Should Omar Mateen have been legally allowed to buy a gun on June 10, 2016?

[Green Line]

No, but not because of the point you're trying to make.  Him being on a "watch list" is not cause to deprive him of his second amendment rights.  Someone on the watch list has not necessarily committed a crime, and therefore it is unconstitutional to bar them from purchasing a firearm.

[Green Line]

No, but not because of the point you're trying to make. Him being on a "watch list" is not cause to deprive him of his second amendment rights.  Someone on the watch list has not necessarily committed a crime, and therefore it is unconstitutional to bar them from purchasing a firearm.

Man....you people are willing to sacrifice anything for your guns.

I think we should repeal the second amendment (and I've been very consistent on that)... So no. But until then, he can't be deprived of his rights.

[Green Line]

As I stated in another thread, I sure do wish "pro-life" Republicans would work as hard at preventing men from getting guns as they do at preventing women from getting abortions.

I love how the party of Jesus so adamantly defends their "God-given right" to have a gun, but any attempt at curtailing gun violence is "TYRANNY!"

And I sure wish the party that espouses the values of Liberalism and tolerance would be more willing to stand up to the regressive and violent religion that has claimed the lives tens of thousands of Americans since 9/11 and apply to them the same scrutiny that they do to Christianity, but I guess neither party is perfect.

[Green Line]

As I stated in another thread, I sure do wish "pro-life" Republicans would work as hard at preventing men from getting guns as they do at preventing women from getting abortions.

I love how the party of Jesus so adamantly defends their "God-given right" to have a gun, but any attempt at curtailing gun violence is "TYRANNY!"

And I sure wish the party that espouses the values of Liberalism and tolerance would be more willing to stand up to the regressive and violent religion that has claimed the lives tens of thousands of Americans since 9/11 and apply to them the same scrutiny that they do to Christianity, but I guess neither party is perfect.

This guy was born in the US. No Trumpist anti-Muslim immigration policy would have kept him out.

The FBI had investigated him and found sketchy things but nothing definitive.

The only way you could have prevented this from happening is with stricter gun laws.

And please don't tell me that the people in that club should have had guns too, because then you'd just have a bunch of people shooting at each other in a dark, crowded, smoky nightclub.

It's not just what happened last night. It's the last 8 years of looking the other way, of burying heads in the sand, and of refusing to condemn these people whose warped idealogy has led to the deaths of so many.  I think that could have made a difference.

[Green Line]

As I stated in another thread, I sure do wish "pro-life" Republicans would work as hard at preventing men from getting guns as they do at preventing women from getting abortions.

I love how the party of Jesus so adamantly defends their "God-given right" to have a gun, but any attempt at curtailing gun violence is "TYRANNY!"

And I sure wish the party that espouses the values of Liberalism and tolerance would be more willing to stand up to the regressive and violent religion that has claimed the lives tens of thousands of Americans since 9/11 and apply to them the same scrutiny that they do to Christianity, but I guess neither party is perfect.

This guy was born in the US. No Trumpist anti-Muslim immigration policy would have kept him out.

The FBI had investigated him and found sketchy things but nothing definitive.

The only way you could have prevented this from happening is with stricter gun laws.

And please don't tell me that the people in that club should have had guns too, because then you'd just have a bunch of people shooting at each other in a dark, crowded, smoky nightclub.

Thank you, IndyTexas. I'm sure Brown Line was saying the same thing about how evil Christianity is when Oklahoma City occurred.

Yes, Republican logic: This tragedy could have been prevented had we armed all the people in the nightclub. More guns is always the answer to stop violence! Newtown could have been prevented had we armed the teachers and students! Aurora could have been prevented had everyone brought guns with them to the theater! Then again, victim blaming is what Republicans do best.  

