Mass shooting at LGBT nightclub in Orlando.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Only one reported shooter so far who is confirmed to be down, but several witnesses have claimed there were two gunmen apparently. That rumor (obviouslyunconfirmed) and the fact that there was also a controlled explosion conducted by police seem to point to the possibility that this was more than some angry bigoted nutjob.

They keep pushing back the news conference and the FBI are getting involved.

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I actually saw the first breaking reports last night on CNN but I chalked it off as being a random gangland type of shooting and fell asleep for an hour or so. When I woke up again and Afeitch posted this thread and saw that it was actually a gay bar that was attacked, it caught my attention. Frankly my gut reaction upon hearing that this was a mass casualty event was that this was some form of terrorist incident (who knows why or by who?).

Ugh. Terrorism is a sad thing to see happen in Baghdad or Brussels, and particularly horrible when it happens in places like San Bernadino, but when it happens in your own state? It's downright infuriating.

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So apparently MSNBC had a guest on who keeps insisting that this is not Islamic terror and that the victims were targeted for their "alternative and sinful" lifestyle? Is that all BS or am I missing this? I don't get MSNBC at my building so I'm left with CNN.

Any update on whether it was domestic or international terrorism?

CNN is reporting they'll at it's being treated as domestic terror, if that helps. Seems pretty inconclusive/noncommittal, though.

CNN is also reporting that the attacker had a bomb strapped on him physically. It is certainly domestic terrorism regardless if it were an Islamic or Christian radical. I don't see ISIS using one of their smuggled operatives attacking a gay bar in Orlando. I figured they go for something more symbolic.

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Shooter ID'd as Port St. Lucie resident and U.S. citizen Omar Mateen, born 1986. His parents are from Afghanistan.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CBS12/status/741980701625569280?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Yikes, that's like the most Floridian town in Florida (lots of out of state transplants, foreclosed homes from the boom, etc). That makes the fact that he (assuming this info is correct of course) apparently became radicalized quite frightening.

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Death count up to 50!

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Name is Omar Saddiqui Mateen

Why do terrorists always seem to come from places I'm connected to?

My relatives live a few towns over from Port St. Lucie where Mateen is from. The same relatives live in Vero, where a handful of 9/11 hijackers lived while learning to fly-in fact, they lived down the street from my aunt's best friend.

The 9/11 hijackers in Boynton (where I'm from) lived at a hotel down the road from my house, and went to the same gym as my High School history/theology teacher. They also tried to rent a house from my other teacher who taught Christian Leadership (they refused to deal with her, and only would speak to her husband-the deal fell through, as you can imagine). My friend Stephan and his mother lived in the same apartment complex in Delray as another group.

Lastly, a few of them lived in Venice Beach, where my great-aunt lived at the time.

Anyway, sorry for this random and boring post. It was just something that I was thinking about.

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If this is a terrorist attack by some ISIS-like group, start getting used to saying "President Donald Trump" (barfs).

Is there any evidence for that? Because last time I checked voters trusted Clinton more to handle terrorism.

Are you really this dense?

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So Lyndon, are you saying that any violence not motivated by Islam isn't terrorism? When did you become an Islamaphobe?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

So Lyndon, are you saying that any violence not motivated by Islam isn't terrorism? When did you become an Islamaphobe?

Take a hike kid.

You and I both know what this thread would look like if the shooter was some white dude named Timothy Johnson from Alabama.

Unfortunately yes. There are already Republicans out there trying to exploit the situation.

Oh and calling for gun control isn't?

The Chairman of the Intelligence Committee says that it is likely terrorism and its just like the shooting at the theatre in Paris

Not really

How not? Similar venue, similar targets (Paris=western decadence at a concert, Orlando=homosexuals), and similar perpetrators. The difference is that this was home grown, not orchestrated from Syria.

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Has it actually been confirmed that the guy is a Muslim?

