Labour Party (UK) Leadership Election, 2016

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Corbyn's situation instantly reminds me of Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. In a fit of panic, he sacked one third of his shadow cabinet and isn't very likely to surivive.

Of course Macmillan had a badass staches.

[Cassius]

Corbyn's situation instantly reminds me of Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. In a fit of panic, he sacked one third of his shadow cabinet and isn't very likely to surivive.

Of course Macmillan had a badass staches.

To be fair Corbyn only sacked Hilary Benn - and that seemed to be an attempt to preempt him resigning. Not sure if that makes it better of worse, probably worse.

[Blair]

This will push me to either alcoholism or being on high blood pressure tablets.

I'm hearing now Owen Smith will run- 2010 intake, from the soft left. 1000% stronger than Eagle

[Antonio the Sixth]

Can someone well-versed in Labour politics explain to me the difference between the Soft Right and the Soft Left? I think I understand the fault lines between the soft and hard left, and between the soft right and the Kendallesque Blair fanatics, but what's really the barrier between Labour left and right? Is it rooted in specific issues, or is it mostly cultural or identity-based?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I'm hearing now Owen Smith will run- 2010 intake, from the soft left. 1000% stronger than Eagle

A quick Wikipedia skim makes him look promising. Six years in Parliament isn't really enough for my liking, but it's longer than either Cameron or Miliband had before becoming leader, and four of those years have been on the frontbench.

EDIT: And he worked in radio! Bonus.

[Harry Hayfield]

I'm hearing now Owen Smith will run- 2010 intake, from the soft left. 1000% stronger than Eagle

A quick Wikipedia skim makes him look promising. Six years in Parliament isn't really enough for my liking, but it's longer than either Cameron or Miliband had before becoming leader, and four of those years have been on the frontbench. EDIT: And he worked in radio! Bonus.

David Trimble elected as UUP MP for Upper Bann 1990, became leader of the UUP 1995

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Can someone well-versed in Labour politics explain to me the difference between the Soft Right and the Soft Left? I think I understand the fault lines between the soft and hard left, and between the soft right and the Kendallesque Blair fanatics, but what's really the barrier between Labour left and right? Is it rooted in specific issues, or is it mostly cultural or identity-based?

It's very identity based and Al explains it better, but the soft left are basically those activists who voted for Foot against Hattersley, but banked Healey against the challenge by Benn. They are left aligned but concerned about unity. Most of the membership are made up of these types.

There are two branches of non-Blairite right of the party. The union traditionalists - who are 'right' in the sense they are proudly patriotic, support the bomb and often are mildly eurosceptic, but often still are enthusiastic about central planning and sceptical of privatisation. Then there are the large amount of more technocratic people who don't tend to be factional, but were supported by Brown.

The leadership contest offered us a good selection of the Right. Kendall was running in pure Blairism, a fairly masochostic move (even though she weirdly decided to foreground her most divisive stances and background stuff like German style elected boardrooms.) Cooper was running in centrist technocratic way. burnham was of the Old Right, but crossed over to try and appeal to the soft left (as Ed M did before him).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The soft left is where this battle will be one

As indeed has been the case with all leadership elections and deputy leadership elections since the membership was given a vote.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Can someone well-versed in Labour politics explain to me the difference between the Soft Right and the Soft Left? I think I understand the fault lines between the soft and hard left, and between the soft right and the Kendallesque Blair fanatics, but what's really the barrier between Labour left and right? Is it rooted in specific issues, or is it mostly cultural or identity-based?

The Hard/Soft Left distinction is rooted in the politics of the 1980s; the Soft Left were those who backed Healey against Benn (or abstained) in the Deputy election, the Hard Left were those who (duh) voted for Benn. The leading figure in the Soft Left was Neil Kinnock and he formed an alliance with the Right (which by this point was almost entirely 'workerist'; the middle class element had almost all buggered off to the SDP) in order to cement his personal control over the Party with the aim of making a Labour win in a General Election feasible again. Throughout the 1980s there was a steady drip of defections from the Hard Left to the Soft Left, but the Soft Left never really organised itself as a faction (unlike the Hard Left which was organised at Westminster in the Socialist Campaign Group and in the CLPs in the Campaign for Labour Party Democracy) and has remained more of a tendency than anything else.

