Pacific Constitutional Convention

[Vasall des Midas]

Never noticed any in the Pacific.

Of course, no Pacific Governors or Lt's race ever had more than two candidates...

[TheWildCard]

Never noticed any in the Pacific.

Of course, no Pacific Governors or Lt's race ever had more than two candidates...

That is true. Though I think we still should consider this for the future when gubernatorial races could become more competitive.

[No more McShame]

I personally like IRV.  That said, if someone comes up with a better idea, I would be open to hear them out.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I personally like IRV.  That said, if someone comes up with a better idea, I would be open to hear them out.

IRV is good, but Condorcet is better.

[Vasall des Midas]

Or I could live with Borda.

[The Duke]

I support keeping IRV/Preferential voting.  I thinks its the only reasonable system for a multi party country that also wants an executive branch.  Its either IRV or the Louisiana system I'm afraid.  Borda and Condorcet may not be easy enough for new people to pick up.  If someone wants to make a sales pitch to me on Condorcet or Borda, I'm open to changing my mind.

[Emsworth]

I think that Louisiana-style runoff voting would be fine. IRV would also be okay.

Another question we need to consider is this: should the Lt. Governor be elected on the same ticket as the Governor, or should he be elected separately, or should he be appointed?

[Vasall des Midas]

Separately elected. I don't see a reason why not.

[Emsworth]

I've started writing a draft for the Constitution, but I do have a question before I proceed.

We seem to have decided that we will have a Legislature consisting of all the citizens. Do the delegates feel that the Governor should also be a member? My personal view is that the Governor should not be a member, to maintain the separation of powers. The Governor presumably holds veto power anyway.

The same applies to the Lt. Governor, although we could make him or her the presiding officer of the Legislature with a tie-breaking vote.

[Vasall des Midas]

Keep it short and don't worry with "chairmen" of the "legislature" is my advice.

[Emsworth]

I have prepared a draft of the Constitution for discussion:
Preamble
We the People of Alaska, Washington, Idaho, Oregon, California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, and Hawaii, in order to establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do hereby ordain and establish this Constitution for the Pacific Region of Atlasia.

Article I

Section 1: Governor and Lieutenant Governor
1. The executive power shall be vested in a Governor and a Lieutenant Governor of the Pacific.
2. No person except a citizen of the Pacific with at least one hundred posts shall be Governor or Lieutenant Governor.
3. Before entering into the exercise of his or her duties, the Governor and the Lieutenant Governor shall each take the following oath: "I solemnly swear [affirm] that I will faithfully execute the office of Governor [Lieutenant Governor] and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitutions of Atlasia and the Pacific Region, so help me Dave."
4. The Governor shall take care that the laws of the Pacific are faithfully executed.

Section 2: General elections
1. General elections to the offices of Governor and Lieutenant shall be held in the months of March, July, and November.
2. Elections shall begin at midnight Pacific Standard Time on the penultimate Friday of a month, and shall conclude exactly seventy-two hours later.
3. Elections for Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall be separate and by preferential voting, and may be regulated by law.
4. The Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall take office at noon Pacific Standard Time on the first Friday following the election.

Section 3: Special elections
1. If the office of Governor falls vacant, the Lieutenant Governor shall become Governor.
2. If the office of Lieutenant Governor falls vacant, a special election for the office shall begin on the first Friday after the vacancy, and shall conclude seventy-two hours thereafter.
3. If the offices of Governor and Lieutenant Governor are vacant simultaneously, special elections for both shall begin on the first Friday after the vacancy arises, and shall conclude seventy-two hours thereafter.
4. The Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall take office immediately upon the conclusion of the special election.
5. Special elections shall be conducted in the same manner as a general election, according to clause 4 of section 2 of this article.

Article II

Section 1: Legislation
1. Any citizen may propose a bill to the Pacific Region.
2. The People shall vote on each bill that has been signed by a total of three citizens, or by the Governor, within one week of being proposed.
3. A referendum on each bill shall begin at a time determined by the Governor (but not more than one month and not less than one day after it obtains the required signatures) and shall remain open for one week.
4. If a majority of those voting approve, the bill shall become law, unless vetoed by the Governor within one week of passage.
5. The Governor may not veto any bill approved by at least two-thirds of those voting.

Section 2: Recalls
1. Any citizen may propose the recall of the Governor or Lieutenant Governor to the Pacific Region.
2. The People shall vote on each recall petition that has been signed by a total of five citizens within one week of being proposed.
3. A referendum on each recall petition shall begin one day after it obtains the required signatures and shall remain open for one week.
4. If at least two-thirds of those voting approve, the official named in the recall petition shall cease to hold office immediately.

