Does the recent gun massacre of 50+ LGBT people in Orlando, Florida...

[Fuzzy Bear]

I expect Trump to be 5 points ahead of Clinton at the end of this week's polls.

I also don't expect that to last.

[Ljube]

Some of you guys are overthinking this.

To the typical "swing voter/undecided voter", this will be: "Wow, he's a Muslim! Muslims are bad! I knew it! TRUMP 2016!"

Obviously the left is going to spin it into homophobia or guns or wanting a steady hand as commander in chief, but nobody is insinuating Trump is going to win over the left.

"Spin this into homophobia"?  

This was homophobic bigotry at the extreme, plain and simple.  

The guy pledged allegiance to ISIS prior to the shooting and had connections with a suicide bomber, so clearly it goes deeper than just homophobia.

He specifically targeted a gay nightclub. And he made statements to his father about homosexuals several months ago. While it's obviously Islamic-extremism-related, it's also obviously homophobia-related. No spin necessary, and no need to sugar-coat things.

You're preaching to the choir here. My point was the homophobia/guns is what the left will focus on, and the Muslim/Islamic terrorism side is what the right will focus on.

I'm not exactly waiting with bated breath to see which side "the undecided voters" fall on.

If I may add, not the entire left, just the irredeemable left wing partisan hacks. The people with integrity will not focus on that.

So you're suggesting people with integrity will conveniently ignore that this was clearly an act of homophobia?

Of course not, but they will not try to spin it as such, since it is pretty obvious the most important contributing factor was Islamic radicalism of the mass killer.

They will certainly not ask for weapons ban over this.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Some of you guys are overthinking this.

To the typical "swing voter/undecided voter", this will be: "Wow, he's a Muslim! Muslims are bad! I knew it! TRUMP 2016!"

Obviously the left is going to spin it into homophobia or guns or wanting a steady hand as commander in chief, but nobody is insinuating Trump is going to win over the left.

"Spin this into homophobia"?  

This was homophobic bigotry at the extreme, plain and simple.  

The guy pledged allegiance to ISIS prior to the shooting and had connections with a suicide bomber, so clearly it goes deeper than just homophobia.

He specifically targeted a gay nightclub. And he made statements to his father about homosexuals several months ago. While it's obviously Islamic-extremism-related, it's also obviously homophobia-related. No spin necessary, and no need to sugar-coat things.

You're preaching to the choir here. My point was the homophobia/guns is what the left will focus on, and the Muslim/Islamic terrorism side is what the right will focus on.

I'm not exactly waiting with bated breath to see which side "the undecided voters" fall on.

If I may add, not the entire left, just the irredeemable left wing partisan hacks. The people with integrity will not focus on that.

So you're suggesting people with integrity will conveniently ignore that this was clearly an act of homophobia?

Of course not, but they will not try to spin it as such, since it is pretty obvious the most important contributing factor was Islamic radicalism of the mass killer.

They will certainly not ask for weapons ban over this.

That's not obvious at all.

[Mallow]

Of course not, but they will not try to spin it as such, since it is pretty obvious the most important contributing factor was Islamic radicalism of the mass killer.

They will certainly not ask for weapons ban over this.

Your definitions of "pretty obvious" and "integrity" both clearly differ from my own.

[Seriously?]

Yeah, because more gun laws would have done anything to fix this. Until today, the guy was allegedly in good standing and had a permit to carry as a security guard. G4S security is a British company that also has a contract to move illegal aliens when they are caught at the border to their final resettlement places awaiting trial, etc.

I am not sure what this lovely person was doing for them, but he had been interviewed by the FBI on at least three occasions.

Sourcing: Palm Beach Post.

http://m.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/local/fort-pierce-apartment-building-evacuated-has-ties-/nrfFf/

2:12 P.M. Palm Beach County Sheriff Ric Bradshaw confirms earlier reports that Orlando shooter held valid firearm permit.

1:56 P.M. The global security firm G4S, with offices in Jupiter, has confirmed that Orlando shooter Omar Mateen has worked for the company since 2007. Statement from G4S:
“We are shocked and saddened by the tragic event that occurred at the Orlando nightclub. We can confirm that Omar Mateen had been employed with G4S since September 10, 2007. We are cooperating fully with all law enforcement authorities, including the FBI, as they conduct their investigation. Our thoughts and prayers are with all of the friends, families and people affected by this unspeakable tragedy.”

