Some campaign aides urging Bernie to quit after Tuesday

[Progressive]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-sanders-campaign-is-split-over-whether-to-fight-on-past-tuesday-1465171997

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Can't get around the WSJ paywall, but this sounds like Devine v Weaver.

Devine was always the ambassador to the establishment, anyway. I doubt he'll win on this.

[Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it.]

Sorry Bernard, you are a great candidate but it's time to face the music and drop out.

[IceSpear]

I doubt he'll continue to persist in the "contested convention" fantasy once the entire weight of the Democratic Party, including Obama and Biden, bears down in support of Hillary and her win is no longer theoretical, but official. There will even be dissent within his own campaign and among many of his allies (MoveOn has disavowed his strategy of going after superdelegates, for example.) There's also the question of whether or not he even means it, or is simply saying it to ensure his voters turn out in the upcoming contests.

It would also be a particularly stupid move on his part to not concede. He can choose to be the leader of a progressive movement in the country by increasing his stature in the Senate and increasing his influence on the process and the platform. Or he can become leader of the Reddit cultists, lose all leverage, get all his potential changes voted down at the DNC, and spend the final years of his career as a pariah in the Senate, possibly even getting stripped of committee assignments, and seen as even worse than Nader by the vast majority of Democrats if god forbid Trump won. Seems like quite a simple choice.

Though if he does act like a sore loser and tries to overturn democracy, I'll admit I was wrong, lose all respect for him, and likely join the Landslide Lyndon/Lyin Steve hatred crew.

[HilLarry]

We can make this "unification" thing very easy Bernard let's not screw it up!

[Lyin' Steve]

Though if he does act like a sore loser and tries to overturn democracy, I'll admit I was wrong, lose all respect for him, and likely join the Landslide Lyndon/Lyin Steve hatred crew.

At least you understand where I'm coming from since I already see him as a sore loser based on everything he's done so far, and treat promises to take it to the convention and attempt (in an act of outlandish hypocrisy) to overturn the democracy as being as bad as actually doing it.

[Hermit For Peace]

Not to mention that on Wednesday, after the Tuesday primaries, Hillary is going to go to work on Bernie and his supporters as well. So if Obama, Biden, and the rest of the Dem Party start getting after Bernie then maybe he'll concede. He doesn't owe his supporters heat stroke, exhaustion, or a heart attack (at his age).

It's OK to ease up Bernie, you fought like a 21 yr old. Time to rest now.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

If he is promised in writing that 1) the democrats will not attempt to cancel the official convention roll call vote in whole or in part, and 2) the democrats will not simply take away all of his convention committee posts as soon as he is no longer a candidate, then I think he would concede. But if people are taking a "BERNIE DESERVES NOTHING!" attitude, he'll stay in.

[Xing]

I'll definitely lose a great deal of respect for Sanders if he seriously intends on going through to the convention. However, I highly doubt he'll stay in much longer. He'll probably drop out some time between the 8th and the 14th. If he does, and gives a passionate endorsement of Clinton, urging his supporters to back her, will his haters admit they were at least partially wrong about him?

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

If he is promised in writing that 1) the democrats will not attempt to cancel the official convention roll call vote in whole or in part, and 2) the democrats will not simply take away all of his convention committee posts as soon as he is no longer a candidate, then I think he would concede. But if people are taking a "BERNIE DESERVES NOTHING!" attitude, he'll stay in.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Bernie has the right to be heard and his issues thrashed out at the Convention. But he will do his long-term brand no good by trying to push this 'contested convention' BS any further.

I've never hated him, ever. But his strategy, which includes misleading his supporters and his campaign lying to them, has made me lose respect. A strong endorsement would absolutely restore that support.

I find it really strange that despite losing (and having still done well) that all the responsibility for reconciliation rests with Hillary. In 2008 Bill and Hillary were expected to do their part, and their endorsements and the rejection of the PUMA faction beyond insisting for catharsis was key to healing the wounds. Bernie's supporters deserve to be heard and the respected, but he also has a responsibility to urge unity and a positive endorsement of Hillary, not just a "she's better than Trump" speech.