P.S. Brown Line, I'll have you know that I do apply the same scrutiny to Islam as I do with Christianity. I'm a self-professed agnostic and I believe that all religions are inherently evil because I believe that mankind invented religion as a means of mind control and oppression. What really bothers me is people like you who always bring up the "whatabouttery" when it comes to Islam vs. Christianity. I hear it all the time: Islam is worse for gays because at least Christians don't hang gay people in public, i.e. Christianity hates gays, but Islam hates them more! Give me a freaking break.

Christianity hating gays (and most American Christians do not "hate" them, and certainly dont wish them dead) is not the same as Muslims literally killing them for being gay, which is quite common. So if that's you applying equal scrutiny, you're not doing a good job.

[Green Line]

As I stated in another thread, I sure do wish "pro-life" Republicans would work as hard at preventing men from getting guns as they do at preventing women from getting abortions.

I love how the party of Jesus so adamantly defends their "God-given right" to have a gun, but any attempt at curtailing gun violence is "TYRANNY!"

And I sure wish the party that espouses the values of Liberalism and tolerance would be more willing to stand up to the regressive and violent religion that has claimed the lives tens of thousands of Americans since 9/11 and apply to them the same scrutiny that they do to Christianity, but I guess neither party is perfect.

This guy was born in the US. No Trumpist anti-Muslim immigration policy would have kept him out.

The FBI had investigated him and found sketchy things but nothing definitive.

The only way you could have prevented this from happening is with stricter gun laws.

And please don't tell me that the people in that club should have had guns too, because then you'd just have a bunch of people shooting at each other in a dark, crowded, smoky nightclub.

It's not just what happened last night. It's the last 8 years of looking the other way, of burying heads in the sand, and of refusing to condemn these people whose warped idealogy has led to the deaths of so many.  I think that could have made a difference.

So had this been a young white man from rural Indiana who went into a gay nightclub and killed 50 people because "Jesus doesn't like the queers," you'd be saying the same thing about Christianity, right?

Since that would be very out of character for an American Christian, I would certainly be surprised.  Rest assured though, I would condemn radical Christianity if it resulted in the deaths of 50 + gays (of which I am one).  Your hypothetical is just that, however, since it doesnt happen, and that is precisely my point.

[Green Line]

As I stated in another thread, I sure do wish "pro-life" Republicans would work as hard at preventing men from getting guns as they do at preventing women from getting abortions.

I love how the party of Jesus so adamantly defends their "God-given right" to have a gun, but any attempt at curtailing gun violence is "TYRANNY!"

And I sure wish the party that espouses the values of Liberalism and tolerance would be more willing to stand up to the regressive and violent religion that has claimed the lives tens of thousands of Americans since 9/11 and apply to them the same scrutiny that they do to Christianity, but I guess neither party is perfect.

This guy was born in the US. No Trumpist anti-Muslim immigration policy would have kept him out.

The FBI had investigated him and found sketchy things but nothing definitive.

The only way you could have prevented this from happening is with stricter gun laws.

And please don't tell me that the people in that club should have had guns too, because then you'd just have a bunch of people shooting at each other in a dark, crowded, smoky nightclub.

It's not just what happened last night. It's the last 8 years of looking the other way, of burying heads in the sand, and of refusing to condemn these people whose warped idealogy has led to the deaths of so many.  I think that could have made a difference.

So had this been a young white man from rural Indiana who went into a gay nightclub and killed 50 people because "Jesus doesn't like the queers," you'd be saying the same thing about Christianity, right?

Since that would be very out of character for an American Christian, I would certainly be surprised.  Rest assured though, I would condemn radical Christianity if it resulted in the deaths of 50 + gays (of which I am one).  Your hypothetical is just that, however, since it doesnt happen, and that is precisely my point.

It's also out of character for an American Muslim.

Considering the number of potentially radicalized Muslims we know the FBI keeps tabs on (in the thousands) compared to the relatively small number of Muslims in the country, it's not really that out of character, especially when compared to every other religion in the country.

