier for the government to oppress the people - why would they need to do that when they can do it anyway regardless of whether you own guns or not?

They can't at least not without a fight.  Do you not understand the full intention of the 2nd amendment.
You must not understand gorilla warfare in a urban setting?

http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen.htm

[Santander]

Certain restrictions are in place.  No fully automatic weapons, felons can't legally buy guns,  certified mentally ill can't possess guns or buy them.   I disagree with no fully auto ,but yes there are other restrictions I didn't list.     The anti gun folks  goal is to completely disarm the American public so they will be at the mercy of tyrants.  Maybe it's not purposely intended but I believe they see the threat of gun owners to their far left european utopia.     Hawaii gun owners shouldn't allow this without a stand.

Don't be so melodramatic. The federal government already has the power to be as tyrannical as they want, regardless of how armed the citizens are. I think most anti-gun politicians fall into two camps - the first uses guns as a wedge issue to pander to their base of liberal elites and urban minorities,  and the second is okay with restricting constitutional freedoms to serve their societal goals. Some of them want to do away with the Second Amendment altogether, but not to make it easier for the government to oppress the people - why would they need to do that when they can do it anyway regardless of whether you own guns or not?

They can't at least not without a fight.  Do you not understand the full intention of the 2nd amendment.
You must not understand gorilla warfare in a urban setting?

http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen.htm

Guns will not protect you from drone strikes, illegal detention, or the federal government intelligence apparatus. The government does not need to repeal the individual right to bear arms to oppress you. Get that into your thick skull.

[MK]

Certain restrictions are in place.  No fully automatic weapons, felons can't legally buy guns,  certified mentally ill can't possess guns or buy them.   I disagree with no fully auto ,but yes there are other restrictions I didn't list.     The anti gun folks  goal is to completely disarm the American public so they will be at the mercy of tyrants.  Maybe it's not purposely intended but I believe they see the threat of gun owners to their far left european utopia.     Hawaii gun owners shouldn't allow this without a stand.

Don't be so melodramatic. The federal government already has the power to be as tyrannical as they want, regardless of how armed the citizens are. I think most anti-gun politicians fall into two camps - the first uses guns as a wedge issue to pander to their base of liberal elites and urban minorities,  and the second is okay with restricting constitutional freedoms to serve their societal goals. Some of them want to do away with the Second Amendment altogether, but not to make it easier for the government to oppress the people - why would they need to do that when they can do it anyway regardless of whether you own guns or not?

They can't at least not without a fight.  Do you not understand the full intention of the 2nd amendment.
You must not understand gorilla warfare in a urban setting?

http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen.htm

Guns will not protect you from drone strikes, illegal detention, or the federal government intelligence apparatus. The government does not need to repeal the individual right to bear arms to oppress you. Get that into your thick skull.

Yeah because after all you would love those things. 

I think this conversation reveled the lefts true desire to "oppress" the folks.

[Joe Republic]

If databases of gun owners are the hallmark of left-wing, liberal, socialist, constitution-trampling America-haters, then somebody better tell the NRA.

[MK]

Leftists have precisely the same respect for the Second Amendment that they have for the First Amendment.  Don't take my word for go read the posts in the "community forum".

[Joe Republic]

^ Everybody has a right to free speech, no matter how poorly worded or barely coherent it may be.

[MK]

^ Everybody has a right to free speech, no matter how poorly worded or barely coherent it may be.

Once again the left cant debate the facts and resort to personally attacking the other side when they have no answer for the 2nd amendent FACTS.   


Give me a break.

[Santander]

Once again the left cant debate the facts and resort to personally attacking the other side when they have no answer for the 2nd amendent FACTS.   

You've been using the term "left" as an epithet for everyone who happens to not agree with what you say. On social issues, I don't think anyone can reasonably call me as being on the left, and I certainly support gun rights and the Second Amendment. I just happen to have a pragmatic view on why the Second Amendment is important. I believe the Second Amendment is important partly because I think people should be able to defend themselves, but mostly because it is a constitutional right, and if we start cutting away at the Bill of Rights, who knows what kind of slippery slope that could lead to? I believe that it is the entirety of the Constitution that is the bulwark of Americans from tyranny. I think it's naive to believe that the Second Amendment alone protects us from tyranny, and framing the argument in such a way borders on idolatry of guns.

[Joe Republic]

^ Everybody has a right to free speech, no matter how poorly worded or barely coherent it may be.

Once again the left cant debate the facts and resort to personally attacking the other side when they have no answer for the 2nd amendent FACTS.   


Give me a break.