So, Bernie getting 'nothing' would be silly and damaging, but he's not in the position to DEMAND anything more than a fair hearing and the representation on the DNC committee that he received.

[Lyin' Steve]

I'll definitely lose a great deal of respect for Sanders if he seriously intends on going through to the convention. However, I highly doubt he'll stay in much longer. He'll probably drop out some time between the 8th and the 14th. If he does, and gives a passionate endorsement of Clinton, urging his supporters to back her, will his haters admit they were at least partially wrong about him?

I'll admit that I was wrong about him being a bitter, stubborn, graceless asshole.  I'll also be confused since to do so would go against character and everything we know about him based on his actions thus far in the primary.

My guess is that he waits a week or two to try to blackmail the Democrats into kissing his ass, and then gives a begrudging semi-endorsement where he mostly talks about himself and how great his campaign was.  Something like the Ryan endorsement, except less motivated by integrity and more by selfishness.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Bernie has the right to be heard and his issues thrashed out at the Convention. But he will do his long-term brand no good by trying to push this 'contested convention' BS any further.

I've never hated him, ever. But his strategy, which includes misleading his supporters and his campaign lying to them, has made me lose respect. A strong endorsement would absolutely restore that support.

I find it really strange that despite losing (and having still done well) that all the responsibility for reconciliation rests with Hillary. In 2008 Bill and Hillary were expected to do their part, and their endorsements and the rejection of the PUMA faction beyond insisting for catharsis was key to healing the wounds. Bernie's supporters deserve to be heard and the respected, but he also has a responsibility to urge unity and a positive endorsement of Hillary, not just a "she's better than Trump" speech.

So, Bernie getting 'nothing' would be silly and damaging, but he's not in the position to DEMAND anything more than a fair hearing and the representation on the DNC committee that he received.

I would certainly regain some respect for him if he started acting like an adult again and bit the bullet. I guess we'll just have to wait and see which side of the Bernie coin will land face up.

[Pragmatic Conservative]

I'll definitely lose a great deal of respect for Sanders if he seriously intends on going through to the convention. However, I highly doubt he'll stay in much longer. He'll probably drop out some time between the 8th and the 14th. If he does, and gives a passionate endorsement of Clinton, urging his supporters to back her, will his haters admit they were at least partially wrong about him?

I'll admit that I was wrong about him being a bitter, stubborn, graceless asshole.  I'll also be confused since to do so would go against character and everything we know about him based on his actions thus far in the primary.

My guess is that he waits a week or two to try to blackmail the Democrats into kissing his ass, and then gives a begrudging semi-endorsement where he mostly talks about himself and how great his campaign was.  Something like the Ryan endorsement, except less motivated by integrity and more by selfishness.

I'll definitely lose a great deal of respect for Sanders if he seriously intends on going through to the convention. However, I highly doubt he'll stay in much longer. He'll probably drop out some time between the 8th and the 14th. If he does, and gives a passionate endorsement of Clinton, urging his supporters to back her, will his haters admit they were at least partially wrong about him?

I'll admit that I was wrong about him being a bitter, stubborn, graceless asshole.  I'll also be confused since to do so would go against character and everything we know about him based on his actions thus far in the primary.

My guess is that he waits a week or two to try to blackmail the Democrats into kissing his ass, and then gives a begrudging semi-endorsement where he mostly talks about himself and how great his campaign was.  Something like the Ryan endorsement, except less motivated by integrity and more by selfishness.

Candidates however almost always pledge to fight on even hours before they announce they are suspending their campaign. 

[Lyin' Steve]

Bernie has the right to be heard and his issues thrashed out at the Convention. But he will do his long-term brand no good by trying to push this 'contested convention' BS any further.

I've never hated him, ever. But his strategy, which includes misleading his supporters and his campaign lying to them, has made me lose respect. A strong endorsement would absolutely restore that support.

