Pacific Constitutional Convention

[TheWildCard]

My fellow Pacificans,

The time has come for us to unite and assemble for a convention to re-write are regions constitution.

I now would like to take any suggestions you may have for the format of this convention.

[JohnFKennedy]

I think it should be emblazoned on a t-shirt that the Governor is required to wear, that would be a cool format.

[Emsworth]

I now would like to take any suggestions you may have for the format of this convention.

I would suggest that we first elect a chairman. Thereafter, I think that we can consider proposals topic by topic (Governors, the Legislature, etc.)

[Lt. Gov. Immy]

I now would like to take any suggestions you may have for the format of this convention.

I would suggest that we first elect a chairman. Thereafter, I think that we can consider proposals topic by topic (Governors, the Legislature, etc.)

Yes, I agree.  I think this all should be done in a thread in this forum and we could conduct votes in the voting forum.

[JohnFKennedy]

I vote Emsworth for Chairman if we are electing one .

[True Democrat]

I agree a chairman is needed.  Also, is there another forum we could use like the Second Consitutional Forum or something like that.

[TheWildCard]

Very well then, we will take nominations for the Chairmanship. Then we will have a 3 day vote (maybe over the elections) to nominate the Chair. A candidate for the Charmanship must except the nomination.

I will begin by nominating John D. Ford as Chair.

[JohnFKennedy]

I nominate Emsworth.

[Emsworth]

I nominate Emsworth.

Thank you for the nomination; I gladly accept.

[True Democrat]

Although both Emsworth and John Ford would be good choices, I second Emsworth's nomination.  John Ford is GM and that might conflict with him being Convention chairman.

[TheWildCard]

Okay Immy start a new yes or no vote to make Emsworth Chair of the constitutional convention.

[Lt. Gov. Immy]

Okay Immy start a new yes or no vote to make Emsworth Chair of the constitutional convention.

Sure.

[The Duke]

I support Emsworth for Chair, as it removes any appearance of conflict of interest.

[King]

I support Emsworth for Chair, as it removes any appearance of conflict of interest.

Just because it doesn't appear, doesn't mean it is there.

[TheWildCard]

Emsworth I hereby hand over control of Pacific Constitutional Convention to you.

I do have a suggestion.

I believe that votes should be opened for a week or until a majority of Pacificans have voted for or against a given proposal.

This way we won't have to bring the whole convention to a halt when a majority has already agreed on an action or proposal.

[Emsworth]

Thank you, Mr. Governor, for calling this Constitutional Convention. I would also like to thank Justice Kennedy for nominating me, and the delegates for voting for me.

I believe that we should first debate the general frame of the Constitution, and only then proceed to specific proposals. I would suggest that the Constitution include, in no particular order, the following:

- A preamble
- An article on the Executive
- An article on the Legislature and/or lawmaking
- An article on the Judiciary [if we decide to have one]
- An article on election procedure
- A Bill of Rights
- An article on amending the Constitution

Please mention any objections to any of the above parts, or any suggestions for further articles.

I don't intend to hold any actual votes at this stage; instead, we can just settle on the format and structure of the Constitution - in particular, what articles should be included.

[Vasall des Midas]

As close as possible to the current framework.
The most important bit being that it should remain very easy to change.

[Lt. Gov. Immy]

Sorry everyone for missing the end of the vote on chairman, I was away for the weekend.  Anyway, I agree on the structure that Emsworth put forward.  I'd like to base our Constitution on those of the other regions, yet keeping those apects that make our region unique.

[Emsworth]

I think that we may begin by considering a key issue: the general structure of the lawmaking process. We could use the proposition/initiative process, as we do presently. Alternatively, we could use an "open legislature," that is to say, a legislature that consists of all the citizens. The relative advantages of each seem to be as follows:

Legislature:
- Anyone may propose a bill, without need signatures.
- A simple procedure to amend the bill exists; once it receives the requisite signatures, amending a proposition may be clumsy
- In my experience, there tends to be more debate on bills; in many cases, people just sign proposition petitions without comment.
- The lawmaking process tends to be well-structured.

Propositions:
- Although propositions require signatures, many are willing to sign just to get them on the ballot.
- A vote on propositions can be held at a specified time (once each month), thereby increasing turnout. In many cases, just a few active citizens will be available to vote on bills.
- Bills can get bogged down in the Legislature; once they receive the required signatures, propositions do not suffer the same fate.

Thus, each side has its own advantages and disadvantages. I would suggest that we pick one or the other; using both would just make things more confusing.

Any other ideas on how to structure the lawmaking process would be welcome, as would be comments on the above two plans.

[Vasall des Midas]

I think that we may begin by considering a key issue: the general structure of the lawmaking process. We could use the proposition/initiative process, as we do presently. Alternatively, we could use an "open legislature," that is to say, a legislature that consists of all the citizens. The relative advantages of each seem to be as follows:

Legislature:
- Anyone may propose a bill, without need signatures.
- A simple procedure to amend the bill exists; once it receives the requisite signatures, amending a proposition may be clumsy
- In my experience, there tends to be more debate on bills; in many cases, people just sign proposition petitions without comment.
- The lawmaking process tends to be well-structured.

Propositions:
- Although propositions require signatures, many are willing to sign just to get them on the ballot.
- A vote on propositions can be held at a specified time (once each month), thereby increasing turnout. In many cases, just a few active citizens will be available to vote on bills.
- Bills can get bogged down in the Legislature; once they receive the required signatures, propositions do not suffer the same fate.

Thus, each side has its own advantages and disadvantages. I would suggest that we pick one or the other; using both would just make things more confusing.

Any other ideas on how to structure the lawmaking process would be welcome, as would be comments on the above two plans.

We switched to open legislature just a few months ago (although there was no amendment process), and were immediately submerged in new votes. Now we have a compromise between the two systems, where you still need some signatures (three or the governor's, as opposed to five or the governor's before the open legislature days), but votes may still be held anytime. This seems to work well, and I propose we stick with it.

[Emsworth]

We switched to open legislature just a few months ago (although there was no amendment process), and were immediately submerged in new votes. Now we have a compromise between the two systems, where you still need some signatures (three or the governor's, as opposed to five or the governor's before the open legislature days), but votes may still be held anytime. This seems to work well, and I propose we stick with it.

We could have, in that case, a formal "Legislature," but at the same time require bills to be seconded by three legislators or by the Governor (and Lt. Governor as well, if the Convention is so inclined) before receiving a vote.

[Vasall des Midas]

Since in the current makeup the lt.gov. supervises elections and has something called "judicial authority", there is a good reason for keeping that power away from him.

[Emsworth]

[Bump]

[Vasall des Midas]

[Bump]

Okay.

[Emsworth]

Well, there seems to be no disagreement on that issue.

Next, let us consider what may prove to be more controversial: how will the Governor and Lieutenant Governor be elected? There seems to be widespread discontent with instant runoff voting.