Which religions seek to actively convert people (besides Christianity & Islam)?

[Intell]

Hinduism shouldn't convert people, as it is against scripture, and as that would make it seem like hinduism is an organised religion, rather than a universal way of life/philosophy.

[The Mikado]

Judaism is basically a religion only for Jewish people. Jews acknowledge most of Jewish law doesn't apply to outsiders, and that outsiders can still find favor with God without converting (law of Noah).

This may be true (though not only can non-Jews "find favor with G-d" by keeping the Noahide laws, they are actually supposed to keep them), but let's not forget we say this in Aleinu three times a day (bolded emphasis by me):

"Therefore we put our hope in You, Hashem our G-d, that we may soon see your mighty splendor, to remove detestable idolatry from the earth, and false gods will be utterly cut off, to perfect the universe through the Almighty's sovereignty. Then all humanity will call upon Your Name, to turn all the earth's wicked toward You. All the world's inhabitants will recognize and know that to You every knee should bend, every tongue should swear. Before You, Hashem, our G-d, they will bend every knee and cast themselves down and to the glory of Your Name they will render homage, and they will all accept upon themselves the yoke of Your kingship that You may reign over them soon and eternally."

This is to say -- Judaism is not entirely like "Judaism's for Jews, and everybody else can do whatever they like." At some point in the future non-Jews are supposed to recognize G-d as the Almighty too.

Come on, David, you know as well as I do that Judaism calls on outsiders to worship Him and shun false gods at the same time they don't want the same outsiders to convert to Judaism. The religious Jewish perspective is that they have certain obligations to God as His Chosen People and non-religious Jews aren't bound by those obligations, but that those outside people can still win favor by renouncing false gods and worshiping Him.

[they don't love you like i love you]

...that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can't quite figure out that process of thought in worshipping that religion's God but not converting.

Actually kind of leads into why I'd never be a member of a non-prosyletizing religion, it violates my logical standards. If something is true for me it must be true for everyone.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

...that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can't quite figure out that process of thought in worshipping that religion's God but not converting.

Actually kind of leads into why I'd never be a member of a non-prosyletizing religion, it violates my logical standards. If something is true for me it must be true for everyone.

It makes perfect sense if you see the Jewish people as a whole as a sort of priestly group (a concept which I would hope makes some sense to you since it's important in the Old Testament, memory of which I hope the left-Marcionites have not managed to entirely purge yet). Of course they'd have responsibilities and obligations and customs that other groups wouldn't. That's not the same thing as Jewish theology being somehow epistemologically less true for everybody else, which is why Gentiles are supposed to follow the Noahide laws. There were a number of these people back in "the day", called "God-fearers", including the bulk of the first wave of Gentile Christian converts.

[Antonio the Sixth]

If something is true for me it must be true for everyone.

Most BRTD statement ever.

[they don't love you like i love you]

It's simple logic. There can't be laws of thermodynamics and gravity that only apply to certain people. Therefore if it's a fact that God exists and that one religion is the true revelation of God, that is a FACT. It is true for everyone. And if it's not true than said religion is utterly pointless.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It's simple logic. There can't be laws of thermodynamics and gravity that only apply to certain people. Therefore if it's a fact that God exists and that one religion is the true revelation of God, that is a FACT. It is true for everyone. And if it's not true than said religion is utterly pointless.

Metaphysical statements cannot be "true" in the same way statements about the material world are "true" (which is not to say they're less true). I find it baffling that you can't comprehend this idea.

[DavidB.]

Judaism is basically a religion only for Jewish people. Jews acknowledge most of Jewish law doesn't apply to outsiders, and that outsiders can still find favor with God without converting (law of Noah).

This may be true (though not only can non-Jews "find favor with G-d" by keeping the Noahide laws, they are actually supposed to keep them), but let's not forget we say this in Aleinu three times a day (bolded emphasis by me):

"Therefore we put our hope in You, Hashem our G-d, that we may soon see your mighty splendor, to remove detestable idolatry from the earth, and false gods will be utterly cut off, to perfect the universe through the Almighty's sovereignty. Then all humanity will call upon Your Name, to turn all the earth's wicked toward You. All the world's inhabitants will recognize and know that to You every knee should bend, every tongue should swear. Before You, Hashem, our G-d, they will bend every knee and cast themselves down and to the glory of Your Name they will render homage, and they will all accept upon themselves the yoke of Your kingship that You may reign over them soon and eternally."

