Democrats, would you have voted for a Democrat version of Trump?
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  Democrats, would you have voted for a Democrat version of Trump?
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Poll
Question: Donald Trump (D) vs Jeb Bush (R)
#1
Donald Trump (D)
 
#2
Jeb Bush (R)
 
#3
Gary Johnson
 
#4
Jill Stein
 
#5
Abstain
 
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Total Voters: 93

Author Topic: Democrats, would you have voted for a Democrat version of Trump?  (Read 1311 times)
BlueSwan
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« on: June 12, 2016, 03:03:46 AM »
« edited: June 12, 2016, 03:56:05 AM by BlueSwan »

I've been trying to do some soul searching. On the one hand, I am of the opinion that anyone who cares about democracy has a moral obligation to vote against Donald Trump come november. On the other hand, I am also a partisan who cares deeply about the issues and about the constellation of the supreme court. So I had to ask myself the question, what if Donald Trump had run as a democrat and had defeated Hillary Clinton in the primaries. To make the matter more realistic let's say that this version of Trump basically had the same xenophobic, mysogynist views. He was still talking about building a wall and keeping muslims out. He was still talking about global warming being a hoax. He was still offending everybody left and right. However, instead of proposing a pretty typical republican tax plan, he proposed a tax plan that increased taxes heavily on the rich. He was in support of universal health care. He was in support of breaking up the big banks. He was in support of a $15 minimum wage.

In other words, the persona of the real Donald Trump coupled with typical left wing populist economic views like those of Bernie Sanders.

Let's also say that his opponent in the general election would be the republican equivalent of Hillary Clinton. Let's say it was Jeb Bush (or Mitt Romney or John Kasish, if you prefer, but it would have to be an "establishment" candidate, not Ted Cruz).

So it is Trump (D) against Bush (R).

Democrats only - who do you support? Would you vote for the semi-fascist demagogue to keep the republicans from power and ensure a liberal supreme court.

I have thought quite a bit about this and I readily admit that I really really hate the idea of a conservative supreme court (just like the conservatives really really hate the idea of a liberal supreme court). But I would also have to intellectually stick to my point that anyone who believes in democracy and world safety has a moral obligation to vote against Trump, be it the republican or democratic version of Trump.

Also, the "easy" option of voting for Jill Stein (or Gary Johnson) just doesn't cut it. The number one priority is to STOP Donald Trump. Voting for them doesn't stop Trump at all. I would consider it my moral responsibility to vote for Jeb Bush - brother of easily the worst US president of my lifetime (and arguably ever). I would hate every second of it, but I would do it and I would feel morally vindicated watching Trump get a beating on election night.

How about you other fellow democrats?
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Xing
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2016, 03:16:08 AM »

I could not support someone with no political experience who has absolutely no filter or self-control and says blatantly offensive and discriminatory things. I'm not sure I could get myself to vote for Jeb Bush, but I could definitely see myself voting third party. I might convince myself to vote for Bush as a vote against the Democratic Trump, knowing that there might be hope of a fortune change for the Democrats in 2018 and 2020. Even if a Democratic Trump meant saving the Supreme Court, it would come at the cost of many other things. The Democratic Party would be tarnished, possibly permanently, and 2018 and 2020 would be absolute bloodbaths.
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RaphaelDLG
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2016, 03:19:51 AM »

Not an easy question, probably TRUMP if I'm forbidden to vote third party.  He could be checked and primaried.  Jeb Bush would act like a nice guy but pass programs and appoint 20-30 year judges that would continue to destroy this country.  I think if Trump is nominated the Democratic Party is probably screwed for the long-term anyway.
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MK
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2016, 03:34:59 AM »

A slightly younger, less hunched backed Sanders without the obvious blm or gun grabbers pandering would have been basically that.  I'd be tempted.   In fact at times Sanders and Trump were pounding home the same issues. Sanders was just nice about it.

I am sure Trump weighed on which party to align himself too prior to 2011(he leaned dem early 00's) and figured his bombastic style fit better with southern republicans.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2016, 04:13:26 AM »

I'd never vote for a Bush. I think the framing is incorrect for the comparison, though. Think about all of the accusations that Sanders is "insensitive" or whatever to the constituencies that Trump has outright maligned. If Sanders couldn't win the primary, then there'd be no way in hell that Trump could win a Democratic primary with identical rhetoric on those issues.

You'd have to adjust the rhetoric to be of an equivalent, yet left-wing, caliber. Something like:

Quote
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^^^ And yes, I'd vote for this Donald in a heartbeat, especially over a Bush.
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HAnnA MArin County
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2016, 06:25:00 AM »

Donald Trump could not have won a Democratic primary given all of the racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, etc. crapola he's spouted. But, to indulge the OP with the hypotheticals, in this scenario I would pull a jfern and be #ReadyForJillStein.
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2016, 10:35:36 AM »

Easily Trump (D), in this scenario.
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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2016, 10:52:01 AM »

No idea, but candidates who want to get rid of Obamacare, whether from the Right or the Left, are pretty much non-negotiable non-starters for me.
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Tartarus Sauce
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« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2016, 01:05:17 PM »

No, I would not. The man is unhinged.
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Dr. Arch
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« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2016, 01:07:08 PM »

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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2016, 01:18:33 PM »

I would become a strong champion for Jeb Bush. Easily. But I'm not a Democrat, so it's not really a big leap.
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Mallow
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« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2016, 01:19:53 PM »

I had the same "soul searching" moment about a month ago, asking myself just how partisan I am, and I determined that if Trump were the D nominee, I would absolutely not vote for him. But, more importantly...