You're proving my point. Stop trying to tell us that Muslims are just as peaceful and harmless as the rest of us. The facts prove this to be false over and over again.  It's not doing anyone a favor.

[Green Line]

As I stated in another thread, I sure do wish "pro-life" Republicans would work as hard at preventing men from getting guns as they do at preventing women from getting abortions.

I love how the party of Jesus so adamantly defends their "God-given right" to have a gun, but any attempt at curtailing gun violence is "TYRANNY!"

And I sure wish the party that espouses the values of Liberalism and tolerance would be more willing to stand up to the regressive and violent religion that has claimed the lives tens of thousands of Americans since 9/11 and apply to them the same scrutiny that they do to Christianity, but I guess neither party is perfect.

This guy was born in the US. No Trumpist anti-Muslim immigration policy would have kept him out.

The FBI had investigated him and found sketchy things but nothing definitive.

The only way you could have prevented this from happening is with stricter gun laws.

And please don't tell me that the people in that club should have had guns too, because then you'd just have a bunch of people shooting at each other in a dark, crowded, smoky nightclub.

It's not just what happened last night. It's the last 8 years of looking the other way, of burying heads in the sand, and of refusing to condemn these people whose warped idealogy has led to the deaths of so many.  I think that could have made a difference.

So had this been a young white man from rural Indiana who went into a gay nightclub and killed 50 people because "Jesus doesn't like the queers," you'd be saying the same thing about Christianity, right?

Since that would be very out of character for an American Christian, I would certainly be surprised.  Rest assured though, I would condemn radical Christianity if it resulted in the deaths of 50 + gays (of which I am one).  Your hypothetical is just that, however, since it doesnt happen, and that is precisely my point.

It's also out of character for an American Muslim.

Considering the number of potentially radicalized Muslims we know the FBI keeps tabs on (in the thousands) compared to the relatively small number of Muslims in the country, it's not really that out of character, especially when compared to every other religion in the country.

You're proving my point. Stop trying to tell us that Muslims are just as peaceful and harmless as the rest of us. The facts prove this to be false over and over again.  It's not doing anyone a favor.

I'm curious about your response to multiple American evangelical pastors pushing the Kill the Gays bill in Uganda.

Completely awful, of course. However, they arent passing any laws themselves, and they're not killing anyone.  Pushing for horrible laws is not equivalent.  Its foolish to conflate what a handful of American pastors do in Christian Africa to the slaughter of LGBT and other minorities that is happening at the hands of Muslims around the world. In fact, a gay man would still be better off in Africa than he would be in the middle east.  Deflecting and going "hey! Heres a Christian who did something bad" is not doing anything to rid the world of radical Islam, it only covers for it.

[Green Line]

I read a quote that really struck me.  Imagine if President Obama went on tv to address the nation today in the aftermath of a KKK attack on a black church, but made no mention of racism.  Would you not all rightly lambast him?  Call him a coward?  You would.

[Green Line]

As I stated in another thread, I sure do wish "pro-life" Republicans would work as hard at preventing men from getting guns as they do at preventing women from getting abortions.

I love how the party of Jesus so adamantly defends their "God-given right" to have a gun, but any attempt at curtailing gun violence is "TYRANNY!"

And I sure wish the party that espouses the values of Liberalism and tolerance would be more willing to stand up to the regressive and violent religion that has claimed the lives tens of thousands of Americans since 9/11 and apply to them the same scrutiny that they do to Christianity, but I guess neither party is perfect.

This guy was born in the US. No Trumpist anti-Muslim immigration policy would have kept him out.

The FBI had investigated him and found sketchy things but nothing definitive.

The only way you could have prevented this from happening is with stricter gun laws.

And please don't tell me that the people in that club should have had guns too, because then you'd just have a bunch of people shooting at each other in a dark, crowded, smoky nightclub.