I find it really strange that despite losing (and having still done well) that all the responsibility for reconciliation rests with Hillary. In 2008 Bill and Hillary were expected to do their part, and their endorsements and the rejection of the PUMA faction beyond insisting for catharsis was key to healing the wounds. Bernie's supporters deserve to be heard and the respected, but he also has a responsibility to urge unity and a positive endorsement of Hillary, not just a "she's better than Trump" speech.

So, Bernie getting 'nothing' would be silly and damaging, but he's not in the position to DEMAND anything more than a fair hearing and the representation on the DNC committee that he received.

I would certainly regain some respect for him if he started acting like an adult again and bit the bullet. I guess we'll just have to wait and see which side of the Bernie coin will land face up.

For me, it would take a lot more than a mere enthusiastic endorsement to undo the last year, and particularly the last six weeks, of obscene behavior.  Bernie has intentionally systematically poisoned the attitudes of an entire generation of young people who are just getting involved in politics towards the Democratic party and made a strong effort to convince them that the party is riddled with corruption, the election is rigged against their interests, most of its politicians are lying, bought-and-paid-for establishment shills, and its nominee is... well, too many things to list really.  I want to see him make a sincere and enthusiastic effort to undo the toxic, negative effect he has had on the party and on our democratic system in general in the minds of all these impressionable kids.  You can't just burn down my house, shoot my dog, and then leave a 20 dollar bill on what's left of my porch and expect me to call it even.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Bernie has the right to be heard and his issues thrashed out at the Convention. But he will do his long-term brand no good by trying to push this 'contested convention' BS any further.

I've never hated him, ever. But his strategy, which includes misleading his supporters and his campaign lying to them, has made me lose respect. A strong endorsement would absolutely restore that support.

I find it really strange that despite losing (and having still done well) that all the responsibility for reconciliation rests with Hillary. In 2008 Bill and Hillary were expected to do their part, and their endorsements and the rejection of the PUMA faction beyond insisting for catharsis was key to healing the wounds. Bernie's supporters deserve to be heard and the respected, but he also has a responsibility to urge unity and a positive endorsement of Hillary, not just a "she's better than Trump" speech.

So, Bernie getting 'nothing' would be silly and damaging, but he's not in the position to DEMAND anything more than a fair hearing and the representation on the DNC committee that he received.

I would certainly regain some respect for him if he started acting like an adult again and bit the bullet. I guess we'll just have to wait and see which side of the Bernie coin will land face up.

For me, it would take a lot more than a mere enthusiastic endorsement to undo the last year, and particularly the last six weeks, of obscene behavior.  Bernie has intentionally systematically poisoned the attitudes of an entire generation of young people who are just getting involved in politics towards the Democratic party and made a strong effort to convince them that the party is riddled with corruption, the election is rigged against their interests, most of its politicians are lying, bought-and-paid-for establishment shills, and its nominee is... well, too many things to list really.  I want to see him make a sincere and enthusiastic effort to undo the toxic, negative effect he has had on the party and on our democratic system in general in the minds of all these impressionable kids.  You can't just burn down my house, shoot my dog, and then leave a 20 dollar bill on what's left of my porch and expect me to call it even.

I've voiced my concern on his influence among young voters' thinking before, it's not lost on me. Conceding would be the start of his transition into a more respectable figure, not the end. He has many a wound to mend.

[IceSpear]

Bernie has the right to be heard and his issues thrashed out at the Convention. But he will do his long-term brand no good by trying to push this 'contested convention' BS any further.

I've never hated him, ever. But his strategy, which includes misleading his supporters and his campaign lying to them, has made me lose respect. A strong endorsement would absolutely restore that support.

I find it really strange that despite losing (and having still done well) that all the responsibility for reconciliation rests with Hillary. In 2008 Bill and Hillary were expected to do their part, and their endorsements and the rejection of the PUMA faction beyond insisting for catharsis was key to healing the wounds. Bernie's supporters deserve to be heard and the respected, but he also has a responsibility to urge unity and a positive endorsement of Hillary, not just a "she's better than Trump" speech.

So, Bernie getting 'nothing' would be silly and damaging, but he's not in the position to DEMAND anything more than a fair hearing and the representation on the DNC committee that he received.

