Mass shooting at LGBT nightclub in Orlando.

[ingemann]

So Lyndon, are you saying that any violence not motivated by Islam isn't terrorism? When did you become an Islamaphobe?

Take a hike kid.

You and I both know what this thread would look like if the shooter was some white dude named Timothy Johnson from Alabama.

Unfortunately yes. There are already Republicans out there trying to exploit the situation.

The sad part are that you people are unwilling to use this situation (except for afleitch with his post about giving blood, bless his heart). This is a perfect opportunity to connect anti-LGBT element in USA with Islamic terrorism and being anti-American. But no you people have decided that it's more important to defend a bunch of homophobic assholes, than to use this opportunity to push LGBT rights as a element of western culture to be protected against medieval assholes.

[ingemann]

I think the problem isn't that people are allowed to own guns. I think the problem is that right-wing bigots are allowed to own guns.

I think the problem is you have people willing to engage in 'going postal' acts of mass murder and self-immolation. The guns just make it easier, but we've just had a guy in the UK convicted of attempted for trying it with a knife at an Underground station.

Even in countries with gun control, we see the use (illegal obtained) guns in terror act, the main difference is that the people usiong them, usual lack training and practice, which is why we usual see lower body count in those cases (compared to USA), where they decides to use guns instead of explosives. Breivik is more or less the main exception.

[ingemann]

So, I suppouse ISIS is a bunch of left-leaning liberals then?

Don't go there, this guy was a registered democrat. Instead we should accept that Islamic fundamentalism in lies outside the political spectum of non-Muslims.

[ingemann]

Adam Schiff says that law enforcement says that he pledged allegiance to ISIS

The important thing is how involved this ISIS connection is. Was it merely a crime inspired by daesh's savagery or was there an actual connection? I'm not sure I buy the narrative that he was a normal guy, saw a agay couple and immediately turned into a homicidal maniac

I think that the tale his father tell us, is likely correct from the father's perspective. In reality this guy have likely self radicalised and the reaction his father saw, was just a result of this. We often see successful solo terrorist not being very open about the depth of their views, so it's not surprising that his father hadn't discovered how radicalised his son had become.

[ingemann]

Christ, who cares about this guys political affiliation? He just killed over 50 innocent people who were just trying to enjoy a Saturday night out.

Which precisely my point, this lies outside the American political spectum, neither Republicans nor Democrats are to blame for this. This doesn't built on some American domestic debate about LGBT.

[ingemann]

http://www.latimes.com/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html


We are under attack

Are you?

Take it! It's a opportunity to sell attacks on LGBT as an attack on "Us" and our values.

[ingemann]

Let's avoid leaping to conclusions and joining dots that may very well not be there until we know more. Right now we know really very little and a lot of false rumours often spread themselves about after this kind of crime. I mean other than that this is an appalling atrocity and that clearly the man responsible did not particularly like gay men. We can be pretty sure of those things.

Maybe he was an Islamist, maybe he wasn't. If he was it doesn't mean he was necessarily a member of a larger organisation. If he was it doesn't mean it worse than if he wasn't.

It's unlikely that he was a member of a larger organisation, he fit the profile of self radicalised Islamist solo terrorists. They usual declare their allegiance to the most high profile Islamist terror organisation before they commit their act of terror. But they're unlikely to have been contact with the organisation (at most they have been in contact with non-terrorist radicals) and they select the target on their own.

[ingemann]

http://www.latimes.com/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html


We are under attack

Are you?

Take it! It's a opportunity to sell attacks on LGBT as an attack on "Us" and our values.

The reactionary right don't specifically care about the LGBT part of this crime. We don't need to be collateral in their chest beating.

The increase hostility toward Islam in Denmark have resulted in anti-homosexual comments have almost become completely unacceptable even from the unpleasant right. LGBT rights have become integrated as part of the Danish values packet. The LGBT movemet shouldn't let the reactionary right get all the points from this tragedy, they should use it to beat people like Lt. Gov. of Texas in the head with, how he sides with anti-American anti-Christian Islamic terrorists against the American values of tolerance.

[ingemann]

It's unlikely that he was a member of a larger organisation, he fit the profile of self radicalised Islamist solo terrorists. They usual declare their allegiance to the most high profile Islamist terror organisation before they commit their act of terror. But they're unlikely to have been contact with the organisation (at most they have been in contact with non-terrorist radicals) and they select the target on their own.

A similar pattern applies to far right terrorism of course (not just Brevik but also e.g. David Copeland or all the sad losers that still get arrested in every six months or so here after trying to buy explosives on the internet).

The main difference is that far-right terrorist usual don't swear allegiance to some organisation, they seem to take pride in the fact, that they're lone wolves.

[ingemann]

The main difference is that far-right terrorist usual don't swear allegiance to some organisation, they seem to take pride in the fact, that they're lone wolves.

More of an emphasis on the idea of the individual's will and so on in their propaganda I suppose.

They're also less likely to realise that trying to buy explosives over the internet is a bit stupid.

Terrorist in general fail because of their own stupidity in the planning phase, my municipality alone have had two (Islamist) terror cells, which have failed because they ordered large amount of fertiliser.

[ingemann]

Terrorist in general fail because of their own stupidity in the planning phase, my municipality alone have had two (Islamist) terror cells, which have failed because they ordered large amount of fertiliser.

There was a guy over here convicted last year; he'd been arrested after walking into a cookshop and buying the biggest scariest looking knife he could find. As he'd never been in before, obviously wasn't a professional chef and was acting as shiftily as hell, naturally the staff called the police as soon as he left the shop and he was arrested on arrival home...

Yes, it's important element in terror is talent mass, you need a relative large group having rather horrible views, a minority among them support violence to reach their goal, a minority among them being willing to use violence. At that point you have a relative small group of people unless you start with a lot of people, and when you need someone with the intelligence and necessary skills. It's why you see more (Islamist) terror in France than Germany, because fewer Turks than Arabs have the horrible views from the start. It's also why Germany have some of the most successful right-wing terrorist groups in western Europe, simply because Germany with its size have quantitive larger extreme right than most West European countries.

It's why in smaller countries or communities (like American Muslims) Lone Wolves are the most successful, while in large countries or communities (like the French-Belgian Arab community) we see cells being more successful.  

[ingemann]

The main difference is that far-right terrorist usual don't swear allegiance to some organisation, they seem to take pride in the fact, that they're lone wolves.

More of an emphasis on the idea of the individual's will and so on in their propaganda I suppose.

They're also less likely to realise that trying to buy explosives over the internet is a bit stupid.

Terrorist in general fail because of their own stupidity in the planning phase, my municipality alone have had two (Islamist) terror cells, which have failed because they ordered large amount of fertiliser.

I am sorry, I just snorted.

Yes it's a little funny, when in a Copenhagen working class suburb someone living in a apartment decides to buy several hundred kilos of fertiliser.