Mass shooting at LGBT nightclub in Orlando.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Why did I expect anything good to come from this thread?

What good could it bring?

All these shootings do is give people an excuse to politicize tragedy and demand more or less gun control.

Agreed, with a mass shooting happening every few weeks the one thing we should never do is talk about guns.

Imagine if that is what we said about seat belts or cigarettes or leaded gasoline.

Governments dissect the corpses of victims of cigarette smoking, take pictures of their organs, and use them for ad campaigns.  But in America we can't talk about guns because it would be "inappropriate".  Guns aren't religious artifacts.  I don't have to wait for them to stop killing people to discuss them.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/politics/orlando-shooting-gun-control-islamic-terrorism/

Amazing.

[Beet]

What's sad about this thing media wise is that yet again something actually affecting LGBT people now about everyone and everything else.

Same thing happens with every mass shooting... because mass shootings aren't about gay people, or little kids, or black people, or Islam.  Their frequency and magnitude are a uniquely American phenomenon that has one common and unique theme.

It can be about more than one thing at a time.

This was pretty clearly the most deadly hate crime targeted at LGBT people in our nation's history. This is a sickening event.

[IceSpear]

I do think the left needs to address the hatred of women, gays, Western values in general, etc. that is allowed to breed within fundamentalist Islam. They certainly have no problem (correctly) calling out the Christians who do the same. Plugging your ears and singing "lalala I can't hear you!" isn't going to fix the problem. And using the "who are we to judge their culture?!" excuse is even worse.

That said, obviously banning an entire religion from entering the country would be an extremely stupid solution.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

I do think the left needs to address the hatred of women, gays, Western values in general, etc. that is allowed to breed within fundamentalist Islam. They certainly have no problem (correctly) calling out the Christians who do the same. Plugging your ears and singing "lalala I can't hear you!" isn't going to fix the problem. And using the "who are we to judge their culture?!" excuse is even worse.

The right already does this enough. The American left's response with that is that it's somehow incredibly difficult to say that some extremists are bad without decrying the entire religion.

Furthermore it's important to note that much of the left is not necessarily pro-Western, particularly younger iterations.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

I do think the left needs to address the hatred of women, gays, Western values in general, etc. that is allowed to breed within fundamentalist Islam. They certainly have no problem (correctly) calling out the Christians who do the same. Plugging your ears and singing "lalala I can't hear you!" isn't going to fix the problem. And using the "who are we to judge their culture?!" excuse is even worse.

That said, obviously banning an entire religion from entering the country would be an extremely stupid solution.

White male Christians are most responsible for rape and the glass ceiling in this country.  Why would we expend what few resources we have to go after a minority group that clearly isn't the driver behind the awful statistics?  That just doesn't make any sense.  Unless you just don't like Muslims.

Most women are raped by someone they know.  With Muslims as a tiny percentage of the population they frankly just don't know enough women to be a major driver.  The probability of a nonmuslim woman picked at random getting raped by a Muslim is virtually zero in the US.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/08/us/muslims-in-america-shattering-misperception/

If we eliminated all the violent, sexist, homophobic acts perpetrated by Muslims in America... the place would still be a gigantic cease pool.  Now if we eliminated all the violent, sexist, homophobic acts perpetrated by Christians... this place would be heaven.

[IceSpear]

Well obviously white male Christians are responsible for the most rape, considering they're the second largest group in the country after white female Christians. It's a question of proportion. And I was referring more to fundamentalist Islam in general, not a specific attack on American Muslims, which I'm sure you knew already.

[Kingpoleon]

Why did I expect anything good to come from this thread?

What good could it bring?

All these shootings do is give people an excuse to politicize tragedy and demand more or less gun control.

Agreed, with a mass shooting happening every few weeks the one thing we should never do is talk about guns.

Imagine if that is what we said about seat belts or cigarettes or leaded gasoline.