Related: More about G4S

1:28 p.m.: State records show a man named Omar Mateen is licensed as a security guard and also holds a firearms license. G4S, a global security firm with an office in Jupiter, listed an employee named Omar Mateen in a newsletter posted online. The company has not responded to requests to confirm whether its employee is the Orlando shooter.

The Republicans recently rejected a proposed law that would ban anyone on a suspected terrorist list from purchasing firearms. This man was on such a list. So, yes, absolutely, "more gun laws would have done [something] to fix this."

Try again. Your narrative fails. I am pretty sure if he were on a watch list, his job with a company that holds a Federal contract would be in jeopardy. He was questioned twice by the FBI, but the claims of ties to radical jihadists were considered to be unsubstantiated.

"Despite being on the FBI's radar, Manteen, who worked as a security guard, was not on an official terrorism watch list and was able to legally hold a state firearms licence, according to Florida records."

Sourcing: BBC
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36513468

[Landslide Lyndon]

I expect Trump to be 5 points ahead of Clinton at the end of this week's polls.

[Mallow]

Yeah, because more gun laws would have done anything to fix this. Until today, the guy was allegedly in good standing and had a permit to carry as a security guard. G4S security is a British company that also has a contract to move illegal aliens when they are caught at the border to their final resettlement places awaiting trial, etc.

I am not sure what this lovely person was doing for them, but he had been interviewed by the FBI on at least three occasions.

Sourcing: Palm Beach Post.

http://m.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/local/fort-pierce-apartment-building-evacuated-has-ties-/nrfFf/

2:12 P.M. Palm Beach County Sheriff Ric Bradshaw confirms earlier reports that Orlando shooter held valid firearm permit.

1:56 P.M. The global security firm G4S, with offices in Jupiter, has confirmed that Orlando shooter Omar Mateen has worked for the company since 2007. Statement from G4S:
“We are shocked and saddened by the tragic event that occurred at the Orlando nightclub. We can confirm that Omar Mateen had been employed with G4S since September 10, 2007. We are cooperating fully with all law enforcement authorities, including the FBI, as they conduct their investigation. Our thoughts and prayers are with all of the friends, families and people affected by this unspeakable tragedy.”

Related: More about G4S

1:28 p.m.: State records show a man named Omar Mateen is licensed as a security guard and also holds a firearms license. G4S, a global security firm with an office in Jupiter, listed an employee named Omar Mateen in a newsletter posted online. The company has not responded to requests to confirm whether its employee is the Orlando shooter.

The Republicans recently rejected a proposed law that would ban anyone on a suspected terrorist list from purchasing firearms. This man was on such a list. So, yes, absolutely, "more gun laws would have done [something] to fix this."

Try again. Your narrative fails. I am pretty sure if he were on a watch list, his job with a company that holds a Federal contract would be in jeopardy. He was questioned twice by the FBI, but the claims of ties to radical jihadists were considered to be unsubstantiated.

"Despite being on the FBI's radar, Manteen, who worked as a security guard, was not on an official terrorism watch list and was able to legally hold a state firearms licence, according to Florida records."

Sourcing: BBC
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36513468

I had deleted my post well before you responded, because my facts weren't 100% accurate.

[Hammy]

I expect Trump to be 5 points ahead of Clinton at the end of this week's polls.

It's honestly entirely possible, you could have something like a couple of 43-39 polls come out until the media beats this to death and people become sick of hearing about it and move on.

[Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it.]

Hillary's odds on predict it and betfair predicts are unchanged. This will not have an affect.

[kyc0705]

Trump seems poised to shout his way through this; people have gotten used to his sound and fury, and they either buy it or don't. No new converts or departures. It will have no discernible effect in the long run.

[Fargobison]

No impact long term, perhaps a small bounce but with that said maybe none considering how poorly Trump has handled his response.

[anthonyjg]

No impact long term, perhaps a small bounce but with that said maybe none considering how poorly Trump has handled his response.

I agree, he's got to stop tweeting

[DINGO Joe]

No impact long term, perhaps a small bounce but with that said maybe none considering how poorly Trump has handled his response.

I agree, he's got to stop tweeting

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[chrisras]

It will help Trump because he is perceived as being tougher on Radical Islam.  I don't think the call for Gun Control will work because the Jihadist passed all the background checks that the gun control groups call for.

[RaphaelDLG]

If Democrats are smart, they will keep bringing up the guy that was apprehended going to shoot up LA's gay pride parade today as a coda every time they talk about the orlando incident.

