The House Democrats Sit-In
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  The House Democrats Sit-In
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Author Topic: The House Democrats Sit-In  (Read 1933 times)
SillyAmerican
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« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2016, 06:19:39 PM »

House Democrats seem to be foaming at the mouth over gun control in response to the attack in Orlando. Why is it that these same Democrats aren't concerned about the murders taking place in Chicago? Why is it that gun control is only brought up in response to an ISIS attack?

This statement is patently nonsense. Democrats try to bring up gun control after every mass shooting. It's Republicans who take the "Gee, what are you gonna do? Stuff happens" approach whenever there's a mass shooting, except for when the shooter is a muslim.  

As for how this is different than Republicans abusing the filibuster or shutting down the government, that's easy. Republicans obstruct in order to prevent business from getting done, including even the most basic responsibilities assigned to congress (see refusing to even hold hearings on a SCOTUS nominee, refusing to pass a routine budget that doesn't include a poison pill "repeal Obamacare provision, etc.). This sit-in is being staged to try to get something done, not to obstruct. And since the official policy of congressional Republicans is to never get anything done, I'm not sure what vital business anyone thinks is being held up because of this.  

This, however, is not a filibuster (which, however undemocratic, is part of the rules that neither party has wanted to give up for one reason or another).  The House doesn't have filibusters.  

This is an anarchic display of misconduct by folks that didn't have the numbers to get what they wanted done, and who passed on what would have been a compromise that represented achievement.  

In this, the Democrats forfeited some of the moral high ground they could once claim.  One of the things that has disgusted me about the GOP over the last 7-8 years is their desire to sabotage Obama's proposals to ENSURE that they fail.  Obamacare is a prime example; it is actually a Republican-based plan dating back to what the GOP was advancing in the 1970s, and a plan that, with ongoing maintenance and tinkering, could succeed, but they want it to fail.  Democrats are not wrong to point that out.  Compromise and achievement would be to the credit of the GOP on Obamacare, and it would have been to the credit of the Democrats had they voted in the Cornyn Bill.  Someone has to go first.

The GOP has earned Democrats' enmity.  They would "deserve it" if after Trump is elected (if he wins) they filibustered and blocked every single appointment Trump made.  They could do it, and it might play in today's environment.  But America doesn't "deserve it".  A republican form of government allows elected representatives to use their best judgement in legislating, but they are supposed to use their best judgement on behalf of the nation they serve, first, and on behalf of the constituency they represent, second.  There was none of that in the Democrats' action yesterday, and the way they went about it dealt a blow to the perception of stability in our democracy that the American people could have done without.

Don't forget Dems obstructed bush on everything he tried to do after Medicare Part D was passed.Also dont forget that reid also refused to vote on any of the proposals the house voted on from 2010-2014.

Yes. The sad truth is that this isn't a Republican problem or a Democrat problem, it is an establishment problem. When people start demanding that their representatives serve to represent everyone, not just those of their party, maybe we'll begin to see the ability to move forward on some of these issues. Until then, the screaming and finger pointing will continue...
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Higgs
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« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2016, 06:22:46 PM »

A shameless publicity stunt on the part of the Democrats.

A crass money grab on the part of the Democrats, actually soliciting donations by using the Orlando tragedy as a fund raising effort.

Democrats exhibiting shamelessly pictures of the victims in Orlando, which at the very least is in extremely bad taste.    

This. Made even more shameful by the fact that they are tantruming after having voted against the Cornyn bill which would have passed, and was at least 1 step towards what the Democrats wanted.

Dem Offer: Everyone on the watchlist should be banned from buying guns

GOP Counter-Offer: Everyone on the watchlist faces a waiting period before they can buy guns so that the Feds can get a Judge to ban them from buying guns if need be

Dem rejection: No thanks, we prefer no one on the watchlist be banned from buying guns if you get publicity too

Can any Dems who support the sit in refute this? Seriously, what is wrong with the GOP's version?
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« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2016, 11:07:13 PM »

House Democrats seem to be foaming at the mouth over gun control in response to the attack in Orlando. Why is it that these same Democrats aren't concerned about the murders taking place in Chicago? Why is it that gun control is only brought up in response to an ISIS attack?