Yes. It's also been reported by Congressman Adam Schiff (D-WA) that he apparently took a pledge of loyalty to the Islamic State.

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He was 29, US born, from New York and by the pictures of his home, was well off (he was married); several cars in the drive and it was noted that he may had owned other properties.

Probably got the house cheap. Fort Pierce and Port St. Lucie are the foreclosure capitals of the state.

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Terror Watch List suspects are not criminals. They haven't been convicted of a crime. They might not even have done anything to get on the list other than follow a friend on Twitter who became radicalized. Their rights should be protected like that of any other citizen until they lose those rights in a court of law.

This wasn't "just another mass shooting" and the victims were not just statistics-they were people. They had memories, friends, relatives, and lives, and this savage took that from them in the name of his evil and perverted vision of Islam. Omar Mateen did not wake up this morning to find his AR-15 sitting by the side of the bed telling him to do it. He did this, not the gun. Had he not had a gun, he'd have had probably spent more time on his explosive device, why thankfully failed in this attack. Had he not had a bomb, he could of ran down a Gay Pride parade in his car.

3,000 people died on 9/11 and not a single shot was fired by the terrorists.

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For what it's worth, I think more attackers might come out of the woodwork. The LA and Orlando incidents have no apparent connection, which is what makes this so scary. Several Lone Wolves might be out there, each unaware of the other, and their only common connection being contact with some figure in ISIS.

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You're assuming a level of organisational capacity far greater than that which any violent Islamist organisation could plausibly have. Sleeper cells? Moles? This is not the Cold War, they are not the KGB.

Nothing not that complex, nor even as complex as the 9/11 cells. Is it impossible to believe that ISIS is in communication with radicalized terrorists who are completely unaware of the others? That way, if one were to go down, they don't all go down? It wouldn't surprise me.

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Looks like this monster bought his guns in the last week.  Republicans killed a bill which would have stopped him from buying these guns last year.  Look at who has even more blood on there hands.

1 man has blood on his hands.

Jerry, I like you, but you aren't helping anyone here. Direct the anger at the man who'd kill you just for being who you are if he had the chance.

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You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/politics/orlando-shooting-gun-control-islamic-terrorism/

Amazing.

Pressler ran for Senator in 2014 as an independent and the Democratic Party pressured their own nominee to drop out and support him. Pressler endorsing Hillary King is no more surprising or relevant than Artur Jones endorsing Trumps.

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To use tragedy as an attempt to push for something is bad, whether you like it or not. You won't change my mind about that.

So, USA should not have entered WWII after Pearl Harbour? After all, it's the result of a tragedy.

You see, entering WWII was pretty much universally supported by everyone but Janette Rankin. Supporting a weapons ban...not so much.

To use tragedy as an attempt to push for something is bad, whether you like it or not. You won't change my mind about that.

There are numerous examples of parents asking for tighter gun controls on the very same day their child is gunned down.  Do you think those people are "bad"?

You are allowed to have your opinion.  I and billions of other people happen to disagree with it.

If billions disagree, why is it that just two years after Newtown the American people elected a rabidly pro-gun Congress? There isn't a universal consensus here.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/12/orlando-shooting-suspects-father-hosted-a-political-tv-show-and-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

Suspects father is a Taliban sympathizer.

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Nathan,

I understand your argument, and no he isn't legally 'mentally ill'.

I am just saying he's a few french fries short of a happy meal with room temperature IQ.

It looks as though he was not treated or prosecuted for domestic battery which would have helped to prevent this massacre.

You have to actually report a crime for it to be known.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/12/orlando-shooting-suspects-father-hosted-a-political-tv-show-and-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

Suspects father is a Taliban sympathizer.

Exactly why I said he shouldnt have been allowed to immigrate here.  We're missing these people.

To be fair, he immigrated here in 1986, which was seven years before the Taliban was active. I know that because I actually got destroyed in a debate with (I want to say BRTD? I can't remember) on the subject back in like 2011. I don't think there was cause to reject his entry at the time.