This is to say -- Judaism is not entirely like "Judaism's for Jews, and everybody else can do whatever they like." At some point in the future non-Jews are supposed to recognize G-d as the Almighty too.

Come on, David, you know as well as I do that Judaism calls on outsiders to worship Him and shun false gods at the same time they don't want the same outsiders to convert to Judaism. The religious Jewish perspective is that they have certain obligations to God as His Chosen People and non-religious Jews aren't bound by those obligations, but that those outside people can still win favor by renouncing false gods and worshiping Him.

Yes, I almost entirely agree -- where does your statement contradict mine? I'm not saying Aleinu says everybody is supposed to convert to Judaism at some point. I'm saying Aleinu says everybody is supposed to recognize G-d as the Almighty. The part where I disagree is where you say that "non-religious Jews aren't bound by those obligations" -- perhaps you meant to say non-Jews? Because non-religious Jews are certainly supposed to keep the mizvot just as much as a Haredi person (though this is different for someone who doesn't know about his Judaism or was raised without any knowledge of it). Non-Jews are bound by the Noahide laws but obviously not by the 613 mitzvot.

[Intell]

...that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can't quite figure out that process of thought in worshipping that religion's God but not converting.

Actually kind of leads into why I'd never be a member of a non-prosyletizing religion, it violates my logical standards. If something is true for me it must be true for everyone.

That's stupid, you can try to have people agree with you and your religion, while not trying to get them to convert.

[they don't love you like i love you]

It's simple logic. There can't be laws of thermodynamics and gravity that only apply to certain people. Therefore if it's a fact that God exists and that one religion is the true revelation of God, that is a FACT. It is true for everyone. And if it's not true than said religion is utterly pointless.

Metaphysical statements cannot be "true" in the same way statements about the material world are "true" (which is not to say they're less true). I find it baffling that you can't comprehend this idea.

Uh, why? Either God exists or She doesn't.

...that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can't quite figure out that process of thought in worshipping that religion's God but not converting.

Actually kind of leads into why I'd never be a member of a non-prosyletizing religion, it violates my logical standards. If something is true for me it must be true for everyone.

That's stupid, you can try to have people agree with you and your religion, while not trying to get them to convert.

Um, no? What type of person believes Jesus was the Son of God but isn't a Christian?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I mean, to a significant extent, that's sort of the history of Christianity BRTD. Reformed and Dissenting (these two categories don't entirely overlap but do partially and absolutely are as one on this matter) Protestant churches historically placed a particularly heavy emphasis on the OT for more or less this reason though from a different perspective. Like it's no coincidence that it was under Cromwell that Jews were allowed back into England.

[Intell]

It's simple logic. There can't be laws of thermodynamics and gravity that only apply to certain people. Therefore if it's a fact that God exists and that one religion is the true revelation of God, that is a FACT. It is true for everyone. And if it's not true than said religion is utterly pointless.

Metaphysical statements cannot be "true" in the same way statements about the material world are "true" (which is not to say they're less true). I find it baffling that you can't comprehend this idea.

Uh, why? Either God exists or She doesn't.

...that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can't quite figure out that process of thought in worshipping that religion's God but not converting.

Actually kind of leads into why I'd never be a member of a non-prosyletizing religion, it violates my logical standards. If something is true for me it must be true for everyone.

That's stupid, you can try to have people agree with you and your religion, while not trying to get them to convert.

Um, no? What type of person believes Jesus was the Son of God but isn't a Christian?

You really live in your fycking bubble don't you, any who, christianity and islam and all these monotheistic religion aren't the only religions in the world, you know.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It's simple logic. There can't be laws of thermodynamics and gravity that only apply to certain people. Therefore if it's a fact that God exists and that one religion is the true revelation of God, that is a FACT. It is true for everyone. And if it's not true than said religion is utterly pointless.

Metaphysical statements cannot be "true" in the same way statements about the material world are "true" (which is not to say they're less true). I find it baffling that you can't comprehend this idea.

Uh, why? Either God exists or She doesn't.

Because neither is demonstrable. You can't expect people to think like you when you have no objective reason to think that way in the first place (that's true for atheists as well, to be clear).

