Secret Ballot Procedure Bill

[True Democrat]

As Secretary of Forum Affairs, I must urge every Senator to reject this  bill.  First of all, this adds too much bureaucracy to the already large government.  Also, there is no way to make sure that the SoFA will count the ballots correctly and not for personal gain.  Once again, please take this bill off the table as soon as possible.

[MasterJedi]

As Secretary of Forum Affairs, I must urge every Senator to reject this  bill.  First of all, this adds too much bureaucracy to the already large government.  Also, there is no way to make sure that the SoFA will count the ballots correctly and not for personal gain.  Once again, please take this bill off the table as soon as possible.

Ok people get it straight, there's three people on the commite to count the votes, I doubt they'll all be in on it because they wouldn't all be in the same party.

[True Democrat]

As Secretary of Forum Affairs, I must urge every Senator to reject this  bill.  First of all, this adds too much bureaucracy to the already large government.  Also, there is no way to make sure that the SoFA will count the ballots correctly and not for personal gain.  Once again, please take this bill off the table as soon as possible.

Ok people get it straight, there's three people on the commite to count the votes, I doubt they'll all be in on it because they wouldn't all be in the same party.

But Atlasia isn't always based on ideology.  For example, both Keystone Phil and I do not have positive views of Harry.  In my opinion, the current system is fine.

[Joe Republic]

As Secretary of Forum Affairs, I must urge every Senator to reject this bill. First of all, this adds too much bureaucracy to the already large government. Also, there is no way to make sure that the SoFA will count the ballots correctly and not for personal gain. Once again, please take this bill off the table as soon as possible.

I'm disappointed by this lack of support, but I wonder if you've fully understood it.  There are THREE people to count the ballots, not one.  I've said that so many times I've now lost count.  As for the bureaucracy part, there's actually very little extra effort required.  All it involves is keeping track of a few PMs, and then checking they match the ones received by two other people, and then posting the results like you already do anyway.

[Gabu]

Just didn't want you to miss them Gabu, sometimes you do that!

I'm going to be very glad when my term as PPT expires and someone else gets to be subjected to this.

Oh you know you'll run for another round of it.

Actually, I can't; a PPT can only hold that office for eight consecutive months, and since I started in January, August will be my last month.

With regards to the bill in question, I would like to agree with those who feel that it's not a major issue, but personally, I'm disgusted at the way that (ahem) certain people conduct themselves with regards to people who vote in a way that they disapprove of.  I really think that things would be more appealing for new people (and older people alike) if there was an option to enable oneself to vote without having to incur the wrath of (ahem) certain people because you voted in an incorrect way.

Obviously this would leave things open to possible abuse, but honestly, do you guys want to repeal the secret ballot in America?  No?  Then why is it such a big deal there?  If we can establish enough checks on things (such as having one person from each branch of government getting a copy of the votes), it shouldn't be a problem, and it would be a remedy for what I consider to be quite a serious issue that undermines the integrity of democracy in which everyone is free to vote for whom they want.

[Gabu]

As there has been no debate on the amendments proposed, I hereby call them to a vote:

1. In Section 2, Clause 3, the list of eligible committee members is amended to remove the PPT and all senators as they are listed, and replace them as follows:
* District 1 senator
* District 2 senator
* District 3 senator
* District 4 senator
* District 5 senator
* Mideast Regional senator
* Midwest Regional senator
* Northeast Regional senator
* Pacific Regional senator
* Southeast Regional senator

2. Of the three original committee members, the Deputy SoFA is replaced by the Senate PPT.

All senators in favor, vote "aye"; all against, vote "nay".

---

Aye, aye.

[MasterJedi]

Aye to both amendments

[Sam Spade]

Aye to both amendments

[Colin]

Aye, Aye

[King]

Aye
Aye

[Gabu]

With five votes in favor to none against, and with only nine senators, both amendments have passed.

The new version of the bill is as follows:

Secret Ballot Procedure Bill

Section 1

1. During any federal election, a registered voter may choose to submit their ballot or absentee ballot in secret.  This is considered an optional alternative form of voting to a public ballot.  The method of vote submission is outlined in Section 2, Clause 4 below.

2. All secret ballots must satisfy all clauses outlined in Section 1 of the Omnibus Election System, Procedure and Certification Act.

3. No registered voter may vote both publicly and secretly in the same election.  If this occurs, the Secretary of Forum Affairs will discount both votes.

Section 2

1. For the purposes of counting and validating secret ballots, an Electoral Committee will be assembled by no later than a week before the election is scheduled to begin.

2. The Committee will be comprised of three members, consisting of the Secretary of Forum Affairs, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate.

3. In the event that any of the office holders listed either are themselves candidates in the election or are not present to fulfill their duty, those in the aforementioned situation shall be replaced by the highest office holder in the following list who is not a candidate present in the election and who is present to fulfill the duty:

Senior Associate Justice
Junior Associate Justice
Vice President
Secretary of State
Attorney General
Secretary of Defense
Secretary of the Treasury
District 1 senator
District 2 senator
District 3 senator
District 4 senator
District 5 senator
Mideast Regional senator
Midwest Regional senator
Northeast Regional senator
Pacific Regional senator
Southeast Regional senator

4. Identical copies of all secret ballots will be submitted for counting by the voter to each of the three members of the Committee in the form of a personal message.

5. Once voting has officially ended, the Committee will convene in a private and suitable manner.  Each member will ensure that their own collected ballots are identical to the corresponding ballots collected by the other two members.

6. In the event that any one of the three copies of a ballot does not match the corresponding copies, the ballot will be discounted.

7. All legitimate ballots will then be incorporated into the vote count and subsequent certification for the relevant election.