[swf541]

After Trumps response, Clinton

[Meclazine for Israel]

Some of you guys are overthinking this.

To the typical "swing voter/undecided voter", this will be: "Wow, he's a Muslim! Muslims are bad! I knew it! TRUMP 2016!"

Obviously the left is going to spin it into homophobia or guns or wanting a steady hand as commander in chief, but nobody is insinuating Trump is going to win over the left.

I hope Ice is male...

But as Ljube and President Johnson said, the ISIS link now makes it a deliberate terrorist attack on home soil which will advantage Trump.

And to straighten out a page of crap against Trump, these were the Tweets:





That is a very normal response from both candidates.

Trump will spin it further, and given his previous policy statements, so he should.

But probably not within 72 hours. Other people will undoubtedly say it for him. This is the fearful attack he was warning against.

And as Hagrid also said, this will prelude more attacks as the election gets closer.

Undoubtedly.

Being a registered democrat is totally irrelevant.

When you are mentally ill and following ISIS, your political party is not significant.

[NOVA Green]

Honestly, I find not only the thread title/poll extremely disturbing, considering this is the largest act of Domestic Terrorism since Oklahoma City, and the the most massive Hate Crime committed in a single day, but also shocked on how so many on this forum are jumping in right off the bat to "discuss" how this will all play out in the Presidential Election.

Right now, families are on death watch and taking turns in the emergency room hoping that their loved ones will survive to see another day, which from personal experience is a process that could take months,  and all some people want to talk about is will it help/hurt Trump/Clinton.... Yes political decisions and policies have consequences, yes this is major event in the history of America and the intersections of guns/LGBT/ISIS/Immigration have a bunch of people riled up over some traditional hot-button domestic political items.

Ultimately once again we have a crazy American nutjob that decides to go out in a blaze of glory and commit mass murder because he was mentally unstable and decided to target a minority population that he despised, because his own life had become a failure, and it is extremely easy to buy an AR-15 within a few days in Florida.

Instead of a thread about how will this impact the 2016 elections, maybe there should be a thread about how this despicable massacre impacts us personally as individuals and Americans, and what measures can be taken to reduce similar incidents of mass Hate Crimes/ Domestic Terrorism.

When I see discussions like this about how a horrific mass-murder will impact presidential elections one way or another, it really is extremely distasteful at this time, and frankly sounds like the total stereotype of a partisan political operative living inside the Beltway and not Main Street America.

At least give it a few weeks before turning this horrific tragedy into a partisan political issue.

[Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it.]

Honestly, I find not only the thread title/poll extremely disturbing, considering this is the largest act of Domestic Terrorism since Oklahoma City, and the the most massive Hate Crime committed in a single day, but also shocked on how so many on this forum are jumping in right off the bat to "discuss" how this will all play out in the Presidential Election.

Right now, families are on death watch and taking turns in the emergency room hoping that their loved ones will survive to see another day, which from personal experience is a process that could take months,  and all some people want to talk about is will it help/hurt Trump/Clinton.... Yes political decisions and policies have consequences, yes this is major event in the history of America and the intersections of guns/LGBT/ISIS/Immigration have a bunch of people riled up over some traditional hot-button domestic political items.

Ultimately once again we have a crazy American nutjob that decides to go out in a blaze of glory and commit mass murder because he was mentally unstable and decided to target a minority population that he despised, because his own life had become a failure, and it is extremely easy to buy an AR-15 within a few days in Florida.

Instead of a thread about how will this impact the 2016 elections, maybe there should be a thread about how this despicable massacre impacts us personally as individuals and Americans, and what measures can be taken to reduce similar incidents of mass Hate Crimes/ Domestic Terrorism.

When I see discussions like this about how a horrific mass-murder will impact presidential elections one way or another, it really is extremely distasteful at this time, and frankly sounds like the total stereotype of a partisan political operative living inside the Beltway and not Main Street America.

At least give it a few weeks before turning this horrific tragedy into a partisan political issue.

1000000000000+

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

It's DISGUSTING that the victims here plus the Muslim community will be used as political capital by both Trump and Clinton. With TRUMP we're going to get another tirade about how "we must all be banned" "how we all secretly support Omar Mateen" "how we can't be sure Muslims aren't plotting against us".

[Fuzzy Bear]

It's DISGUSTING that the victims here plus the Muslim community will be used as political capital by both Trump and Clinton. With TRUMP we're going to get another tirade about how "we must all be banned" "how we all secretly support Omar Mateen" "how we can't be sure Muslims aren't plotting against us".