This statement is patently nonsense. Democrats try to bring up gun control after every mass shooting. It's Republicans who take the "Gee, what are you gonna do? Stuff happens" approach whenever there's a mass shooting, except for when the shooter is a muslim.  

As for how this is different than Republicans abusing the filibuster or shutting down the government, that's easy. Republicans obstruct in order to prevent business from getting done, including even the most basic responsibilities assigned to congress (see refusing to even hold hearings on a SCOTUS nominee, refusing to pass a routine budget that doesn't include a poison pill "repeal Obamacare provision, etc.). This sit-in is being staged to try to get something done, not to obstruct. And since the official policy of congressional Republicans is to never get anything done, I'm not sure what vital business anyone thinks is being held up because of this.  

This, however, is not a filibuster (which, however undemocratic, is part of the rules that neither party has wanted to give up for one reason or another).  The House doesn't have filibusters.  

This is an anarchic display of misconduct by folks that didn't have the numbers to get what they wanted done, and who passed on what would have been a compromise that represented achievement.  

In this, the Democrats forfeited some of the moral high ground they could once claim.  One of the things that has disgusted me about the GOP over the last 7-8 years is their desire to sabotage Obama's proposals to ENSURE that they fail.  Obamacare is a prime example; it is actually a Republican-based plan dating back to what the GOP was advancing in the 1970s, and a plan that, with ongoing maintenance and tinkering, could succeed, but they want it to fail.  Democrats are not wrong to point that out.  Compromise and achievement would be to the credit of the GOP on Obamacare, and it would have been to the credit of the Democrats had they voted in the Cornyn Bill.  Someone has to go first.

The GOP has earned Democrats' enmity.  They would "deserve it" if after Trump is elected (if he wins) they filibustered and blocked every single appointment Trump made.  They could do it, and it might play in today's environment.  But America doesn't "deserve it".  A republican form of government allows elected representatives to use their best judgement in legislating, but they are supposed to use their best judgement on behalf of the nation they serve, first, and on behalf of the constituency they represent, second.  There was none of that in the Democrats' action yesterday, and the way they went about it dealt a blow to the perception of stability in our democracy that the American people could have done without.

Don't forget Dems obstructed bush on everything he tried to do after Medicare Part D was passed.Also dont forget that reid also refused to vote on any of the proposals the house voted on from 2010-2014.

Yes. The sad truth is that this isn't a Republican problem or a Democrat problem, it is an establishment problem. When people start demanding that their representatives serve to represent everyone, not just those of their party, maybe we'll begin to see the ability to move forward on some of these issues. Until then, the screaming and finger pointing will continue...

agreed
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2016, 01:53:01 AM »

House Democrats seem to be foaming at the mouth over gun control in response to the attack in Orlando. Why is it that these same Democrats aren't concerned about the murders taking place in Chicago? Why is it that gun control is only brought up in response to an ISIS attack?

This statement is patently nonsense. Democrats try to bring up gun control after every mass shooting. It's Republicans who take the "Gee, what are you gonna do? Stuff happens" approach whenever there's a mass shooting, except for when the shooter is a muslim. 

As for how this is different than Republicans abusing the filibuster or shutting down the government, that's easy. Republicans obstruct in order to prevent business from getting done, including even the most basic responsibilities assigned to congress (see refusing to even hold hearings on a SCOTUS nominee, refusing to pass a routine budget that doesn't include a poison pill "repeal Obamacare provision, etc.). This sit-in is being staged to try to get something done, not to obstruct. And since the official policy of congressional Republicans is to never get anything done, I'm not sure what vital business anyone thinks is being held up because of this. 

This, however, is not a filibuster (which, however undemocratic, is part of the rules that neither party has wanted to give up for one reason or another).  The House doesn't have filibusters. 