Section 3: Constitutional Amendments
1. Any citizen may propose a constitutional amendment to the Pacific Region.
2. The People shall vote on each proposed constitutional amendment that has been signed by a total of five citizens, or by the Governor, within one week of being proposed.
3. A referendum on each constitutional amendment shall begin at a time determined by the Governor (but not more than one month and not less than one day after it obtains the required signatures) and shall remain open for one week.
4. If two-thirds of those voting approve, the proposed article of amendment shall be deemed a valid part of the Constitution.

Article III
[Bill of Rights]

Article IV
[Mechanism for ratification]
I have left the Bill of Rights and the mechanism for ratification to the convention itself.

[Vasall des Midas]

#Before entering into the exercise of his or her duties, the Governor and the Lieutenant Governor shall each take the following oath: "I solemnly swear [affirm] that I will faithfully execute the office of Governor [Lieutenant Governor] and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitutions of Atlasia and the Pacific Region, so help me Dave."

We didn't use to have an oath of office... I don't object to one, just thought I'd point it out.

#The Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall take office at noon Pacific Standard Time on the first Friday following the election.

We used to take office as soon as results were certified. Of course, this was unproblematic only because there never were any election disputes.

#If the office of Lieutenant Governor falls vacant, the Governor may appoint a Lieutenant Governor.

having drafted the amendment to get the Lt.Gov. elected in a by-election administered by the Gov. in case of a vacancy, I am of course fond of and attached to it.

#If the offices of Governor and Lieutenant Governor are vacant simultaneously, special elections for both shall begin on the first Friday after the vacancy arises, and shall conclude seventy-two hours thereafter.

This one's a change I heartily agree with. I don't know if anybody save me ever noticed, but under current law there would have been two by-elections on following weekends. I noticed that during my presidential campaign. It was a reason not to even think about appointing Wildcard to the cabinet...

Now here we get to the serious beef...

#The People shall vote on each proposed constitutional amendment that has been signed by a total of five citizens, or by the Governor, within one week of being proposed.
#A referendum on each constitutional amendment shall begin at a time determined by the Governor (but not more than one month and not less than one day after it obtains the required signatures) and shall remain open for one week.
#If two-thirds of those voting approve, the proposed article of amendment shall be deemed a valid part of the Constitution.

Under current Pacific law, amendments followed the exact same procedure as any old bill, and while it did make for an unreadable constitution as time passed, it also made for a very flexible instrument and served to avoid all those horrible legalistic arguments that have been plaguing Atlasia for months.
In fact, since there was no practical difference between laws and amendments anyways, some amendments were not even named "amendment" (the "Welcome Montana Act", off the top of my head). Nobody ever complained.
Which brings me to another minor quibble, btw: We had that list of member states at the beginning of the old constitution. I'd like to see that retained.
You also left out (intentionally or unintentionally?, honest question here) the Lt.Gov.'s duties.

[Emsworth]

We used to take office as soon as results were certified. Of course, this was unproblematic only because there never were any election disputes.

Yes, I thought about that as well. The possibility of disputes led me to delay the office-taking.

having drafted the amendment to get the Lt.Gov. elected in a by-election administered by the Gov. in case of a vacancy, I am of course fond of and attached to it.

That's fine; I'll amend the draft accordingly.

Under current Pacific law, amendments followed the exact same procedure as any old bill, and while it did make for an unreadable constitution as time passed, it also made for a very flexible instrument and served to avoid all those horrible legalistic arguments that have been plaguing Atlasia for months.

If the Constitution is as easily amendable as any other law, it seems to lose its value as the fundamental document of the region. We could, however, reduce the required majority to three-fifths if you prefer.

We had that list of member states at the beginning of the old constitution. I'd like to see that retained.

That's fine.

You also left out (intentionally or unintentionally?, honest question here) the Lt.Gov.'s duties.

Intentionally. I thought that it would be simpler just for the Governor to informally specify the Lt Gov's duties.

[Vasall des Midas]

Well, currently he was some sort of "judicial authority" - never sure how far reaching that was exactly; and he was the supervisor of elections. You see it was a sort of separation of powers - the Governor had the veto, the shortcut to the ballot, and of course the say in federal redistricting; the Lt.Gov. was supposed to have the more administrative stuff. I think some US states' admins work similarly.