It's not just what happened last night. It's the last 8 years of looking the other way, of burying heads in the sand, and of refusing to condemn these people whose warped idealogy has led to the deaths of so many.  I think that could have made a difference.

So had this been a young white man from rural Indiana who went into a gay nightclub and killed 50 people because "Jesus doesn't like the queers," you'd be saying the same thing about Christianity, right?

Since that would be very out of character for an American Christian, I would certainly be surprised.  Rest assured though, I would condemn radical Christianity if it resulted in the deaths of 50 + gays (of which I am one).  Your hypothetical is just that, however, since it doesnt happen, and that is precisely my point.

It's also out of character for an American Muslim.

Considering the number of potentially radicalized Muslims we know the FBI keeps tabs on (in the thousands) compared to the relatively small number of Muslims in the country, it's not really that out of character, especially when compared to every other religion in the country.

You're proving my point. Stop trying to tell us that Muslims are just as peaceful and harmless as the rest of us. The facts prove this to be false over and over again.  It's not doing anyone a favor.

Considering the predominance of blacks who commit crimes and are under law enforcement surveillance , we should also stop trying to convince you blacks are peaceful like the rest of us, amarite?

Just go there. Though it's refreshing to see an unrepentant bigot at least be up front enough to publicly vomit the sludge in their dark little heart rather than even try to pretend otherwise. Kudos sir, kudos.

Blacks are a race.  Islam is an idealogy.  Did you forget?

[Green Line]

As I stated in another thread, I sure do wish "pro-life" Republicans would work as hard at preventing men from getting guns as they do at preventing women from getting abortions.

I love how the party of Jesus so adamantly defends their "God-given right" to have a gun, but any attempt at curtailing gun violence is "TYRANNY!"

And I sure wish the party that espouses the values of Liberalism and tolerance would be more willing to stand up to the regressive and violent religion that has claimed the lives tens of thousands of Americans since 9/11 and apply to them the same scrutiny that they do to Christianity, but I guess neither party is perfect.

This guy was born in the US. No Trumpist anti-Muslim immigration policy would have kept him out.

The FBI had investigated him and found sketchy things but nothing definitive.

The only way you could have prevented this from happening is with stricter gun laws.

And please don't tell me that the people in that club should have had guns too, because then you'd just have a bunch of people shooting at each other in a dark, crowded, smoky nightclub.

It's not just what happened last night. It's the last 8 years of looking the other way, of burying heads in the sand, and of refusing to condemn these people whose warped idealogy has led to the deaths of so many.  I think that could have made a difference.

So had this been a young white man from rural Indiana who went into a gay nightclub and killed 50 people because "Jesus doesn't like the queers," you'd be saying the same thing about Christianity, right?

Since that would be very out of character for an American Christian, I would certainly be surprised.  Rest assured though, I would condemn radical Christianity if it resulted in the deaths of 50 + gays (of which I am one).  Your hypothetical is just that, however, since it doesnt happen, and that is precisely my point.

It's also out of character for an American Muslim.

Considering the number of potentially radicalized Muslims we know the FBI keeps tabs on (in the thousands) compared to the relatively small number of Muslims in the country, it's not really that out of character, especially when compared to every other religion in the country.

You're proving my point. Stop trying to tell us that Muslims are just as peaceful and harmless as the rest of us. The facts prove this to be false over and over again.  It's not doing anyone a favor.

Considering the predominance of blacks who commit crimes and are under law enforcement surveillance , we should also stop trying to convince you blacks are peaceful like the rest of us, amarite?

Just go there. Though it's refreshing to see an unrepentant bigot at least be up front enough to publicly vomit the sludge in their dark little heart rather than even try to pretend otherwise. Kudos sir, kudos.

Blacks are a race.  Islam is an idealogy.  Did you forget?

Silly little man. Isn't it "black culture" that leads to these problems? and isn't that as much a set of values and beliefs as Islam?

Your move, bigot.