And the Soft Left is where you have to start in order to understand the splits on the Right; Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were both on the Soft Left when first elected but moved rightwards in response to the political turmoil (domestic and international) of the late 80s and early 90s. The same was true of most of the other leading figures in New Labour, from Blunkett to Beckett. They came to believe that the market could be used to achieve the old socialist goals and to heal the damage to the social fabric caused by Thatcherism. Because of their background on the Soft Left they were also socially liberal and they soon came to resemble (in one of Labour's greatest historical ironies) the intellectual Right that had been driven/had driven itself out of the Party in the early 80s. Disagreements between Blair and Brown over the direction of domestic and European policy saw this group fracture into the Blairites (who are grouped around the Progress organisation these days) and the technocratic grouping around Brown. The latter has often made common cause (at least at PLP level) with elements of the Soft Left; this is the best way to understand Ed Miliband's positioning. Note that (and very unusually for Labour) these are mostly 'elite' factions; they are comprised almost entirely of people who work in politics or used to. The major part of the Labour Right these days is the same 'workerist' Right (often referred to as the 'traditional Right' or the 'Old Right') as existed back in the 1980s and as has existed since the beginning of the Cold War. We're talking people who are firmly socialist, often as keen on State planning and hostile to the market as those on the Left, and frequently active trade unionists, but who are usually pro NATO, nuclear weapons and so on, and who are primarily political pragmatists. Almost all Labour members on the Right in the CLPs are like this, at least outside London. The traditional Right has always preferred organising behind closed doors which means there isn't the same laundry list of organisations that you'll find on the Hard Left: even 'Labour First' has until recently been a vehicle to get people elected to the NEC with no other real function, although this has changed of late.

[jaichind]

Jeremy Corbyn Supported by Labour Party Members Across UK
By Joe Nerssessian
June 29 (Press Association) -- Jeremy Corbyn has been backed to continue as Labour leader by party members across the UK including those in the constituency of his rumoured challenger.
The signs of support come as research emerged revealing that eight out of 10 members who joined the party since he was elected would back him in a leadership challenge.
The study, conducted in May by Queen Mary University of London and the University of Sussex, also found 64% of members would reaffirm their support for the embattled leader.
-----------------------------
That was May.  It might have changed since. 

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Jeremy Corbyn Supported by Labour Party Members Across UK
By Joe Nerssessian
June 29 (Press Association) -- Jeremy Corbyn has been backed to continue as Labour leader by party members across the UK including those in the constituency of his rumoured challenger.
The signs of support come as research emerged revealing that eight out of 10 members who joined the party since he was elected would back him in a leadership challenge.
The study, conducted in May by Queen Mary University of London and the University of Sussex, also found 64% of members would reaffirm their support for the embattled leader.
-----------------------------
That was May.  It might have changed since.  

Blairite propaganda can probably reduce that, but the rank and file would probably reject Blairism again.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Can someone well-versed in Labour politics explain to me the difference between the Soft Right and the Soft Left? I think I understand the fault lines between the soft and hard left, and between the soft right and the Kendallesque Blair fanatics, but what's really the barrier between Labour left and right? Is it rooted in specific issues, or is it mostly cultural or identity-based?

The Hard/Soft Left distinction is rooted in the politics of the 1980s; the Soft Left were those who backed Healey against Benn (or abstained) in the Deputy election, the Hard Left were those who (duh) voted for Benn. The leading figure in the Soft Left was Neil Kinnock and he formed an alliance with the Right (which by this point was almost entirely 'workerist'; the middle class element had almost all buggered off to the SDP) in order to cement his personal control over the Party with the aim of making a Labour win in a General Election feasible again. Throughout the 1980s there was a steady drip of defections from the Hard Left to the Soft Left, but the Soft Left never really organised itself as a faction (unlike the Hard Left which was organised at Westminster in the Socialist Campaign Group and in the CLPs in the Campaign for Labour Party Democracy) and has remained more of a tendency than anything else.

And the Soft Left is where you have to start in order to understand the splits on the Right; Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were both on the Soft Left when first elected but moved rightwards in response to the political turmoil (domestic and international) of the late 80s and early 90s. The same was true of most of the other leading figures in New Labour, from Blunkett to Beckett. They came to believe that the market could be used to achieve the old socialist goals and to heal the damage to the social fabric caused by Thatcherism. Because of their background on the Soft Left they were also socially liberal and they soon came to resemble (in one of Labour's greatest historical ironies) the intellectual Right that had been driven/had driven itself out of the Party in the early 80s. Disagreements between Blair and Brown over the direction of domestic and European policy saw this group fracture into the Blairites (who are grouped around the Progress organisation these days) and the technocratic grouping around Brown. The latter has often made common cause (at least at PLP level) with elements of the Soft Left; this is the best way to understand Ed Miliband's positioning. Note that (and very unusually for Labour) these are mostly 'elite' factions; they are comprised almost entirely of people who work in politics or used to. The major part of the Labour Right these days is the same 'workerist' Right (often referred to as the 'traditional Right' or the 'Old Right') as existed back in the 1980s and as has existed since the beginning of the Cold War. We're talking people who are firmly socialist, often as keen on State planning and hostile to the market as those on the Left, and frequently active trade unionists, but who are usually pro NATO, nuclear weapons and so on, and who are primarily political pragmatists. Almost all Labour members on the Right in the CLPs are like this, at least outside London. The traditional Right has always preferred organising behind closed doors which means there isn't the same laundry list of organisations that you'll find on the Hard Left: even 'Labour First' has until recently been a vehicle to get people elected to the NEC with no other real function, although this has changed of late.