This is an anarchic display of misconduct by folks that didn't have the numbers to get what they wanted done, and who passed on what would have been a compromise that represented achievement. 

In this, the Democrats forfeited some of the moral high ground they could once claim.  One of the things that has disgusted me about the GOP over the last 7-8 years is their desire to sabotage Obama's proposals to ENSURE that they fail.  Obamacare is a prime example; it is actually a Republican-based plan dating back to what the GOP was advancing in the 1970s, and a plan that, with ongoing maintenance and tinkering, could succeed, but they want it to fail.  Democrats are not wrong to point that out.  Compromise and achievement would be to the credit of the GOP on Obamacare, and it would have been to the credit of the Democrats had they voted in the Cornyn Bill.  Someone has to go first.

The GOP has earned Democrats' enmity.  They would "deserve it" if after Trump is elected (if he wins) they filibustered and blocked every single appointment Trump made.  They could do it, and it might play in today's environment.  But America doesn't "deserve it".  A republican form of government allows elected representatives to use their best judgement in legislating, but they are supposed to use their best judgement on behalf of the nation they serve, first, and on behalf of the constituency they represent, second.  There was none of that in the Democrats' action yesterday, and the way they went about it dealt a blow to the perception of stability in our democracy that the American people could have done without.

Both sides are completely dug in, and there seems to no longer be any thought given to actually working things out in order to move things forward. The word "compromise" no longer represents a positive option, and the republic is suffering because of it. As you say, in the past, there was a recognition of our being one nation, where today the divide is seen as a chasm that simply cannot be crossed. It's sad, but that's where we're at.

How could the Republicans compromise?  They and their partner here, the NRA, have done their best convincing Republican voters that Second Amendment Rights are absolute.  How can you compromise on something that you've told people is absolute, especially when, since I don't believe these Republicans are lying, many of the House Members themselves likely believe the Second Amendment is absolute.
The compromise would have been to vote for the Cornyn Bill.
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Higgs
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« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2016, 05:07:55 AM »

House Democrats seem to be foaming at the mouth over gun control in response to the attack in Orlando. Why is it that these same Democrats aren't concerned about the murders taking place in Chicago? Why is it that gun control is only brought up in response to an ISIS attack?

This statement is patently nonsense. Democrats try to bring up gun control after every mass shooting. It's Republicans who take the "Gee, what are you gonna do? Stuff happens" approach whenever there's a mass shooting, except for when the shooter is a muslim. 

As for how this is different than Republicans abusing the filibuster or shutting down the government, that's easy. Republicans obstruct in order to prevent business from getting done, including even the most basic responsibilities assigned to congress (see refusing to even hold hearings on a SCOTUS nominee, refusing to pass a routine budget that doesn't include a poison pill "repeal Obamacare provision, etc.). This sit-in is being staged to try to get something done, not to obstruct. And since the official policy of congressional Republicans is to never get anything done, I'm not sure what vital business anyone thinks is being held up because of this. 

This, however, is not a filibuster (which, however undemocratic, is part of the rules that neither party has wanted to give up for one reason or another).  The House doesn't have filibusters. 

This is an anarchic display of misconduct by folks that didn't have the numbers to get what they wanted done, and who passed on what would have been a compromise that represented achievement. 

In this, the Democrats forfeited some of the moral high ground they could once claim.  One of the things that has disgusted me about the GOP over the last 7-8 years is their desire to sabotage Obama's proposals to ENSURE that they fail.  Obamacare is a prime example; it is actually a Republican-based plan dating back to what the GOP was advancing in the 1970s, and a plan that, with ongoing maintenance and tinkering, could succeed, but they want it to fail.  Democrats are not wrong to point that out.  Compromise and achievement would be to the credit of the GOP on Obamacare, and it would have been to the credit of the Democrats had they voted in the Cornyn Bill.  Someone has to go first.