Nah, not going to waste my time with your personal attacks.  Carry on.

[Green Line]

As I stated in another thread, I sure do wish "pro-life" Republicans would work as hard at preventing men from getting guns as they do at preventing women from getting abortions.

I love how the party of Jesus so adamantly defends their "God-given right" to have a gun, but any attempt at curtailing gun violence is "TYRANNY!"

And I sure wish the party that espouses the values of Liberalism and tolerance would be more willing to stand up to the regressive and violent religion that has claimed the lives tens of thousands of Americans since 9/11 and apply to them the same scrutiny that they do to Christianity, but I guess neither party is perfect.

This guy was born in the US. No Trumpist anti-Muslim immigration policy would have kept him out.

The FBI had investigated him and found sketchy things but nothing definitive.

The only way you could have prevented this from happening is with stricter gun laws.

And please don't tell me that the people in that club should have had guns too, because then you'd just have a bunch of people shooting at each other in a dark, crowded, smoky nightclub.

It's not just what happened last night. It's the last 8 years of looking the other way, of burying heads in the sand, and of refusing to condemn these people whose warped idealogy has led to the deaths of so many.  I think that could have made a difference.

So had this been a young white man from rural Indiana who went into a gay nightclub and killed 50 people because "Jesus doesn't like the queers," you'd be saying the same thing about Christianity, right?

Since that would be very out of character for an American Christian, I would certainly be surprised.  Rest assured though, I would condemn radical Christianity if it resulted in the deaths of 50 + gays (of which I am one).  Your hypothetical is just that, however, since it doesnt happen, and that is precisely my point.

It's also out of character for an American Muslim.

Considering the number of potentially radicalized Muslims we know the FBI keeps tabs on (in the thousands) compared to the relatively small number of Muslims in the country, it's not really that out of character, especially when compared to every other religion in the country.

You're proving my point. Stop trying to tell us that Muslims are just as peaceful and harmless as the rest of us. The facts prove this to be false over and over again.  It's not doing anyone a favor.

Considering the predominance of blacks who commit crimes and are under law enforcement surveillance , we should also stop trying to convince you blacks are peaceful like the rest of us, amarite?

Just go there. Though it's refreshing to see an unrepentant bigot at least be up front enough to publicly vomit the sludge in their dark little heart rather than even try to pretend otherwise. Kudos sir, kudos.

Blacks are a race.  Islam is an idealogy.  Did you forget?

Silly little man. Isn't it "black culture" that leads to these problems? and isn't that as much a set of values and beliefs as Islam?

Your move, bigot.

Nah, not going to waste my time with your personal attacks.  Carry on.

Nah, you're backing off because you realize that treating every Muslim the same is the equivalent of treating every black person the same. What ? there are different types of black people with different backgrounds, culture, values, and goals? well no $hit Sherlock, just like--wait for it--the are different types of Muslims too!

And before you play7 the martyr about "personal attacks", my calling you a bigot is a 2 + 2 equals 4 statement of fact. You categorized an entire (or at least overwhelming majority) near billion people on the planet and a 1500 year old faith tradition based on bastards like this and Isis whom almost everyone agrees needs shot, and....well, "bigot" is purely an assessment like "sky is blue", but not an "attack".

Having acceepted I've demonstrated the utter trash your "argument" was, like a beta dog tucking tail forthe pack leader you may now ritually roll over on your back and piss yourself in submission. Kthnxby

I cant respond to an incoherent argument that is conflating race and with an idealogy.  It makes absolutely no sense. Islam, followed by billions worldwide, is generally regressive with regards to human rights.  Black people are born with a skin color. I have no clue what point you're trying to make.

You don't know me, so Im not going to waste my breath responding to your personal attacks, once again..  I know what I am in my heart.

[Green Line]

Since that would be very out of character for an American Christian, I would certainly be surprised.  

Indeed, American Christians would much prefer to shoot up a Planned Parenthood than a gay nightclub.