[TJ in Oregon]

Therefore if it's a fact that God exists and that one religion is the true revelation of God, that is a FACT. It is true for everyone. And if it's not true than said religion is utterly pointless.

If you can't prove it, it isn't a fact, or at least you can't know that it is a fact. That point alone makes your entire sentence meaningless, and let me emphasize that I am a religious person.

Whether or not a fact is knowable doesn't change whether it's true or false. It makes sense logically if God (as understood by classical theism) exists or doesn't exist. But it makes no sense for God to exist for some people but not for others.

[TJ in Oregon]

Therefore if it's a fact that God exists and that one religion is the true revelation of God, that is a FACT. It is true for everyone. And if it's not true than said religion is utterly pointless.

If you can't prove it, it isn't a fact, or at least you can't know that it is a fact. That point alone makes your entire sentence meaningless, and let me emphasize that I am a religious person.

Whether or not a fact is knowable doesn't change whether it's true or false. It makes sense logically if God (as understood by classical theism) exists or doesn't exist. But it makes no sense for God to exist for some people but not for others.

True, I'm arguing for within people of different religions, not atheists vs theists. My point is, there's nothing inherently wrong with people having different religions, until whatever day comes and we figure who was right. Then, it would make no sense.

I think in that case, we've simply moved the question over a step. Ultimately, if the beliefs of different religions are in contradiction, then at most one of them can be right. We might not know the answers as clearly as in other circumstances, but are the different religions not still competing truth claims that can be rationally considered for their own plausibility? Certainly one can argue about whether the answer is Hasidic Judaism or Lutheranism, but they both obviously can't be right at the same time.

[The Mikado]

...that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can't quite figure out that process of thought in worshipping that religion's God but not converting.

Actually kind of leads into why I'd never be a member of a non-prosyletizing religion, it violates my logical standards. If something is true for me it must be true for everyone.

It makes perfect sense.  Traditional Jewish logic is that the Jews have a contract with God in which they perform extra obligations in return for a special status (with brutal severance terms for the Jews if they don't hold up their end of the bargain: see Deuteronomy...like all of it). Non-Jews are outside of the contract. They're welcome to worship and follow God (and even in the Bible you find pagans like Balaam who end up worshipping God) but none of the obligations of Jewish law apply to them because they are outside of God's deal with the Jews.

[they don't love you like i love you]

There's plenty of theories about physics and astronomy that haven't been proven and that we don't fully understand yet, but that doesn't mean that competing theories can both be true. Eventually some will be proven true and some false, just like so many theories in the past. Hence why any religion that holds that it's only true for certain people makes no sense, and why I could never be a part of one.

...that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can't quite figure out that process of thought in worshipping that religion's God but not converting.

Actually kind of leads into why I'd never be a member of a non-prosyletizing religion, it violates my logical standards. If something is true for me it must be true for everyone.

It makes perfect sense.  Traditional Jewish logic is that the Jews have a contract with God in which they perform extra obligations in return for a special status (with brutal severance terms for the Jews if they don't hold up their end of the bargain: see Deuteronomy...like all of it). Non-Jews are outside of the contract. They're welcome to worship and follow God (and even in the Bible you find pagans like Balaam who end up worshipping God) but none of the obligations of Jewish law apply to them because they are outside of God's deal with the Jews.

That sort of thinking and the notion that there are special rules binding on me but not most people would quite frankly horrify me. That definitely confirms that I'd convert out of Judaism if I was born Jewish.

[TJ in Oregon]

Therefore if it's a fact that God exists and that one religion is the true revelation of God, that is a FACT. It is true for everyone. And if it's not true than said religion is utterly pointless.

If you can't prove it, it isn't a fact, or at least you can't know that it is a fact. That point alone makes your entire sentence meaningless, and let me emphasize that I am a religious person.

Whether or not a fact is knowable doesn't change whether it's true or false. It makes sense logically if God (as understood by classical theism) exists or doesn't exist. But it makes no sense for God to exist for some people but not for others.

True, I'm arguing for within people of different religions, not atheists vs theists. My point is, there's nothing inherently wrong with people having different religions, until whatever day comes and we figure who was right. Then, it would make no sense.