Donald Trump could not have won a Democratic primary given all of the racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, etc. crapola he's spouted. But, to indulge the OP with the hypotheticals, in this scenario I would pull a jfern and be #ReadyForJillStein.

... this. One of the reasons I AM a Democrat is because someone like Trump would not find the party welcoming.
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RaphaelDLG
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« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2016, 01:37:31 PM »

The reality is that trump would be cooperating with a much more progressive institution than he would if he were a republican, and he would be constrained by that institution also.

This is important for people voting for trump because of his economic populism:. Do you think Republicans in Congress would ever let Trump pass any of his anti-big business economic proposals?  Not a chance.  And the Democrats wouldn't cooperate much with him because a two party system is fundamentally zero sum where you try to screw the other party  a la Mitch McConnell.
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President Johnson
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« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2016, 01:40:08 PM »

DONALD JOHN TRUMP. He should have run as a Democrat and change a few positions.
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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2016, 01:51:11 PM »

DONALD JOHN ADOLF TRUMP. He should have run as a Democrat Republican and change a few positions.

Fixed your statement for you.
Notice that Adolf trump did actually change a few positions, and ran as a Republican.
This Nazi is a disgrace to America and to the GOP.
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President Johnson
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« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2016, 02:06:28 PM »

DONALD JOHN ADOLF TRUMP. He should have run as a Democrat Republican and change a few positions.

Fixed your statement for you.
Notice that Adolf trump did actually change a few positions, and ran as a Republican.
This Nazi is a disgrace to America and to the GOP.


Of course he's a nazi; that's why is talking about blacks and their problems on the labor market. Very racist!
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IceSpear
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« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2016, 02:40:54 PM »

Ugh, these choices are vomit inducing. I'd write in Hillary.

If absolutely forced to choose, I'd be "undecided" and see how the campaign went before deciding.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2016, 02:43:23 PM »

I'd never vote for a Bush. I think the framing is incorrect for the comparison, though. Think about all of the accusations that Sanders is "insensitive" or whatever to the constituencies that Trump has outright maligned. If Sanders couldn't win the primary, then there'd be no way in hell that Trump could win a Democratic primary with identical rhetoric on those issues.

You'd have to adjust the rhetoric to be of an equivalent, yet left-wing, caliber. Something like:

Quote
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^^^ And yes, I'd vote for this Donald in a heartbeat, especially over a Bush.

LOL! That would be a Trump I could get behind...
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anthonyjg
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« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2016, 02:46:18 PM »

a nationalist socialist mix, what could possibly go wrong?
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2016, 02:50:17 PM »

Donald Trump could not have won a Democratic primary given all of the racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, etc. crapola he's spouted. But, to indulge the OP with the hypotheticals, in this scenario I would pull a jfern and be #ReadyForJillStein.

If Trump were running in the Democratic Primary, he'd have dredged up the Clinton scandals and moved the Democrats to repudiate Clintonism in the same way he moved the GOP to repudiate Bushism.

If Trump were running in the Democratic Primary, he'd have been pro-choice, he'd have let his social liberalism be on display, and he'd have picked a female running mate already.

The problem for Trump would be that he already declared himself as a Republican in 2012, was a birther, etc.  If he hadn't done that, however, and had run as a Democrat, he'd have toned down his insults because the crowd he'd be pandering to would be less receptive to that.  (The GOP eats up Trump's insults; he does them with more panache and gusto than the half-baked hacks who've been dishing them out for so long.)
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Hammy
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« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2016, 02:52:55 PM »

I voted abstain because I can't separate what Trump as a Democrat would be from all the awful things he's said as a Republican.
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Santander
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« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2016, 02:59:51 PM »

In the primaries, I'd have voted for a Democratic Trump, and I would have been extremely pleased to see the Democratic Party returning to its Jacksonian roots.

With that being said, I respect Jeb Bush a lot and I think he was the most prepared candidate for president in recent history. He's a very decent man as well. I've made it clear that while I agree with Trump's policies, I find his personality and rhetoric appalling. Right now, Trump is making me lean R in November, but ironically, if he was actually in my party, I think I'd still lean R.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2016, 03:18:30 PM »

In the primaries, I'd have voted for a Democratic Trump, and I would have been extremely pleased to see the Democratic Party returning to its Jacksonian roots.

With that being said, I respect Jeb Bush a lot and I think he was the most prepared candidate for president in recent history. He's a very decent man as well. I've made it clear that while I agree with Trump's policies, I find his personality and rhetoric appalling. Right now, Trump is making me lean R in November, but ironically, if he was actually in my party, I think I'd still lean R.

I don't think Trump would have run as that kind of a Democrat if he'd have run as a Democrat.  I think he'd have been a neo-liberal, fiscal conservative (for a Democrat) who toed the Democratic line on social issues.

I agree with the highlighted quote.  But the hatchet job Trump did on Bush and Bushism was overdue and well-deserved.  The Bushes are the genteel folks that screw people over with plausible deniability.  The lasting positive of this campaign is that Bush Republicanism is dead and gone in the GOP, just as Grover Cleveland's philosophy died in the Democratic Party in 1896.

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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2016, 03:40:55 PM »

No, temperament matters, and Trump is utterly devoid of such.
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Vosem
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« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2016, 03:59:12 PM »

I'm no big fan of Jeb Bush but I would've voted for him easily against a somehow even worse version of Trump.
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