The numbers of Americans killed by Christian terrorism vs Islamic terrorism is a bunny hill vs Mt Everest.  What a strawman.

[Green Line]

Since that would be very out of character for an American Christian, I would certainly be surprised.  

Indeed, American Christians would much prefer to shoot up a Planned Parenthood than a gay nightclub.

The numbers of Americans killed by Christian terrorism vs Islamic terrorism is a bunny hill vs Mt Everest.  What a strawman.

Actually, the numbers of Americans killed by domestic terrorism is greater than any foreign terrorism. But, of course, everybody fixates about those bad Muslims.

Of course, this attack in Orlando wasn't foreign terrorism. Nor was the Boston bombers, etc, etc. In fact, with the exception of the Charleston massacre, the Sikh Temple shooting and the Oklahoma City Bombing, most of the major mass casualty  incidents (Fort Hood, Boston, Orlando, San Bernadino, etc) were committed by Muslims.

Whether you agree with Trump or are like me and find his proposed Muslim ban retarded, it's intellectually dishonest to perpetrate the myth that it's still 1994 and that militia groups are still a threat. Even if they did exist outside of a handful of Bubbas drinking beer and shooting off their guns in an Idaho trailer park, how many Federal Buildings have they blown up since McVeigh?

The Oklahoma City bombing also was not even christian terrorism.  Thats my point.

[Green Line]

Since that would be very out of character for an American Christian, I would certainly be surprised.  

Indeed, American Christians would much prefer to shoot up a Planned Parenthood than a gay nightclub.

The numbers of Americans killed by Christian terrorism vs Islamic terrorism is a bunny hill vs Mt Everest.  What a strawman.

Actually, the numbers of Americans killed by domestic terrorism is greater than any foreign terrorism. But, of course, everybody fixates about those bad Muslims.

Of course, this attack in Orlando wasn't foreign terrorism. 

Yet certain people are tying this to "foreign terrorism".

Domestic Islamic terrorism and foreign Islamic terrorism do not exist in two seperate worlds.  He was radicalized by foreign terrorists (ISIS) and his parents were immigrants.

[Green Line]

Many acts that are perfectly fitting the description of "domestic terrorism" are either overlooked, but described as simple murders/shootings.

If the Columbine shooting (any of recent school shootings) was being perpetrated by a Muslim, media would instantly call it a terrorist act, rather than "just" a "school shooting".

No, if the Columbine shooters had a political agenda with their shooting they would have been called terrorists. Terrorism requires a political motive, such as the Charleston church shooting, oklahoma city, orlando, etc.  (Oops, looks like 2 of those were done by white guys)

[Green Line]

Many acts that are perfectly fitting the description of "domestic terrorism" are either overlooked, but described as simple murders/shootings.

If the Columbine shooting (any of recent school shootings) was being perpetrated by a Muslim, media would instantly call it a terrorist act, rather than "just" a "school shooting".

No, if the Columbine shooters had a political agenda with their shooting they would have been called terrorists. Terrorism requires a political motive, such as the Charleston church shooting, oklahoma city, orlando, etc.  (Oops, looks like 2 of those were done by white guys)

Stop moving goalposts to fit your agenda.

What goalposts??

[Green Line]

Many acts that are perfectly fitting the description of "domestic terrorism" are either overlooked, but described as simple murders/shootings.

If the Columbine shooting (any of recent school shootings) was being perpetrated by a Muslim, media would instantly call it a terrorist act, rather than "just" a "school shooting".

No, if the Columbine shooters had a political agenda with their shooting they would have been called terrorists. Terrorism requires a political motive, such as the Charleston church shooting, oklahoma city, orlando, etc.  (Oops, looks like 2 of those were done by white guys)

Stop moving goalposts to fit your agenda.

What goalposts??

About what "you" consider terrorism.

Those have always been my goalposts, dopey.