Mass shooting at LGBT nightclub in Orlando.

[Adam Griffin]

Third deadliest mass shooting in American history (20), behind Virginia Tech (32) and Sandy Hook (26).

I think it'd be the fifth deadliest (non-war-related) "attack" overall (9/11, OKC, plus the two above, and then this one) if I'm not forgetting any others.

[Adam Griffin]

Third deadliest mass shooting in American history (20), behind Virginia Tech (32) and Sandy Hook (26).

[Adam Griffin]

It certainly isn't left-wing. It isn't left-wingers who are militantly anti-gay.

It's radical Islamic terrorism

He already said it was "right-wing terrorism".

[Adam Griffin]

I do think the left needs to address the hatred of women, gays, Western values in general, etc. that is allowed to breed within fundamentalist Islam. They certainly have no problem (correctly) calling out the Christians who do the same. Plugging your ears and singing "lalala I can't hear you!" isn't going to fix the problem. And using the "who are we to judge their culture?!" excuse is even worse.

The reason it hasn't happened, in my opinion - and I do believe it would have otherwise happened by now - is that the Right...doesn't know when to just shut its fycking mouth. They spew putrid accusations about every group that is different from them, and they don't bother making distinctions between the ones in those groups who are "good" versus those who are actually bad (and when they actually do, it comes across as so transparent that it's laughable).

The Left has grown completely desensitized to any of their concerns because their boy-who-cried-wolf act labels just about any minority group in this country as some sort of civilization-ender. The Left instinctively reacts against this because it's a case of "you say these things about everybody and it's usually just bigoted ramblings justifying bad treatment for the groups you naturally despise". The Right has poisoned the well too much for the Left to embrace rational positions with regards to Western values within the Right's hemisphere, because that's how our politics work.

There'll never be consensus on issues like this as long as they're flapping their gums, and they're never gonna stop flapping their gums.

[Adam Griffin]

I'm just appalled by this script that gets trotted out whenever something like this happens that if somebody does something horrible then they must be mentally ill, so clearly some sort of improvements to mental health treatment (which, granted, are necessary, just not necessarily for this reason) would have prevented it. Has the American right seriously talked itself into thinking this way? What happened to personal responsibility for one's actions? What happened to not trusting rationalized institutions like the psychiatric profession to come to all the decisions about people's lives? It's just amazing to me that those philosophical presuppositions are getting contorted to conform to the predetermined reflexively pro-gun Issues stance, rather than letting the Issues stances flow out of the philosophical presuppositions. It shouldn't surprise me but it does. It's the only thing about this whole argument that does any more.

Nobody on the American right is calling this mental illness. Theyre calling it Islamic terrorism.

Yes, it's only "mental illness" to conservatives when it's non-Muslims shooting up the place.

[Adam Griffin]

I'm just appalled by this script that gets trotted out whenever something like this happens that if somebody does something horrible then they must be mentally ill, so clearly some sort of improvements to mental health treatment (which, granted, are necessary, just not necessarily for this reason) would have prevented it. Has the American right seriously talked itself into thinking this way? What happened to personal responsibility for one's actions? What happened to not trusting rationalized institutions like the psychiatric profession to come to all the decisions about people's lives? It's just amazing to me that those philosophical presuppositions are getting contorted to conform to the predetermined reflexively pro-gun Issues stance, rather than letting the Issues stances flow out of the philosophical presuppositions. It shouldn't surprise me but it does. It's the only thing about this whole argument that does any more.

Nobody on the American right is calling this mental illness. Theyre calling it Islamic terrorism.

Yes, it's only "mental illness" to conservatives when it's non-Muslims shooting up the place.

Do you honestly think this was a case of "mental illness"?

I'm just trying to figure out at what point ideologically-motivated killings transition from perfectly-treatable "mental illness" to "terrorism". Perhaps it's at the point where the NRA doesn't feel threatened that the latest slaughter will devolve into a discussion that's actually about guns, because the profile of the shooter is advantageous for more dominant, alternative narratives and therefore serves as the perfect scapegoat? Maybe you can help?