I think in that case, we've simply moved the question over a step. Ultimately, if the beliefs of different religions are in contradiction, then at most one of them can be right. We might not know the answers as clearly as in other circumstances, but are the different religions not still competing truth claims that can be rationally considered for their own plausibility? Certainly one can argue about whether the answer is Hasidic Judaism or Lutheranism, but they both obviously can't be right at the same time.

But couldn't the person that is proselytizing be the one that is wrong? In that case, they would have just hurt people instead of helping them. Also there are some liberal Christians who believe in universal salvation. You would probably know more about this than me, but I believe some 18th century Methodists and Episcopalians followed this viewpoint.

Of course they could be. Any time someone tries to change something about the world, they could be changing things for the worse. That's simply a reality of life.

Yes, there are many liberal Christians who believe in universal salvation (many still do today), and well, they're also either right or wrong in the end. One would expect they wouldn't likely care much about convincing people of their theological views. However, they often try to convince people of their views or how things should be in this world instead of their theological views, so the argument never really ends.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

There's plenty of theories about physics and astronomy that haven't been proven and that we don't fully understand yet, but that doesn't mean that competing theories can both be true. Eventually some will be proven true and some false, just like so many theories in the past. Hence why any religion that holds that it's only true for certain people makes no sense, and why I could never be a part of one.

...that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can't quite figure out that process of thought in worshipping that religion's God but not converting.

Actually kind of leads into why I'd never be a member of a non-prosyletizing religion, it violates my logical standards. If something is true for me it must be true for everyone.

It makes perfect sense.  Traditional Jewish logic is that the Jews have a contract with God in which they perform extra obligations in return for a special status (with brutal severance terms for the Jews if they don't hold up their end of the bargain: see Deuteronomy...like all of it). Non-Jews are outside of the contract. They're welcome to worship and follow God (and even in the Bible you find pagans like Balaam who end up worshipping God) but none of the obligations of Jewish law apply to them because they are outside of God's deal with the Jews.

That sort of thinking and the notion that there are special rules binding on me but not most people would quite frankly horrify me. That definitely confirms that I'd convert out of Judaism if I was born Jewish.

If you were born Jewish you wouldn't be you, but if you were you you'd almost certainly be Reform or Reconstructionist.

[they don't love you like i love you]

There's plenty of theories about physics and astronomy that haven't been proven and that we don't fully understand yet, but that doesn't mean that competing theories can both be true. Eventually some will be proven true and some false, just like so many theories in the past. Hence why any religion that holds that it's only true for certain people makes no sense, and why I could never be a part of one.

...that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can't quite figure out that process of thought in worshipping that religion's God but not converting.

Actually kind of leads into why I'd never be a member of a non-prosyletizing religion, it violates my logical standards. If something is true for me it must be true for everyone.

It makes perfect sense.  Traditional Jewish logic is that the Jews have a contract with God in which they perform extra obligations in return for a special status (with brutal severance terms for the Jews if they don't hold up their end of the bargain: see Deuteronomy...like all of it). Non-Jews are outside of the contract. They're welcome to worship and follow God (and even in the Bible you find pagans like Balaam who end up worshipping God) but none of the obligations of Jewish law apply to them because they are outside of God's deal with the Jews.

That sort of thinking and the notion that there are special rules binding on me but not most people would quite frankly horrify me. That definitely confirms that I'd convert out of Judaism if I was born Jewish.

If you were born Jewish you wouldn't be you, but if you were you you'd almost certainly be Reform or Reconstructionist.

I could easily be born Jewish from the same environment. There is a Jewish community in Bismarck you know.

Also there's approximately zero Jews in my scene who are more religious and/or observant than Bernie Sanders or Lena Dunham.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

There's plenty of theories about physics and astronomy that haven't been proven and that we don't fully understand yet, but that doesn't mean that competing theories can both be true. Eventually some will be proven true and some false, just like so many theories in the past. Hence why any religion that holds that it's only true for certain people makes no sense, and why I could never be a part of one.

...that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can't quite figure out that process of thought in worshipping that religion's God but not converting.

Actually kind of leads into why I'd never be a member of a non-prosyletizing religion, it violates my logical standards. If something is true for me it must be true for everyone.