Governments dissect the corpses of victims of cigarette smoking, take pictures of their organs, and use them for ad campaigns.  But in America we can't talk about guns because it would be "inappropriate".  Guns aren't religious artifacts.  I don't have to wait for them to stop killing people to discuss them.

Is that why you want us to ban both guns and cigarettes?

Also, as far as I'm aware, nobody's ever started a campaign against cigarettes because it killed about fifty people in a mass murder. Using the dead as a rally cry is morally wrong and utterly reprehensible.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/politics/orlando-shooting-gun-control-islamic-terrorism/

Amazing.

Pressler ran for Senator in 2014 as an independent and the Democratic Party pressured their own nominee to drop out and support him. Pressler endorsing Hillary King is no more surprising or relevant than Artur Jones endorsing Trumps.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Why did I expect anything good to come from this thread?

What good could it bring?

All these shootings do is give people an excuse to politicize tragedy and demand more or less gun control.

Agreed, with a mass shooting happening every few weeks the one thing we should never do is talk about guns.

Imagine if that is what we said about seat belts or cigarettes or leaded gasoline.

Governments dissect the corpses of victims of cigarette smoking, take pictures of their organs, and use them for ad campaigns.  But in America we can't talk about guns because it would be "inappropriate".  Guns aren't religious artifacts.  I don't have to wait for them to stop killing people to discuss them.

Is that why you want us to ban both guns and cigarettes?

Also, as far as I'm aware, nobody's ever started a campaign against cigarettes because it killed about fifty people in a mass murder. Using the dead as a rally cry is morally wrong and utterly reprehensible.

That's kind of the sad thing.  I never said I want to ban all guns.  I was just defending starting a conversation.  That's my point.  It's ludicrous.  People want to ban talking.

And FYI cigarettes killed way more people than guns today.  And their geographic distribution is of little relevance to me.  They are still dead... and we can still talk about what killed them without people calling for a ban on conversation.

[Kingpoleon]

To use tragedy as an attempt to push for something is bad, whether you like it or not. You won't change my mind about that.

[MaxQue]

To use tragedy as an attempt to push for something is bad, whether you like it or not. You won't change my mind about that.

So, USA should not have entered WWII after Pearl Harbour? After all, it's the result of a tragedy.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

To use tragedy as an attempt to push for something is bad, whether you like it or not. You won't change my mind about that.

There are numerous examples of parents asking for tighter gun controls on the very same day their child is gunned down.  Do you think those people are "bad"?

You are allowed to have your opinion.  I and billions of other people happen to disagree with it.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

To use tragedy as an attempt to push for something is bad, whether you like it or not. You won't change my mind about that.

So, USA should not have entered WWII after Pearl Harbour? After all, it's the result of a tragedy.

You see, entering WWII was pretty much universally supported by everyone but Janette Rankin. Supporting a weapons ban...not so much.

To use tragedy as an attempt to push for something is bad, whether you like it or not. You won't change my mind about that.

There are numerous examples of parents asking for tighter gun controls on the very same day their child is gunned down.  Do you think those people are "bad"?

You are allowed to have your opinion.  I and billions of other people happen to disagree with it.

If billions disagree, why is it that just two years after Newtown the American people elected a rabidly pro-gun Congress? There isn't a universal consensus here.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Well obviously white male Christians are responsible for the most rape, considering they're the second largest group in the country after white female Christians. It's a question of proportion. And I was referring more to fundamentalist Islam in general, not a specific attack on American Muslims, which I'm sure you knew already.

Muslims make up less than 1% of the US population and fundamentalists Muslims make up a tiny percentage of that population.

There is already a disproportionate amount of media and political attention paid to them given how little sexism and homophobia they are responsible for here in the US.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/12/orlando-shooting-suspects-father-hosted-a-political-tv-show-and-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

Suspects father is a Taliban sympathizer.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Using the dead as a rally cry is morally wrong and utterly reprehensible.