The GOP has earned Democrats' enmity.  They would "deserve it" if after Trump is elected (if he wins) they filibustered and blocked every single appointment Trump made.  They could do it, and it might play in today's environment.  But America doesn't "deserve it".  A republican form of government allows elected representatives to use their best judgement in legislating, but they are supposed to use their best judgement on behalf of the nation they serve, first, and on behalf of the constituency they represent, second.  There was none of that in the Democrats' action yesterday, and the way they went about it dealt a blow to the perception of stability in our democracy that the American people could have done without.

Both sides are completely dug in, and there seems to no longer be any thought given to actually working things out in order to move things forward. The word "compromise" no longer represents a positive option, and the republic is suffering because of it. As you say, in the past, there was a recognition of our being one nation, where today the divide is seen as a chasm that simply cannot be crossed. It's sad, but that's where we're at.

How could the Republicans compromise?  They and their partner here, the NRA, have done their best convincing Republican voters that Second Amendment Rights are absolute.  How can you compromise on something that you've told people is absolute, especially when, since I don't believe these Republicans are lying, many of the House Members themselves likely believe the Second Amendment is absolute.
The compromise would have been to vote for the Cornyn Bill.

Yep
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IceSpear
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« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2016, 08:13:30 PM »

99% of Americans are not watching and the remaining 1% are probably split.  The Republic will survive.

LOL, so true. I love it when threads like these get replies like these quickly.

STOP OVERREACTING TO EVERYTHING. NOBODY WILL CARE ABOUT THIS IN A WEEK, MUCH LESS IN 5 MONTHS.
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Horus
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« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2016, 08:14:19 PM »

Bad move. Young people are a lot less likely to support an assault weapons ban than older Americans. This could be the moment that the Democrats start losing the youth vote.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2016, 08:17:37 PM »

Bad move. Young people are a lot less likely to support an assault weapons ban than older Americans. This could be the moment that the Democrats start losing the youth vote.

*sigh*

Let me try this again...

STOP OVERREACTING TO EVERYTHING. NOBODY WILL CARE ABOUT THIS IN A WEEK, MUCH LESS IN 5 MONTHS.
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Badger
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« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2016, 11:44:40 PM »

Bad move. Young people are a lot less likely to support an assault weapons ban than older Americans. This could be the moment that the Democrats start losing the youth vote.

*sigh*

Let me try this again...

STOP OVERREACTING TO EVERYTHING. NOBODY WILL CARE ABOUT THIS IN A WEEK, MUCH LESS IN 5 MONTHS.

easy, Icespeaf. i think you're overreacting. Grin

<runs away>
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2016, 01:16:01 AM »

Bad move. Young people are a lot less likely to support an assault weapons ban than older Americans. This could be the moment that the Democrats start losing the youth vote.

Really? Is there evidence on this or is this just your feeling? Because young people just tend to be more liberal from polling data I've looked at.
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136or142
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« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2016, 02:22:55 AM »

Bad move. Young people are a lot less likely to support an assault weapons ban than older Americans. This could be the moment that the Democrats start losing the youth vote.

Are you being sarcastic?
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Virginiá
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« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2016, 08:44:39 AM »

Bad move. Young people are a lot less likely to support an assault weapons ban than older Americans. This could be the moment that the Democrats start losing the youth vote.

Partisan support tends to go deeper than an issue like an assault weapons ban, and the erosion of support is more likely to come from an actual ban and not just a proposed ban. Another factor is that young voters are far more diverse than other older generations, and racial / social issues tend to keep them anchored to the Democratic party despite disagreements on some other policy issues.

It's going to be difficult for Democrats to ever consistently lose the youth vote if Republicans can't begin to make inroads among non-white voters, though a sharp dip in support in specific elections, from time to time, isn't unlikely. For instance, the economy caused a reversal of Obama's support among 18-20 year olds in 2012. Unfortunately for the GOP, Trump will probably help reverse that and lock in minority young voters for a generation. Not sure about young white voters. Trump sure as hell won't help the GOP with them.
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pepper11
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« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2016, 08:54:01 PM »

I support gun control. And they looked like a bunch of petulant children. what a joke
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