It makes perfect sense.  Traditional Jewish logic is that the Jews have a contract with God in which they perform extra obligations in return for a special status (with brutal severance terms for the Jews if they don't hold up their end of the bargain: see Deuteronomy...like all of it). Non-Jews are outside of the contract. They're welcome to worship and follow God (and even in the Bible you find pagans like Balaam who end up worshipping God) but none of the obligations of Jewish law apply to them because they are outside of God's deal with the Jews.

That sort of thinking and the notion that there are special rules binding on me but not most people would quite frankly horrify me. That definitely confirms that I'd convert out of Judaism if I was born Jewish.

If you were born Jewish you wouldn't be you, but if you were you you'd almost certainly be Reform or Reconstructionist.

I could easily be born Jewish from the same environment. There is a Jewish community in Bismarck you know.

Also there's approximately zero Jews in my scene who are more religious and/or observant than Bernie Sanders or Lena Dunham.

The point I'm making, and the point everybody's been trying to make for years, is that "your scene" is not the long and the short of you, and ending up in it is not some sort of inevitable fate. No, not even inevitable for people from Bismarck.

I say you'd probably be Reform or Reconstructionist because I think it's unlikely, admittedly based on my experience as a damn dirty Northeasterner, that anybody from a non-Hasidic/Haredi American Jewish background is going to look at any form of reasonably Nicene Creed-compliant Christianity and think it's more "all liberal, all the time" than Reform or Reconstructionist Judaism. I believe you that there are Jewish converts to hipster Christianity in "your scene"--I know Jewish converts to Catholicism and even Orthodoxy; why wouldn't I believe you?--but I'd be willing to bet they were looking for things at least marginally more theologically specific than "all liberal, all the time" in a religion. "Almost certainly" was too strong, sure.

[they don't love you like i love you]

There's plenty of theories about physics and astronomy that haven't been proven and that we don't fully understand yet, but that doesn't mean that competing theories can both be true. Eventually some will be proven true and some false, just like so many theories in the past. Hence why any religion that holds that it's only true for certain people makes no sense, and why I could never be a part of one.

...that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can't quite figure out that process of thought in worshipping that religion's God but not converting.

Actually kind of leads into why I'd never be a member of a non-prosyletizing religion, it violates my logical standards. If something is true for me it must be true for everyone.

It makes perfect sense.  Traditional Jewish logic is that the Jews have a contract with God in which they perform extra obligations in return for a special status (with brutal severance terms for the Jews if they don't hold up their end of the bargain: see Deuteronomy...like all of it). Non-Jews are outside of the contract. They're welcome to worship and follow God (and even in the Bible you find pagans like Balaam who end up worshipping God) but none of the obligations of Jewish law apply to them because they are outside of God's deal with the Jews.

That sort of thinking and the notion that there are special rules binding on me but not most people would quite frankly horrify me. That definitely confirms that I'd convert out of Judaism if I was born Jewish.

If you were born Jewish you wouldn't be you, but if you were you you'd almost certainly be Reform or Reconstructionist.

I could easily be born Jewish from the same environment. There is a Jewish community in Bismarck you know.

Also there's approximately zero Jews in my scene who are more religious and/or observant than Bernie Sanders or Lena Dunham.

The point I'm making, and the point everybody's been trying to make for years, is that "your scene" is not the long and the short of you, and ending up in it is not some sort of inevitable fate. No, not even inevitable for people from Bismarck.

I say you'd probably be Reform or Reconstructionist because I think it's unlikely, admittedly based on my experience as a damn dirty Northeasterner, that anybody from a non-Hasidic/Haredi American Jewish background is going to look at any form of reasonably Nicene Creed-compliant Christianity and think it's more "all liberal, all the time" than Reform or Reconstructionist Judaism. I believe you that there are Jewish converts to hipster Christianity in "your scene"--I know Jewish converts to Catholicism and even Orthodoxy; why wouldn't I believe you?--but I'd be willing to bet they were looking for things at least marginally more theologically specific than "all liberal, all the time" in a religion. "Almost certainly" was too strong, sure.

There's zero chance I'd ever be a Reconstructionist Jew, since I see "religions" that you don't even need to believe in God to follow to be completely pointless (if that wasn't clear from my previous comments.) If I didn't believe in God, I'd be "None" regardless of my upbringing.