That being said, I'm still no fan of the refugee policy and I am wary of bringing in hundreds of thousands of Syrians for a myriad of reasons, but let's be honest here: there was no reason to keep Mr. Mateeb out of the US. For all we know, he and his son might have radicalized here.

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Why are you selling these semi-automatic guns to people on a terrorist watchlist?

Being on the terrorist watch list or on the No Fly list doesn't mean that one is an actual terrorist. It is not a conviction, so he hasn't lost any of his rights. In this case, the person on the terrorist watch list is actually a terrorist. That is not always the case.

Omar Mateen was interviewed by the FBI about friends on an ISIS training watch-list from Syria.

If one of my Kuwaiti neighbors (who are of course law abiding, God fearing, good decent people who'd never harm anyone) were to join ISIS hypothetically, I'd probably be investigated simply because my number is in there phone and we text back and forth from time to time. There was no reason to believe at the time that Mateeb was going to commit these acts; had the FBI had reason to believe this, it'd be because there was definitive proof linking him to ISIS. They either screwed up, or they genuinely couldn't prove anything. Either way, they had no probable cause to strip away the rights of this monster, assuming they legally could to begin with.

How is it this person owns a fire-arm at all?

As noted above, he never had any prior offenses and the fact that the FBI showed that they couldn't nab him for his various ties to radical Islam shows that they couldn't have convicted him to begin with. Making radical statements to coworkers isn't a crime. You have a right to say what you believe here. You have a right to be an ISIS sympathizer. You don't have the right to kill/harm others in the name of these disgusting beliefs.

That is simply not a gun that a person in Orlando needs, especially a mentally ill homophobe who sympathises with ISIS.

Who are you to say? If someone wants a gun here, they can get a gun. And how do we know he is mentally ill? His ex-wife? Would she be holding a press conference calling him mentally ill if he didn't kill 50 people in cold blood? He wouldn't have been prevented from buying a gun on the grounds of mental illness even if there were background checks.

His former wife, who left him in 2011 fearing for her life, said he was a violently abusive man who wanted to be a police officer.

"He was not a stable person," she said.

"He beat me. He would just come home and start beating me up because the laundry wasn't finished or something like that."

In a separate interview with The Washington Post Ms Yusufiy, who left the suspect in 2011, said he was violently abusive.

It's a shame he was never prosecuted. A misdemeanor domestic assault conviction would have kept him from buying guns regardless of whether or not he was on the no-fly list, which may not have been the case.

Agreed 100%.

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I'm just appalled by this script that gets trotted out whenever something like this happens that if somebody does something horrible then they must be mentally ill, so clearly some sort of improvements to mental health treatment (which, granted, are necessary, just not necessarily for this reason) would have prevented it. Has the American right seriously talked itself into thinking this way? What happened to personal responsibility for one's actions? What happened to not trusting rationalized institutions like the psychiatric profession to come to all the decisions about people's lives? It's just amazing to me that those philosophical presuppositions are getting contorted to conform to the predetermined reflexively pro-gun Issues stance, rather than letting the Issues stances flow out of the philosophical presuppositions. It shouldn't surprise me but it does. It's the only thing about this whole argument that does any more.

Nobody on the American right is calling this mental illness. Theyre calling it Islamic terrorism.

Yes, it's only "mental illness" to conservatives when it's non-Muslims shooting up the place.

Do you honestly think this was a case of "mental illness"?

Do you think Dylan Roof was mentally ill? If so, why is he mentally ill and this guy is not.

Dylan Roof is a domestic terrorist and should be tried as such. In fact, I'd argue that there was more cause to prevent Roof from buying a gun than Mateeb (as Wolf pretty much outright said he was going to do something in Charleston on his blog IIRC).

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I am pretty happy that the constitution is stronger than an Islamist radical and the knee-jerk reactions of teary-eyed liberals, if that counts?