IMO, we don't need more immigration, period.  We have enough Americans to fill our job market.  That might be a remedy to so many Americans leaving the job market, and to employers discriminating against job applicants merely because they've been out of the workforce for a long period of time.

Emigrating to America is not a RIGHT.  It's something WE allow, based on what is in OUR national interest.  It's not xenophobia to point out that those who encourage easy immigration are folks who want to manipulate the demography of America to the point where the Democrats have a hammerlock on the White House and the Congress.  I don't care about that one way or another, but I do care about the principle of sovereignty and the aspect of it that states that a nation has every right to control its own borders.

[Santander]

This event has blown the lid off the political conversation among my friends/family, on FB and elsewhere. Even liberals I know are in open rebellion against Obama for refusing to name the enemy. Despite my politics, most of my friends are white, Catholic or mainline Protestant MBAs and lawyers. These were supposed to be the sane, #NeverTrump people who'll be part of Clinton's winning coalition in November, but a huge number of them are at least reconsidering their support of Clinton because of her association with Obama. This is the Obama generation that voted for him in '08 who are rejecting him and literally echoing Rudy Giuliani's "Obama doesn't love America like you and I do" line. They said this kind of thing would help Trump, but based on the small slice of America that I see, the impact is even bigger than I thought it would be.

[Boston Bread]

This event has blown the lid off the political conversation among my friends/family, on FB and elsewhere. Even liberals I know are in open rebellion against Obama for refusing to name the enemy. Despite my politics, most of my friends are white, Catholic or mainline Protestant MBAs and lawyers. These were supposed to be the sane, #NeverTrump people who'll be part of Clinton's winning coalition in November, but a huge number of them are at least reconsidering their support of Clinton because of her association with Obama. This is the Obama generation that voted for him in '08 who are rejecting him and literally echoing Rudy Giuliani's "Obama doesn't love America like you and I do" line. They said this kind of thing would help Trump, but based on the small slice of America that I see, the impact is even bigger than I thought it would be.

Huh? Obama's approval rating is the highest in years. It's solidly over 50%. I admit that this is more due to GOP attacks shifting away from Obama than anything he did recently, though.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

It's DISGUSTING that the victims here plus the Muslim community will be used as political capital by both Trump and Clinton. With TRUMP we're going to get another tirade about how "we must all be banned" "how we all secretly support Omar Mateen" "how we can't be sure Muslims aren't plotting against us".

IMO, we don't need more immigration, period.  We have enough Americans to fill our job market.  That might be a remedy to so many Americans leaving the job market, and to employers discriminating against job applicants merely because they've been out of the workforce for a long period of time.

Emigrating to America is not a RIGHT.  It's something WE allow, based on what is in OUR national interest.  It's not xenophobia to point out that those who encourage easy immigration are folks who want to manipulate the demography of America to the point where the Democrats have a hammerlock on the White House and the Congress.  I don't care about that one way or another, but I do care about the principle of sovereignty and the aspect of it that states that a nation has every right to control its own borders.

That's all fine and dandy, but don't sit there and demonize one community because the actions of a minority. We don't blame the entirety of white people for the mass shootings committed once every 2-3 days in the country, I could blame white people for killing my brethren in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Syria, or the Jews in Israel for my family's exile from their ancestral homeland in Palestine, but I don't.

Trump acts like Omar Mateen was an Afghan immigrant, when he wasn't, he was born here, he abused his ex-wive, had mental issues and got triggered when he saw two gay men kissing in Miami. He probably turned to Da'esh as a result of that cause "muh anti-gay stance".

And who cares about demographics? The only ones complaining about that are white rednecks and/or conservatives who don't want too many of us "brown skinned" folks walking around. BTW, we're ONLY Democrats for the most part because of the GOP's stances that actively harm or negatively affect the African American, Arab, Muslim and Hispanic communities. Deal with your own in-house problems first before worrying about us "scary minorities".

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Expected turnout is 66% and gays vote 70% for Hillary, but since this is Trump, and these gays are Hispanic, they will vote 641% for Hillary plus the gunman was a Democrat and since Florida is the state that the election hinges on, .66*6.41*50+gunman=213 votes lost, which does help Trump, but it is less than Bush's margin so the odds of these voters swinging the election has to be no more than 2.5%. /asperger'd

When will people learn there is a time for things?