Being Jewish in North Dakota is actually not much different than being a non-Jew there. I can attest this thread is pretty accurate (although outdated, there is a synagogue in Bismarck now): http://www.city-data.com/forum/north-dakota/154965-jewish-life-nd.html Notably this quote:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

(Incidentally that's a big part of why I find the concept of "cultural Catholicism" so impossible to understand and a foreign and alien concept, because being Catholic or not is not any type of dividing factor or thing that anyone really cares about. The idea that it's the ultimate dividing factor in whatever your culture is and something inescapable in such an environment strikes me as weird as most Atlas posters would for people who vote for parties for reasons that have nothing to do with ideology.)

Also the majority of Jews that I know have tattoos. (which is why I had such a perplexing reaction to being told even secular Jews don't get tattoos, I basically thought WHAT. THE. F[INKS]?!)

As far as the "all liberal all the time" bit, you know I didn't start saying that until a few years ago? And if that was indeed my standard wouldn't that disqualify me from going to a church that has said things about abortion that mine has or plays Hillsong songs? If I actually wanted "all liberal all the time" then I'd be a Unitarian Universalist or something.

(Incidentally it's interesting how people in "the scene" COMPLETELY shed all cultural aspects they are raised in and becoming entirely separated from their upbringing. The perfect example of this is some of the Hmong I know who are in it. First generation in the US and they are already culturally indistinct from white people who grew up in affluent Twin Cities suburbs or a guy from North Dakota.)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Maybe around you, but presumably not around their mothers. People are complex and multifaceted...

[DC Al Fine]

There's plenty of theories about physics and astronomy that haven't been proven and that we don't fully understand yet, but that doesn't mean that competing theories can both be true. Eventually some will be proven true and some false, just like so many theories in the past. Hence why any religion that holds that it's only true for certain people makes no sense, and why I could never be a part of one.

...that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can't quite figure out that process of thought in worshipping that religion's God but not converting.

Actually kind of leads into why I'd never be a member of a non-prosyletizing religion, it violates my logical standards. If something is true for me it must be true for everyone.

It makes perfect sense.  Traditional Jewish logic is that the Jews have a contract with God in which they perform extra obligations in return for a special status (with brutal severance terms for the Jews if they don't hold up their end of the bargain: see Deuteronomy...like all of it). Non-Jews are outside of the contract. They're welcome to worship and follow God (and even in the Bible you find pagans like Balaam who end up worshipping God) but none of the obligations of Jewish law apply to them because they are outside of God's deal with the Jews.

That sort of thinking and the notion that there are special rules binding on me but not most people would quite frankly horrify me. That definitely confirms that I'd convert out of Judaism if I was born Jewish.

If you were born Jewish you wouldn't be you, but if you were you you'd almost certainly be Reform or Reconstructionist.

I could easily be born Jewish from the same environment. There is a Jewish community in Bismarck you know.

Also there's approximately zero Jews in my scene who are more religious and/or observant than Bernie Sanders or Lena Dunham.

The point I'm making, and the point everybody's been trying to make for years, is that "your scene" is not the long and the short of you, and ending up in it is not some sort of inevitable fate. No, not even inevitable for people from Bismarck.

I say you'd probably be Reform or Reconstructionist because I think it's unlikely, admittedly based on my experience as a damn dirty Northeasterner, that anybody from a non-Hasidic/Haredi American Jewish background is going to look at any form of reasonably Nicene Creed-compliant Christianity and think it's more "all liberal, all the time" than Reform or Reconstructionist Judaism. I believe you that there are Jewish converts to hipster Christianity in "your scene"--I know Jewish converts to Catholicism and even Orthodoxy; why wouldn't I believe you?--but I'd be willing to bet they were looking for things at least marginally more theologically specific than "all liberal, all the time" in a religion. "Almost certainly" was too strong, sure.

As an aside, I find it interesting how ultra-liberal churches seem to inevitably go down the road of formal heresy. You'd think some of them would still adhere to the creeds.

[bdschuh]

Islam doesn't not require others to become Muslim, if they are "People of the Book." In much the same manner that Jews only require Gentiles to abide by the Seven Laws of Noah without a need to convert to become Jews. To my knowledge, only Christianity says, "Believe like us, do like us, or go to hell." Christianity is the only major world faith to demand conversion for salvation.