I would certainly regain some respect for him if he started acting like an adult again and bit the bullet. I guess we'll just have to wait and see which side of the Bernie coin will land face up.

For me, it would take a lot more than a mere enthusiastic endorsement to undo the last year, and particularly the last six weeks, of obscene behavior.  Bernie has intentionally systematically poisoned the attitudes of an entire generation of young people who are just getting involved in politics towards the Democratic party and made a strong effort to convince them that the party is riddled with corruption, the election is rigged against their interests, most of its politicians are lying, bought-and-paid-for establishment shills, and its nominee is... well, too many things to list really.  I want to see him make a sincere and enthusiastic effort to undo the toxic, negative effect he has had on the party and on our democratic system in general in the minds of all these impressionable kids.  You can't just burn down my house, shoot my dog, and then leave a 20 dollar bill on what's left of my porch and expect me to call it even.

To be fair, most of that stuff you listed was propagated by the cult and their bubble, not Sanders himself. I do agree he should've been much stronger in condemning the deranged extremist elements of his support, but the vast majority of politicians refuse to do so in similar situations. And since I never saw Bernie as anything other than a politician (unlike many others), I don't really hold a grudge against him for it.

[Eraserhead]

I'll be cool with whatever he decides to do but I won't be voting for Clinton in New York either way.

[RaphaelDLG]

I'll definitely lose a great deal of respect for Sanders if he seriously intends on going through to the convention. However, I highly doubt he'll stay in much longer. He'll probably drop out some time between the 8th and the 14th. If he does, and gives a passionate endorsement of Clinton, urging his supporters to back her, will his haters admit they were at least partially wrong about him?

I'll admit that I was wrong about him being a bitter, stubborn, graceless asshole.  I'll also be confused since to do so would go against character and everything we know about him based on his actions thus far in the primary.

My guess is that he waits a week or two to try to blackmail the Democrats into kissing his ass, and then gives a begrudging semi-endorsement where he mostly talks about himself and how great his campaign was.  Something like the Ryan endorsement, except less motivated by integrity and more by selfishness.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Lyin' Steve]

Bernie has the right to be heard and his issues thrashed out at the Convention. But he will do his long-term brand no good by trying to push this 'contested convention' BS any further.

I've never hated him, ever. But his strategy, which includes misleading his supporters and his campaign lying to them, has made me lose respect. A strong endorsement would absolutely restore that support.

I find it really strange that despite losing (and having still done well) that all the responsibility for reconciliation rests with Hillary. In 2008 Bill and Hillary were expected to do their part, and their endorsements and the rejection of the PUMA faction beyond insisting for catharsis was key to healing the wounds. Bernie's supporters deserve to be heard and the respected, but he also has a responsibility to urge unity and a positive endorsement of Hillary, not just a "she's better than Trump" speech.

So, Bernie getting 'nothing' would be silly and damaging, but he's not in the position to DEMAND anything more than a fair hearing and the representation on the DNC committee that he received.

I would certainly regain some respect for him if he started acting like an adult again and bit the bullet. I guess we'll just have to wait and see which side of the Bernie coin will land face up.

For me, it would take a lot more than a mere enthusiastic endorsement to undo the last year, and particularly the last six weeks, of obscene behavior.  Bernie has intentionally systematically poisoned the attitudes of an entire generation of young people who are just getting involved in politics towards the Democratic party and made a strong effort to convince them that the party is riddled with corruption, the election is rigged against their interests, most of its politicians are lying, bought-and-paid-for establishment shills, and its nominee is... well, too many things to list really.  I want to see him make a sincere and enthusiastic effort to undo the toxic, negative effect he has had on the party and on our democratic system in general in the minds of all these impressionable kids.  You can't just burn down my house, shoot my dog, and then leave a 20 dollar bill on what's left of my porch and expect me to call it even.

To be fair, most of that stuff you listed was propagated by the cult and their bubble, not Sanders himself. I do agree he should've been much stronger in condemning the deranged extremist elements of his support, but the vast majority of politicians refuse to do so in similar situations. And since I never saw Bernie as anything other than a politician (unlike many others), I don't really hold a grudge against him for it.