8. Once the election has been certified, the Committee will disband.

[MasterJedi]

While some other people don't like this I urge my fellow Senators to vote for this bill!

[Colin]

I would like to say that this bill, as it stands, is unconstitutional and if it passes I will probably bring a complaint before the Supreme Court in which its constitutionality is questioned.

The parts of the constitution that would cause this bill to be unconstitutional are Article I, Section 4, Clause 6 which states "The Senate shall have necessary power to determine regulations for the procedure of and the form of Senate elections and shall have necessary power to determine a procedure for declaration of candidacy for such elections. All elections to the Senate shall be by public post." (Important area bolded) The other clause that makes this unconstitutional is Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 which states, "The Senate shall have necessary power to determine regulations for the procedure of and the form of Presidential elections and shall have necessary power to determine a procedure for declaration of candidacy for such elections. All elections to the Presidency shall be by public post. " (Important Area in Bold) Therefore we can see that this bill would be unconstitutional unless it is made into an amendment of the Second Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia.

I am not sure if this bill's constitutionality was brought up before but I would like to bring this to the attention of the fellow Senators before we begin a vote.

[Joe Republic]

I really wish people would read everything I've already said about this bill so far, as I find it really frustrating having to repeat myself.

Thank you to Peter for his recommendations regarding this bill.  He has noted that this measure may actually conflict with Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the Constitution, i.e. "... All elections to the Presidency shall be by public post."  However, I believe that there may be a loophole here that prevents the Senate from going to the trouble of turning this into a messy constitutional amendment process.  As the SoFA reports the summary of the secret votes at the end of the election weekend in the actual voting booth thread, then I would see that as a public post on behalf of the voters, which therefore complies with the Constitution's requirements.  Hopefully the Senate will agree with this logic.

[Sam Spade]

I would like to propose amending Section 2, Clause 2-3 to read (changes in bold):

2. The Committee will be comprised of three members, consisting of the Secretary of Forum Affairs, the Vice President, and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate.

3. In the event that any of the office holders listed either are themselves candidates in the election or are not present to fulfill their duty, those in the aforementioned situation shall be replaced by the highest office holder in the following list who is not a candidate present in the election and who is present to fulfill the duty:

Secretary of State
Attorney General
Secretary of Defense
Secretary of the Treasury
District 1 senator
District 2 senator
District 3 senator
District 4 senator
District 5 senator
Mideast Regional senator
Midwest Regional senator
Northeast Regional senator
Pacific Regional senator
Southeast Regional senator
The purpose of this is to keep the Courts from staying out of an election process that they may have to judge on (and therefore recuse themselves from judging), should any improprieties arise.

[Peter]

Its just me, but given all the mentioning of possible corruption that might occur, you'd think that .... oh .... I don't know, we'd criminalise that corruption before the horse bolts.

[jokerman]

I'd like to propose an amendment on the chain of command list:

Secretary of State
Attorney General
Secretary of Defense
Secretary of the Treasury
District 4 senator
District 1 senator
District 2 senator
District 3 senator
District 5 senator
Southeast Regional senator
Mideast Regional senator
Midwest Regional senator
Northeast Regional senator
Pacific Regional senator

[MasterJedi]

I'd like to propose an amendment on the chain of command list:

Secretary of State
Attorney General
Secretary of Defense
Secretary of the Treasury
District 4 senator
District 1 senator
District 2 senator
District 3 senator
District 5 senator
Southeast Regional senator
Mideast Regional senator
Midwest Regional senator
Northeast Regional senator
Pacific Regional senator

No the numbers in order of high to low is fine, no need to give your district and then region special preferences.

[Joe Republic]

The last proposed amendment was a clumsy and obvious attempt at a filibuster.

Sam's is a good one though, as I've been convinced of the need to remove the Supreme Sourt Justices from the procedure.

[True Democrat]

I'm starting to like this bill more and more (that doesn't mean I support it yet).  Voting late to make certain candidates win is a bad thing.  I think people should vote based on who they believe should be President, not who is in the lead and they don't like.

[Colin]

I would also like to put forward an amendment to this bill:

Section 9

Corruption, electoral fraud, the changing of votes, and tampering with votes in any way, is hereby criminalized in Atlasia. All members of the said committee who are found guilty of any of these charges will have their voting rights striped for a maximum of one year. Trials will be conducted according to the provisions set in place by the Omnibus Criminal Law Act.

[??????????]

I would also like to put forward an amendment to this bill:

Section 9

Corruption, electoral fraud, the changing of votes, and tampering with votes in any way, is hereby criminalized in Atlasia. All members of the said committee who are found guilty of any of these charges will have their voting rights striped for a maximum of one year. Trials will be conducted according to the provisions set in place by the Omnibus Criminal Law Act.

I agree with this bill!

[WiseGuy]

I would also like to put forward an amendment to this bill:

Section 9

Corruption, electoral fraud, the changing of votes, and tampering with votes in any way, is hereby criminalized in Atlasia. All members of the said committee who are found guilty of any of these charges will have their voting rights striped for a maximum of one year. Trials will be conducted according to the provisions set in place by the Omnibus Criminal Law Act.

I agree with this bill!

Me too.

[Nation]

While some other people don't like this I urge my fellow Senators to vote for this bill!

I urge MasterJedi to keep saying things like this. This is a practical, good bill. If it gets defeated, then I really won't know what to say.

[MasterJedi]

I would also like to put forward an amendment to this bill:

Section 9

Corruption, electoral fraud, the changing of votes, and tampering with votes in any way, is hereby criminalized in Atlasia. All members of the said committee who are found guilty of any of these charges will have their voting rights striped for a maximum of one year. Trials will be conducted according to the provisions set in place by the Omnibus Criminal Law Act.

This is a good amendment, I'll vote for it. Need to get this done now and not after someone does something.