[Platypus]

keep preferential voting

[True Democrat]

What do you guys think of the idea of preferential voting, but you can only preference half of the people on the ballot?  We could make an exception for that if there an odd number of people, you would round down the number of people one can preference (for example, if there were 7 candidates, you could preference 3).  Except, in the case of three candidates, one can preference two.

[Platypus]

that means the system is ineffective in reaching it's primary aim; to ensure that any candidate that is elected is elected with the support of a majority. Atlasia already goes against this ideal, but your idea would make it worse. The option to rank all candidates must at least be available, if not compulsory.

[Lt. Gov. Immy]

Well, currently he was some sort of "judicial authority" - never sure how far reaching that was exactly; and he was the supervisor of elections. You see it was a sort of separation of powers - the Governor had the veto, the shortcut to the ballot, and of course the say in federal redistricting; the Lt.Gov. was supposed to have the more administrative stuff. I think some US states' admins work similarly.

I agree.  I beleive that the Lt. Governor's powers should be enumerated and that they should be as follows:
1) Conducting elections
2) Presiding over the legislature and voting in the case of ties only

I think we should determine what exactly "judical authority" is and if we want that power concentrated in the hads of the Lt. Governor or if we wanted to creat another position like some other regions have done.

[Emsworth]

The Constitution proposed does maintain preferential voting, btw.

I'm inclined to agree with Lewis Trondheim; specifying that the Lt. Governor is the "chairman" of the Legislature is not necessary, and adds too many unneeded complications. Aside from judicial authority, I don't think that further duties should be specified; flexibility is preferable in such matters.

[King]

Article III
[Bill of Rights]

A Bill of Rights in the regional constitution might be a bad idea as it could declare the entire constitution as unconstitutional if the Senate writes a contradicting clause into the federal.

[Emsworth]

A Bill of Rights in the regional constitution might be a bad idea as it could declare the entire constitution as unconstitutional if the Senate writes a contradicting clause into the federal.

Just because one part of the regional Constitution violates the federal Constitution, the whole regional Constitution does not become invalid. Only the part that violates the federal Constitution is invalid; everything else remains perfectly intact.

[True Federalist]

Having taken a look at Emsworth's draft, I have some suggestions to make on the Preamble and Section I.
Preamble
We the People of Alaska, Washington, Idaho, Oregon, California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, and Hawaii the Pacific Region, in order to establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do hereby ordain and establish this Constitution for the Pacific Region of Atlasia.

Article I

Section 1: Governor and Lieutenant Governor
1. The executive power shall be vested in a Governor and a Lieutenant Governor of the Pacific.
2. No person except a citizen of the Pacific with at least one hundred posts since becoming a citizen of the Pacific shall be Governor or Lieutenant Governor.
3. Before entering into the exercise of his or her duties, the Governor and the Lieutenant Governor shall each take the following oath: "I solemnly swear [affirm] that I will faithfully execute the office of Governor [Lieutenant Governor] and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitutions of Atlasia and the Pacific Region, so help me Dave."
4. The Governor shall take care that the laws of the Pacific are faithfully executed.

Section 2: General elections
1. General elections to the offices of Governor and Lieutenant shall be held in the months of March, July, and November.
2. Elections shall begin at midnight Pacific Standard Time on the penultimate Friday of a month, and shall conclude exactly seventy-two hours later.
3. Elections for Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall be separate and by preferential voting, and may be regulated by law.
4. The Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall take office at noon Pacific Standard Time on the first Friday following the election.

Section 3: Special elections
1. If the office of Governor falls vacant, the Lieutenant Governor shall become Governor.
2. If the office of Lieutenant Governor falls vacant, a special election for the office shall begin on the first Friday after the vacancy, and shall conclude seventy-two hours thereafter.
3. If the offices of Governor and Lieutenant Governor are vacant simultaneously, special elections for both shall begin on the first Friday after the vacancy arises, and shall conclude seventy-two hours thereafter.
4. The Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall take office immediately upon the conclusion of the special election.
5. Special elections shall be conducted in the same manner as a general election, according to clause 4 of section 2 of this article.

[Vasall des Midas]

The Constitution proposed does maintain preferential voting, btw.

I'm inclined to agree with Lewis Trondheim; specifying that the Lt. Governor is the "chairman" of the Legislature is not necessary, and adds too many unneeded complications. Aside from judicial authority, I don't think that further duties should be specified; flexibility is preferable in such matters.

I urge you to include the supervising of elections as his duty.

[Vasall des Midas]

Um, Ernest. He just edited in the list of states.

[Emsworth]

What does the Convention think about appointing a separate judge to resolve disputes, etc.?