One of the main reasons I've been so strongly against Sanders since Oct/Nov, when it took many of the other anti-Sanders folks until the last few weeks to get on board, is because I've been very aware of how his campaign initiates, stokes, and subtly encourages these kinds of ideas and this kind of behavior.  Maybe it's just from how much I've learned about campaign tactics over the years but to me it was always apparent what he was doing when I saw him subtly imply some shady idea, then his social media brigade and band of surrogates would take the idea and run with it and flood the internet and airwaves with a much stronger and darker version of whatever he was creating, and then he would get asked about it later and give an even-handed response where he affirmed the merits of the idea while refusing to go as far personally as the rest of his operation was intent on going.

Reminds me of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth -- Bush attacks Kerry for being cowardly and un-American, SBVT (orchestrated behind the scenes by the Bush campaign) takes that to an extreme by highly-publicly smearing him as a coward in wartime and American traitor, and then when it circles back to Bush he refused to condemn the attacks, thus silently validating them for his supporters even if he didn't outright repeat them.  Kerry was well aware of what was going on -- "Of course, the President keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that... [SBVT is] a front for the Bush campaign. And the fact that the President won’t denounce what they’re up to tells you everything you need to know—he wants them to do his dirty work."

This is the most common pattern but of course there's a smorgasboard of dirty tricks coming out of the campaign.  Another example is that the Bernie campaign likes to intentionally violate the rules and antagonize the Democratic party, and then take advantage of the confusion to play the victim when there's any sort of retribution for or condemnation of their behavior.

I don't expect Sanders to ever take any responsibility for these tactics and their consequences given that he doesn't seem to have ever taken responsibility for anything ever in his life, but he owes it to the party, the country, and the world to at least make a prolonged effort to try to revitalize the fields he's destroyed with his scorched-earth tactics.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Ya know, a lot of us younguns disliked the Democratic party as it is to begin with.  

Or at least had limited illusions.


And frankly? It deserves what it gets.


Also, Mr. Steve, you're allegedly an Independent? So why do you care? Presumably you dislike the party already?

[Hermit For Peace]

For me, it would take a lot more than a mere enthusiastic endorsement to undo the last year, and particularly the last six weeks, of obscene behavior.  Bernie has intentionally systematically poisoned the attitudes of an entire generation of young people who are just getting involved in politics towards the Democratic party and made a strong effort to convince them that the party is riddled with corruption, the election is rigged against their interests, most of its politicians are lying, bought-and-paid-for establishment shills, and its nominee is... well, too many things to list really.  I want to see him make a sincere and enthusiastic effort to undo the toxic, negative effect he has had on the party and on our democratic system in general in the minds of all these impressionable kids.  You can't just burn down my house, shoot my dog, and then leave a 20 dollar bill on what's left of my porch and expect me to call it even.

Just being honest here, but I don't think Bernie did much poisoning, I think the young people already feel that the "system" is corrupt, Bernie just gave them a voice and a platform from which to vent their anger and their desire for change.

I'm hearing the same thing coming from them that I used to say when I was their age: "anti-establishment" this and "corrupt" that, it's the generational thing. Young people don't want to do it the way their parents did it, whatever "it" is.

And as for your statement: "I want to see him make a sincere and enthusiastic effort to undo the toxic, negative effect he has had on the party and on our democratic system in general in the minds of all these impressionable kids", I wouldn't hold my breath. Bernie has repeatedly said that it's not his job to tell people how to vote. That if Hillary wants their vote she will have to do the work of getting it.

I think that's a cop out, but it's what he continues to say.

[Xing]

Without going into too much detail, millennials were definitely already "anti-establishment" before Sanders started his campaign. Let's just say that the cost of tuition, housing prices, and the current job market for n00bs doesn't exactly make them think that the system favors them. Sanders at least gave a lot of young people something to believe in, even if they were overly idealistic. He brought a lot of new people, who could very well have sat this election out, into politics, and brought what could be a large addition to the Democratic coalition. No doubt, many of the people he's brought in will vote for Clinton in November. Some of them are not on board yet, and their criticisms of Hillary Clinton might not be entirely fair. Smearing Sanders and his supporters in the same unfair way that a select few of them do to Clinton, though, is counterproductive. It only pushes them further away.