Why? Serious question.

[Green Line]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/12/orlando-shooting-suspects-father-hosted-a-political-tv-show-and-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

Suspects father is a Taliban sympathizer.

Exactly why I said he shouldnt have been allowed to immigrate here.  We're missing these people.

[Meclazine for Israel]

From someone outside the USA:

This is the gun Omar Mateen used to massacre 50 people.

An AR-15 semi-automatic rifle.



Why are you selling these semi-automatic guns to people on a terrorist watchlist?

Omar Mateen was interviewed by the FBI about friends on an ISIS training watch-list from Syria.

How is it this person owns a fire-arm at all?

That is simply not a gun that a person in Orlando needs, especially a mentally ill homophobe who sympathises with ISIS.

Information seemingly readily available from his history.

[DINGO Joe]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/12/orlando-shooting-suspects-father-hosted-a-political-tv-show-and-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

Suspects father is a Taliban sympathizer.

Exactly why I said he shouldnt have been allowed to immigrate here.  We're missing these people.

There was no Taliban when he immigrated 25 years ago.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

What basis is there for assuming that Mateen is mentally ill other than the fact that he killed fifty people? Am I missing something or is it just being deployed as a standard part of The Script?

[Meclazine for Israel]

What basis is there for assuming that Mateen is mentally ill other than the fact that he killed fifty people? Am I missing something or is it just being deployed as a standard part of The Script?

His former wife, who left him in 2011 fearing for her life, said he was a violently abusive man who wanted to be a police officer.

"He was not a stable person," she said.

"He beat me. He would just come home and start beating me up because the laundry wasn't finished or something like that."

In a separate interview with The Washington Post Ms Yusufiy, who left the suspect in 2011, said he was violently abusive.

He was a few Mb short of a Gb.

[Adam Griffin]

I do think the left needs to address the hatred of women, gays, Western values in general, etc. that is allowed to breed within fundamentalist Islam. They certainly have no problem (correctly) calling out the Christians who do the same. Plugging your ears and singing "lalala I can't hear you!" isn't going to fix the problem. And using the "who are we to judge their culture?!" excuse is even worse.

The reason it hasn't happened, in my opinion - and I do believe it would have otherwise happened by now - is that the Right...doesn't know when to just shut its fycking mouth. They spew putrid accusations about every group that is different from them, and they don't bother making distinctions between the ones in those groups who are "good" versus those who are actually bad (and when they actually do, it comes across as so transparent that it's laughable).

The Left has grown completely desensitized to any of their concerns because their boy-who-cried-wolf act labels just about any minority group in this country as some sort of civilization-ender. The Left instinctively reacts against this because it's a case of "you say these things about everybody and it's usually just bigoted ramblings justifying bad treatment for the groups you naturally despise". The Right has poisoned the well too much for the Left to embrace rational positions with regards to Western values within the Right's hemisphere, because that's how our politics work.

There'll never be consensus on issues like this as long as they're flapping their gums, and they're never gonna stop flapping their gums.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I'm asking whether or not there's reason to believe that he is mentally ill, not whether or not there's reason to believe that he was an abusive husband. 'Mentally ill' has a specific meaning, not that you'd know it from the way the concept gets thrown around in mass shooting discourse.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

From someone outside the USA:

This is the gun Omar Mateen used to massacre 50 people.

An AR-15 semi-automatic rifle.



Why are you selling these semi-automatic guns to people on a terrorist watchlist?

Omar Mateen was interviewed by the FBI about friends on an ISIS training watch-list from Syria.

How is it this person owns a fire-arm at all?

That is simply not a gun that a person in Orlando needs, especially a mentally ill homophobe who sympathises with ISIS.

Information seemingly readily available from his history.

According to CBS, these guns were purchased legally and he had a concealed-carry permit in Florida.

Seriously, how the hell is any of this possible for someone on the terror watchlist?