Mass shooting at LGBT nightclub in Orlando.

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I feel sick, and I know This won't be the end of it

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Shut the hell up about if this is right wing or left wing. Its fu***** terrorism.  

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The terror watch list weapon ban would have been unconstitutional, as good of an idea as it is.

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NBC news has reported that he pledged his allegiance to ISIS. 

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Gun control didn't stop the Paris attacks, or the brussels attacks. This was islamic terrorism, again and again and again.  Lets not pussyfoot the issue.

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I guess Obama doesn't watch the news. If he did he would know that the shooter pledged his allegiance to ISIS and had been on terror watch lists in the past. What the hell does he mean we don't know what motive, if any?  It couldn't be any more obvious.

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I guess Obama doesn't watch the news. If he did he would know that the shooter pledged his allegiance to ISIS and had been on terror watch lists in the past. What the hell does he mean we don't know what motive, if any?  It couldn't be any more obvious.

Agreed, we need a President who throws out every rumour that the news wants to put out there as red meat. We should look into the JFK assassination again.

It's not a rumor. And ok lol, radical islam is just as conspiratorial as the JFK assasination. Did you just wake up from a 15 year coma?

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We need to tackle the gun issue AND the issue of Islam. It's not an either, or situation. 

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There are some sick people. 50 people are dead and all some people are worried about is protecting guns. It's more difficult to obtain permits to open a business than it is to get a gun, so it's clear that we have a real problem that needs to be addressed.

And it doesn't matter who the shooter pledged allegiance to. It would be just as bad if he was a viewer of the 700 Club.

You don't get to claim moral outrage, sorry, buddy. Both sides of the aisle act like morons when stuff like this happens.

What is a fact is that this was terrorism inspired by islamic extremism, and that America's institutions are failing to stop attacks such as these.

Has ISIS or the like claimed responsibility for this attack yet?  I might be behind but I don't want to rummage through all the clutter in this thread.

Yes

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You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, I suppose.  Whatever, this shooting will pass, and we won't change a thing. We won't institute common sense gun control, and we won't do anything about the flow of people into this country who hate our values and want to kill us.

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You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, I suppose.  Whatever, this shooting will pass, and we won't change a thing. We won't institute common sense gun control, and we won't do anything about the flow of people into this country who hate our values and want to kill us.

Dude was an American citizen, so what does this have to do with immigration?

Importing thousands upon thousands of people with similar beliefs will surely do nothing but inflame what is going on with Muslims in the US.  It's that simple.

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What an utter tragedy.  And perhaps most tragic of all is how left and right ignore obvious facts to protect their ideology.

He was a bigoted religious fundie who shot 50 gays because he hates them for who they are.  This doesn't terrorize straight, homophobic Republicans....nor was his gun a threat to straight left wingers.

Then why is this only a problem of this magnitude in America?  Do we have the worst religious zealots?  The most Muslims?  The most homophobic people?

Time to stop the moderate hero routine and address the problem.  It's amazing how in America otherwise rational people stand up and say we absolutely cannot have an objective conversation about a giant problem staring us in the face.

Err, it's NOT only a problem of this magnitude in the United States. Look at Europe, the Middle East, Africa. Radical Muslims are killing people everywhere they live.

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You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, I suppose.  Whatever, this shooting will pass, and we won't change a thing. We won't institute common sense gun control, and we won't do anything about the flow of people into this country who hate our values and want to kill us.

Dude was an American citizen, so what does this have to do with immigration?

Importing thousands upon thousands of people with similar beliefs will surely do nothing but inflame what is going on with Muslims in the US.  It's that simple.

Preventing others from entering the country wouldn't have stopped this from happening. Seriously, you are trying to tie two issues that aren't related to each other whatsoever.

Yes, actually.  It would have stopped this from happening.

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Looks like this monster bought his guns in the last week.  Republicans killed a bill which would have stopped him from buying these guns last year.  Look at who has even more blood on there hands.

1 man has blood on his hands.

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You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, I suppose.  Whatever, this shooting will pass, and we won't change a thing. We won't institute common sense gun control, and we won't do anything about the flow of people into this country who hate our values and want to kill us.

Dude was an American citizen, so what does this have to do with immigration?

Importing thousands upon thousands of people with similar beliefs will surely do nothing but inflame what is going on with Muslims in the US.  It's that simple.

Preventing others from entering the country wouldn't have stopped this from happening. Seriously, you are trying to tie two issues that aren't related to each other whatsoever.

Yes, actually.  It would have stopped this from happening.

How, exactly?  The shooter was American.

His parents were not.

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You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, I suppose.  Whatever, this shooting will pass, and we won't change a thing. We won't institute common sense gun control, and we won't do anything about the flow of people into this country who hate our values and want to kill us.

Dude was an American citizen, so what does this have to do with immigration?

Importing thousands upon thousands of people with similar beliefs will surely do nothing but inflame what is going on with Muslims in the US.  It's that simple.