Anyway, perhaps there have been times where Sanders fanned the flames, but putting this all at his feet is ludicrous. It's like blaming all of the Republican obstruction of Obama on Clinton.

[RaphaelDLG]

For me, it would take a lot more than a mere enthusiastic endorsement to undo the last year, and particularly the last six weeks, of obscene behavior.  Bernie has intentionally systematically poisoned the attitudes of an entire generation of young people who are just getting involved in politics towards the Democratic party and made a strong effort to convince them that the party is riddled with corruption, the election is rigged against their interests, most of its politicians are lying, bought-and-paid-for establishment shills, and its nominee is... well, too many things to list really.  I want to see him make a sincere and enthusiastic effort to undo the toxic, negative effect he has had on the party and on our democratic system in general in the minds of all these impressionable kids.  You can't just burn down my house, shoot my dog, and then leave a 20 dollar bill on what's left of my porch and expect me to call it even.

Just being honest here, but I don't think Bernie did much poisoning, I think the young people already feel that the "system" is corrupt, Bernie just gave them a voice and a platform from which to vent their anger and their desire for change.

I'm hearing the same thing coming from them that I used to say when I was their age: "anti-establishment" this and "corrupt" that, it's the generational thing. Young people don't want to do it the way their parents did it, whatever "it" is.

And as for your statement: "I want to see him make a sincere and enthusiastic effort to undo the toxic, negative effect he has had on the party and on our democratic system in general in the minds of all these impressionable kids", I wouldn't hold my breath. Bernie has repeatedly said that it's not his job to tell people how to vote. That if Hillary wants their vote she will have to do the work of getting it.

I think that's a cop out, but it's what he continues to say.

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9836.html


But according to you, the Democratic party are all good guys, the Republicans are all bad guys, this system isn't corrupt, and Millennials are just acting like rebellious children.  I won't say anything mean, as you seem like a good-hearted person, but your extremely patronizing and naively tribalistic perspective is part of the problem.

[Hermit For Peace]

For me, it would take a lot more than a mere enthusiastic endorsement to undo the last year, and particularly the last six weeks, of obscene behavior.  Bernie has intentionally systematically poisoned the attitudes of an entire generation of young people who are just getting involved in politics towards the Democratic party and made a strong effort to convince them that the party is riddled with corruption, the election is rigged against their interests, most of its politicians are lying, bought-and-paid-for establishment shills, and its nominee is... well, too many things to list really.  I want to see him make a sincere and enthusiastic effort to undo the toxic, negative effect he has had on the party and on our democratic system in general in the minds of all these impressionable kids.  You can't just burn down my house, shoot my dog, and then leave a 20 dollar bill on what's left of my porch and expect me to call it even.

Just being honest here, but I don't think Bernie did much poisoning, I think the young people already feel that the "system" is corrupt, Bernie just gave them a voice and a platform from which to vent their anger and their desire for change.

I'm hearing the same thing coming from them that I used to say when I was their age: "anti-establishment" this and "corrupt" that, it's the generational thing. Young people don't want to do it the way their parents did it, whatever "it" is.

And as for your statement: "I want to see him make a sincere and enthusiastic effort to undo the toxic, negative effect he has had on the party and on our democratic system in general in the minds of all these impressionable kids", I wouldn't hold my breath. Bernie has repeatedly said that it's not his job to tell people how to vote. That if Hillary wants their vote she will have to do the work of getting it.

I think that's a cop out, but it's what he continues to say.

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9836.html


But according to you, the Democratic party are all good guys, the Republicans are all bad guys, this system isn't corrupt, and Millennials are just acting like rebellious children.  I won't say anything mean, as you seem like a good-hearted person, but your extremely patronizing and naively tribalistic perspective is part of the problem.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.