Your reading level seems limited, so I'll try to keep this to shorter sentences and basic vocabul... sorry, words:

The gun debate is not going to be settled on the Atlas forum.  I am speaking from eleven years of experience.  If anything could be settled, it is that the gun nuts have indeed 'won'.  They are happy that the the world sees America as insane, and warns its own citizens about visiting here.  But anyway, you are whining about some kind of registry of gun owners, when the NRA has already compiled one of their own.  Where is your outrage over that?

Please let me know if you would like me to explain any of the words I have used here.

[MK]

^ Everybody has a right to free speech, no matter how poorly worded or barely coherent it may be.

Once again the left cant debate the facts and resort to personally attacking the other side when they have no answer for the 2nd amendent FACTS.   


Give me a break.

Your reading level seems limited, so I'll try to keep this to shorter sentences and basic vocabul... sorry, words:

The gun debate is not going to be settled on the Atlas forum.  I am speaking from eleven years of experience.  If anything could be settled, it is that the gun nuts have indeed 'won'.  They are happy that the the world sees America as insane, and warns its own citizens about visiting here.  But anyway, you are whining about some kind of registry of gun owners, when the NRA has already compiled one of their own.  Where is your outrage over that?

Please let me know if you would like me to explain any of the words I have used here.

Lets dismiss assumptions that have been made.

1. I don't support the NRA never have.  You have never seen any of my posts indictacting that I did.

2. Its not about winning anything


Lastly that statement about the rest of the worlds view of America .  I would like for all those countries that feel that way to put it on paper and mail it to me.  That way I will have something to wipe my ass with when i run out of angel soft.    I mean really as if we are supposed to care or feel bad for being Americans?    Then again we do have a president who goes around the world apologizing.

[Santander]

Lastly that statement about the rest of the worlds view of America .  I would like for all those countries that feel that way to put it on paper and mail it to me.  That way I will have something to wipe my ass with when i run out of angel soft.    I mean really as if we are supposed to care or feel bad for being Americans?    Then again we do have a president who goes around the world apologizing.

America is a country, not a planet. As long as that remains true, obviously we should care.

[Joe Republic]

Lastly that statement about the rest of the worlds view of America .  I would like for all those countries that feel that way to put it on paper and mail it to me.  That way I will have something to wipe my ass with when i run out of angel soft.    I mean really as if we are supposed to care or feel bad for being Americans?    Then again we do have a president who goes around the world apologizing.

America is a country, not a planet. As long as that remains true, obviously we should care.

No, no, he's right.  U-S-A!!  U-S-A!!  *belch*  U-S-A!!

[Higgs]

Assaulters in the sense that they have draped America into a sick and obsessive gun culture. Cry about your second amendment rights all you want. To me, the gun is not more important than the human.

Oh please... there isn't a major "gun culture" in any big city in America. This isn't about guns, it's about freedom.

They only care about the second amendment. Not other ones. They are obsessed with their guns that they talk passionately about. That they'd rather see a child gunned down than for gun control legislation to pass.

Stick to the blaming gun owners argument, I'm sure it'll get you far.

[RightBehind]

Assaulters in the sense that they have draped America into a sick and obsessive gun culture. Cry about your second amendment rights all you want. To me, the gun is not more important than the human.

Oh please... there isn't a major "gun culture" in any big city in America. This isn't about guns, it's about freedom.

They only care about the second amendment. Not other ones. They are obsessed with their guns that they talk passionately about. That they'd rather see a child gunned down than for gun control legislation to pass.

Stick to the blaming gun owners argument, I'm sure it'll get you far.

There is blame to go around for the gun owning lunatics and the culture they create, yes. Sure, they're not at fault the way like the shooter(s) but they are not innocent.

[Santander]

There is blame to go around for the gun owning lunatics and the culture they create, yes. Sure, they're not at fault the way like the shooter(s) but they are not innocent.

How many gun owners are "lunatics" and how many of those are responsible for this "culture" that you're talking about? This argument is basically the equivalent of saying that American Muslims are to blame for Islamist jihad culture. Most gun owners are not members of the NRA, and many NRA members disagree with the NRA's approach to the gun debate.

Guns don't make people want to harm others, they are simply an instrument that allows them to. If someone wants to commit murder or other violent crimes, they will do so regardless of whether they have a gun or not. I am convinced that there are cultural factors that influence people who kill others, but it is not "gun culture" that causes it. Unfortunately, this is a deeply-ingrained flaw with American culture, but chipping away at the Bill of Rights or vilifying law-abiding people who only want to defend themselves or shoot for sport is not at all productive.