Preventing others from entering the country wouldn't have stopped this from happening. Seriously, you are trying to tie two issues that aren't related to each other whatsoever.

Yes, actually.  It would have stopped this from happening.

How, exactly?  The shooter was American.

His parents were not.

GREAT point. The refugees themselves aren't the problem; their hypothetical children are.

Yeah, radicals breed more radicals, who would have thought.  They're both a problem.

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You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, I suppose.  Whatever, this shooting will pass, and we won't change a thing. We won't institute common sense gun control, and we won't do anything about the flow of people into this country who hate our values and want to kill us.

Dude was an American citizen, so what does this have to do with immigration?

Importing thousands upon thousands of people with similar beliefs will surely do nothing but inflame what is going on with Muslims in the US.  It's that simple.

Preventing others from entering the country wouldn't have stopped this from happening. Seriously, you are trying to tie two issues that aren't related to each other whatsoever.

Yes, actually.  It would have stopped this from happening.

How, exactly?  The shooter was American.

His parents were not.

GREAT point. The refugees themselves aren't the problem; their hypothetical children are.

Yeah, radicals breed more radicals, who would have thought.  They're both a problem.

A

You seriously blaming the parents for this?

YOU said we couldn't have prevented this. The fact is his family immigrated here from Afghanistan. If they hadn't, he wouldnt be here and this shooting wouldnt have happened.  What arent you understanding?

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/12/orlando-shooting-suspects-father-hosted-a-political-tv-show-and-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

Suspects father is a Taliban sympathizer.

Exactly why I said he shouldnt have been allowed to immigrate here.  We're missing these people.

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I do think the left needs to address the hatred of women, gays, Western values in general, etc. that is allowed to breed within fundamentalist Islam. They certainly have no problem (correctly) calling out the Christians who do the same. Plugging your ears and singing "lalala I can't hear you!" isn't going to fix the problem. And using the "who are we to judge their culture?!" excuse is even worse.

The reason it hasn't happened, in my opinion - and I do believe it would have otherwise happened by now - is that the Right...doesn't know when to just shut its fycking mouth. They spew putrid accusations about every group that is different from them, and they don't bother making distinctions between the ones in those groups who are "good" versus those who are actually bad (and when they actually do, it comes across as so transparent that it's laughable).

The Left has grown completely desensitized to any of their concerns because their boy-who-cried-wolf act labels just about any minority group in this country as some sort of civilization-ender. The Left instinctively reacts against this because it's a case of "you say these things about everybody and it's usually just bigoted ramblings justifying bad treatment for the groups you naturally despise". The Right has poisoned the well too much for the Left to embrace rational positions with regards to Western values within the Right's hemisphere, because that's how our politics work.

There'll never be consensus on issues like this as long as they're flapping their gums, and they're never gonna stop flapping their gums.

So when conservatives call out radical Islam, it's their fault, even when they're correct in doing so. Maybe the problem is liberals that are so partisan that they refuse to denounce this just because conservatives did it first.

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I'm just appalled by this script that gets trotted out whenever something like this happens that if somebody does something horrible then they must be mentally ill, so clearly some sort of improvements to mental health treatment (which, granted, are necessary, just not necessarily for this reason) would have prevented it. Has the American right seriously talked itself into thinking this way? What happened to personal responsibility for one's actions? What happened to not trusting rationalized institutions like the psychiatric profession to come to all the decisions about people's lives? It's just amazing to me that those philosophical presuppositions are getting contorted to conform to the predetermined reflexively pro-gun Issues stance, rather than letting the Issues stances flow out of the philosophical presuppositions. It shouldn't surprise me but it does. It's the only thing about this whole argument that does any more.

Nobody on the American right is calling this mental illness. Theyre calling it Islamic terrorism.

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I'm just appalled by this script that gets trotted out whenever something like this happens that if somebody does something horrible then they must be mentally ill, so clearly some sort of improvements to mental health treatment (which, granted, are necessary, just not necessarily for this reason) would have prevented it. Has the American right seriously talked itself into thinking this way? What happened to personal responsibility for one's actions? What happened to not trusting rationalized institutions like the psychiatric profession to come to all the decisions about people's lives? It's just amazing to me that those philosophical presuppositions are getting contorted to conform to the predetermined reflexively pro-gun Issues stance, rather than letting the Issues stances flow out of the philosophical presuppositions. It shouldn't surprise me but it does. It's the only thing about this whole argument that does any more.

Nobody on the American right is calling this mental illness. Theyre calling it Islamic terrorism.

Yes, it's only "mental illness" to conservatives when it's non-Muslims shooting up the place.

Do you honestly think this was a case of "mental illness"?

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/12/orlando-shooting-suspects-father-hosted-a-political-tv-show-and-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

Suspects father is a Taliban sympathizer.

Exactly why I said he shouldnt have been allowed to immigrate here.  We're missing these people.

Taliban were not existing yet when they immigrated and their ancestor was CIA-backed (to fight against USSR). So, no, you are again totally missing the point.

No. He was a radical back then, and a radical now.