A Fred Karger/Jon Huntsman ticket 2012 ticket?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 06, 2024, 12:49:54 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  Election What-ifs? (Moderator: Dereich)
  A Fred Karger/Jon Huntsman ticket 2012 ticket?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: A Fred Karger/Jon Huntsman ticket 2012 ticket?  (Read 508 times)
Suck my caulk
DemocratforJillStein
Rookie
**
Posts: 70


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: June 18, 2016, 11:35:26 PM »
« edited: June 19, 2016, 07:34:36 PM by Democrat for Jill Stein »

Fred Karger is a socially liberal, fiscally conservative, openly gay, Jewish atheist activist from California who briefly ran for the 2012 GOP nomination. He is pro-choice, supports marriage equality, supports the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell, supports an assault weapons ban and universal background checks, supports immigration reform ("amnesty"), supports a non-interventionist foreign policy, supports the death penalty, and supports keeping the Guantanamo Bay Prison open. If Fred Karger had somehow won his party's nomination in 2012, what would his chances have been against Obama? Would his generally liberal policies have convinced some conservative, moderate, or even liberal Democrats to vote for him? Would bigots, xenophobes, racists, and white supremacists have voted for an ethnic Jew just to spite Obama? Would Karger have won a single state, or would he so turn off the GOP base (particularly the social conservatives) that turnout would be sufficiently low to allow Obama to win every state? Would the fact that Karger worked on and in the Reagan/Bush campaign and administration excite the base enough to vote for him as the nominee, assuming the other primary challenges (i.e. Santorum and Bachmann) were gone?

This is my map of predictions: http://www.270towin.com/maps/597mk I figure Karger would choose Jon Huntsman, one of his primary challengers, because (a) Huntsman is also a "moderate" Republican who appeals to independent voters, and (b) because Huntsman is a Mormon and former Utah Governor, which Karger hopes will alleviate concerns among Mormon voters that Karger sued the LDS Church in 2008 over its support of Proposition 8. Ultimately, however, Karger is too liberal for Mormon voters in Utah (and Idaho and Arizona), and even their former Governor cannot save the ticket.

I have Karger/Huntsman winning West Virginia because Obama barely won the Democratic primary there, running against a federal inmate. If WV Democrats will not vote for Obama, then clearly WV Republicans will not vote for him. WV is a safe R state for Karger/Huntsman, despite the fact he is an openly gay, socially liberal, Jewish atheist. I have Kentucky as a win for Karger/Huntsman because of (a) demographics (the state is one of the whitest, and it is right next to WV [not a good prospect for Obama]), and (b) the fact that Kentucky elected Rand Paul to the Senate, perhaps suggesting a libertarian streak among some Kentuckians (is that too big of a stretch?). McCain lost some of Nebraska's electoral votes to Obama in 2008, suggesting the state is competitive; that said, it is not quite as conservative as neighboring Kansas, nor is it considered to be in the Bible Belt, unlike Kansas, so I think Nebraska will split in half for Karger, as it did for McCain in '08.

Texas, despite stereotypes, is not part of the Bible Belt, and while having a heavy social conservative influence, it also elected Ron Paul and is one of those states that I suspect will go Republican no matter what (whether the Republican nominee is a social conservative like Santorum, or a libertarian like Ron Paul, or Fred Karger/Jon Huntsman). Finally, I have Montana, Alaska, Wyoming, and the Dakotas as breaking for Karger:

A.) As of 1964, Wyoming is so heavily Republican, that it would vote for Obama if he was the Republican nominee, and therefore Karger if he was the nominee.

B.) Alaska has a heavily libertarian streak, and is even trending Democratic lately.

C.) Finally, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Montana are three of the whitest and most Republican states in the country, and also have heavily libertarian (read: more fiscally-focused Republicans) streaks, and I suspect would be safe for Karger.

All that said, the end result is Karger/Huntsman winning just Alaska, Kentucky, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Texas, Wyoming, West Virginia, and a single congressional district in Nebraska. That is a landslide loss on the scale of 1964 or 1988; Obama/Biden received 471 electoral votes, and Karger/Huntsman received 67.

What are your thoughts? Entertain me.
Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,095
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2016, 04:53:39 PM »

The point of Fred Karger being the nominee even in a hypothetical is moot unless you have him in some form of higher federal office first. Plus he'd have to pick a more traditionally conservative running-mate, because a Karger/Huntsman ticket would send the evangelicals into a fury. I'd recommend someone like Niki Haley.

Also Obama did win WV, but not by a margin to be proud of. I still see your point though.
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2016, 05:05:57 PM »

Sure, when Alvin Greene is the Democratic nominee.
Logged
VPH
vivaportugalhabs
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,700
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -0.17

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2016, 05:51:10 PM »

While it is cool to surmise how Karger would have done, I think this isn't quite how things work. Nebraska is by no means competitive as a whole state. Just one of three districts could be considered a swing district. Also, Montana is not one of the most Republican states. It has a Democratic senator, a Democratic governor, and almost broke for Obama in 2008.
Logged
LLR
LongLiveRock
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,956


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2016, 06:09:19 PM »

Why would he lose Mormon country (UT, ID) with a Mormon VP and when Mormons are more tolerant of gays than other Republicans???

And MT, ND, and SD, would all break Democrat well before many other states you have there.
Logged
Suck my caulk
DemocratforJillStein
Rookie
**
Posts: 70


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2016, 07:29:05 PM »
« Edited: June 20, 2016, 01:32:21 AM by Democrat for Jill Stein »

The point of Fred Karger being the nominee even in a hypothetical is moot unless you have him in some form of higher federal office first.

What would Karger's path to nomination have been?

Why would he lose Mormon country (UT, ID) with a Mormon VP and when Mormons are more tolerant of gays than other RepublicansHuh

And MT, ND, and SD, would all break Democrat well before many other states you have there.
Whether Karger is gay or not, I suspect the fact that he sued the LDS Church, along with the fact that he is a pro-choice atheist would be too much for Mormons.

While it is cool to surmise how Karger would have done, I think this isn't quite how things work. Nebraska is by no means competitive as a whole state. Just one of three districts could be considered a swing district. Also, Montana is not one of the most Republican states. It has a Democratic senator, a Democratic governor, and almost broke for Obama in 2008.

Thank you for pointing this out. I forgot about how competitive Montana is.
Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,095
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2016, 08:41:35 PM »

Romney won Montana 55-41. Just because Obama came within two points of winning in 2008 in the midst of an economic meltdown and an unpopular (and GOP backed) war in Iraq doesn't make it a competitive state persay.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.033 seconds with 11 queries.