Would it be fair, at all, to say that the Soft Left was the most middle-class tendency left in the party by the end of the 1980s?

Jeremy Corbyn Supported by Labour Party Members Across UK
By Joe Nerssessian
June 29 (Press Association) -- Jeremy Corbyn has been backed to continue as Labour leader by party members across the UK including those in the constituency of his rumoured challenger.
The signs of support come as research emerged revealing that eight out of 10 members who joined the party since he was elected would back him in a leadership challenge.
The study, conducted in May by Queen Mary University of London and the University of Sussex, also found 64% of members would reaffirm their support for the embattled leader.
-----------------------------
That was May.  It might have changed since. 

Blairite propaganda can probably reduce that, but the rank and file would probably reject Blairism again.

The options are not limited to Blarities and Corbyn, thankfully.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Thanks Al and Crabcake, that's very interesting.

From that description, I'd be roughly equally fine with a Soft Left or and Old Right leader (which I guess explains why I was fond of Miliband and supported Burnham last year). I distrust technocracy too much to align with the Brown wing, but it's acceptable as well.

Honestly, at this point the British Labour might be one of the least awful left-wing parties left in Europe.

[Phony Moderate]

Pretty sure that last year's leadership election showed that the Blairites are to this era what the Socialist Campaign Group was to the Blair era. And also that the accepted challenger to Corbyn is someone who, in policy terms, is hardly to Corbyn's right.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Things you shouldn't say if you're an under fire leader:


 "Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel than our Muslim friends are for the self-styled Islamic State"

[Hnv1]

Although, i voted for Corbyn at Labour leadership election (Because of his genuine centre left values),
I've been so disappointed by his lack of charisma and leadership, he will destroy Labour at a General election.

Now, I feel it's for him to go, but my only worry, is that we will return to a Blairite(red Tory) leader. If that happens, I will never vote Labour again.

Lets see, what will the future unfold. But one thing must happen a huge PLP reselection must happen at a grassroot level by local constituents, most of them MPs are Blairites and they don't reflect the views of the majority of Labour voters.

My MP is a 'blairite', but because I'm not a raving ideologue I'm not going to deselect good MP's who've done more than Maomentum to serve the party.

You're part of a fringe of party, not the 'blairite' MP's who've won large mandates.

Why is it that for so many on the far left of the party the table seems to raise 6'' when they start talking about Blair. It's been nearly 10 years since he quit

Blair like Schröder highlighted what happened to SD after 1990, it has no concrete direction. Labour, SPD and other centre-left parties are divided with no clear agenda between social liberal and old style socialists. Blair is just a symbol of Labour (and centre-left parties in general) inability to find some clear path of unifying agenda.

As I see it Blair, Blairites, and Blairism are ghosts, not that many MPs are Blairites (most are Brownites), and Blairism is pretty much dead. But it's a useful insult to hurl at people to your right as the membership (well some of it from what I saw in London Blairism is not that unpopular as outside the metro) is a bit traumatized by it.

Neither Eagle, Watson, EdM, EdB, Cooper, Burnham and other top Labour figures of recent years were Blairites (last real Blairite challenger was DavidM). Now I always liked Brown more but to win a GE you need a Blair image, you need to sway LibDem, swing voters, and soft working class tories.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Things you shouldn't say if you're an under fire leader:


 "Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel than our Muslim friends are for the self-styled Islamic State"

What the Christ

[Phony Moderate]

Now I always liked Brown more but to win a GE you need a Blair image, you need to sway LibDem, swing voters, and soft working class tories.

Pretty sure you can delete 'LibDem' nowadays.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Things you shouldn't say if you're an under fire leader:


 "Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel than our Muslim friends are for the self-styled Islamic State"

Oh for f**k's sake.

OK, now it's REALLY time to go.

[afleitch]

Things you shouldn't say if you're an under fire leader:


 "Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel than our Muslim friends are for the self-styled Islamic State"

Oh for f**k's sake.

OK, now it's REALLY time to go.

At least he didn't go with 'Germans are for the Holocaust.' I say at least.

[jaichind]

How much of this conflict is about the unfinished resolution over Tony Blair's legacy and how to judge him as LAB leader.  I suspect a lot of it is.

[Simfan34]

If Corbyn wants to stay he needs to have this election happen as soon as possible.

[Blair]

Corbyn is getting really ridiculous, I'm started to regret ever voting for him.
We should've voted for Burnham

The notorious blairite?

[Blair]

Corbyn is getting really ridiculous, I'm started to regret ever voting for him.
We should've voted for Burnham

The notorious blairite?

Burnham was hardly a blairite,
Initially, I thought about voting for him but I liked what Corbyn was saying  

Even as someone who worked for Andy; and who voted for him Andy ran in 2010 as the most right wing candidate.

 http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/06/the-humiliation-that-turned-andy-burnham-from-blairite-to-union-man/

[MalaspinaGold]

It appears Corbyn may not have been referring to THAT Islamic State.