Labour Party (UK) Leadership Election, 2016

[Zinneke]

Didn't Jeremy Corbyn run for Parliament in three straight elections under Tony Blair's leadership? Maybe I am projecting the Canadian political system too much onto Britain (though are systems are supposedly closely related)...but in Canada if you were a backbench MP and your leader and government did something you totally disagreed with and if you thought the leader of your party was a "war criminal" - it would be a race to see what would happen first - would you be expelled from the party or would you resign to sit as an independent or to form a new party - there is no way that you could be as critical as Corbyn was of his own leader and be allowed to stay in the party and furthermore if you did stay you would be called a hypocrit for staying.

I can only based this off what I've read from Blair and particularly Livingstone's (who has the same mindset as Corbyn during these years) accounts, but basically the wing of the Labour Party that Senator Blair calls the pacifist Left (Abbott, Corbyn, Galloway, Livingstone, etc.) was still seen as an integral part of broad church Labour and they still all - despite two of them being expelled at various points of their careers - describe themselves as almost tribalistically Labour. Galloway set up Respect but refused to be called to the left of Labour and even had a pop at David Aaronovitch for being an ex-Marxist-Leninist.

Livingstone reckons that the Labour Party was hijacked in the 1990s by what he calls the ''Millbank'' tendency of what we know as the social-liberal Blairites and technocratic Brownites. Livingstone reckons they have always been a minority in the party as a whole, and that a Soft Left candidate would have won the Blair landslides.

Thus, putting this all together, Corbyn probably believes his popularity with the membership, some unions and his leadership position is all he needs to rid the Millbank tendency in the PLP. He has absolutely no interest in leaving Labour because he is more concerned about the interfactional struggle within his own party than even his own short-term electoral success. This is because he thinks whoever controls the Labour Party will eventually lead the country.

[Blair]

Well the Milibank Tendency has ruled the party effectively since 1983- despite my own rants about the hard left there's never have had any control over the party (bar for now) I mean the 'milibank' tendency- whatever that is, will always exist in some form- even if the party's intake becomes slightly more left wing ( the next leader will be anti-austerity) they'll still be drawn from the ex-SPAD crew

[Hnv1]

Didn't Jeremy Corbyn run for Parliament in three straight elections under Tony Blair's leadership? Maybe I am projecting the Canadian political system too much onto Britain (though are systems are supposedly closely related)...but in Canada if you were a backbench MP and your leader and government did something you totally disagreed with and if you thought the leader of your party was a "war criminal" - it would be a race to see what would happen first - would you be expelled from the party or would you resign to sit as an independent or to form a new party - there is no way that you could be as critical as Corbyn was of his own leader and be allowed to stay in the party and furthermore if you did stay you would be called a hypocrit for staying.

I can only based this off what I've read from Blair and particularly Livingstone's (who has the same mindset as Corbyn during these years) accounts, but basically the wing of the Labour Party that Senator Blair calls the pacifist Left (Abbott, Corbyn, Galloway, Livingstone, etc.) was still seen as an integral part of broad church Labour and they still all - despite two of them being expelled at various points of their careers - describe themselves as almost tribalistically Labour. Galloway set up Respect but refused to be called to the left of Labour and even had a pop at David Aaronovitch for being an ex-Marxist-Leninist.

Livingstone reckons that the Labour Party was hijacked in the 1990s by what he calls the ''Millbank'' tendency of what we know as the social-liberal Blairites and technocratic Brownites. Livingstone reckons they have always been a minority in the party as a whole, and that a Soft Left candidate would have won the Blair landslides.

Thus, putting this all together, Corbyn probably believes his popularity with the membership, some unions and his leadership position is all he needs to rid the Millbank tendency in the PLP. He has absolutely no interest in leaving Labour because he is more concerned about the interfactional struggle within his own party than even his own short-term electoral success. This is because he thinks whoever controls the Labour Party will eventually lead the country.

That's odd as Corbyn supporters at the rally and many of his enlisted supporters came from fringe parties to his left like the Green party, TUSC, SWP, hell even the communist party newspaper was calling to get behind Corbyn. The hard left likes to think of itself as a successor of Bevan and the like but that is far from true (it is true of the soft left), they are just far-left characters that acknowledge that the UK system doesn't really allow for a party to the left of Labour to flourish.  

[Bacon King]

two questions:

Have any of the 36 Corbyn endorsers in the last leadership election turned on him yet?

and why is Andy Burnham of all people still serving in the Shadow Cabinet?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Today is apparently the day for meetings about meetings.

[Blair]

and why is Andy Burnham of all people still serving in the Shadow Cabinet?

Because he has as much backbone as this lovely animal

[Blair]

Jokes aside he's running for Mayor of Greater Manchester, and is facing a Primary next summer. He's already lost the support of the unions who've backed a local bloke, and wants the support of the Corbynites.

As someone who worked with Andy he places 'the party' first- often when it's clearly not in anyone's interest- such as when he refused to rebel last summer against the Welfare bill which cost us about 10% of the vote.

And of the 36- about 10/15 did it to 'expand the process' and allow a 'token lefty' on the ballot. Some MP's like Neil Coyle, Sadiq Khan, Margret Beckett and others clearly regret that.

From the others who actually supported him (rather than just nominate him) a quick look that people like Sarah Champion, Imhran Hussein and others have resigned from the Shadow Cabinet

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's clear that in terms of actual support within the PLP he's at a much lower number than those that voted against the confidence motion.

To-morrow is Chilcot Day: I suspect that things will be clearer (though Christ knows in what direction) after.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Grauniad running with a story suggesting a more optimistic tone to the er... peace talks... than had been the case. Perhaps because the receding threat of a snap election takes pressure off all sides. But most rumours about how this is going to play out have turned false so...

[Хahar 🤔]

Maybe I am projecting the Canadian political system too much onto Britain

This is something that Canadians constantly do with all countries and I find it baffling.

[jaichind]

Defeated Labour Rebels Admit 'It's Finished' as Jeremy Corbyn Refuses to Resign as Leader
Wednesday, July 6, 2016 04:29 PM
by Kate McCann and Senior Political Correspondent
(Telegraph) -- Labour rebels are in retreat after admitting that Jeremy Corbyn cannot be removed and would "win easily" if a leadership election is triggered.

One senior Labour MP said: "It's finished" as it emerged that lengthy talks between union bosses and Tom Watson, the party's deputy leader, had failed to find a solution to the deadlock.

MPs have now pinned their hopes on a challenge by Angela Eagle , despite many believing that she will not beat Mr Corbyn because of his support among members.

It follows weeks of stalemate between the Labour leader's office and MPs who want to see Mr Corbyn step down without having to trigger a leadership campaign.

One senior MP told The Telegraph: "It's finished. He will win easily in a second contest if he is on the ballot, it's everything we wanted to avoid."

They added: "He is losing support of the membership by the day, there is no doubt about that, but they just sign up new members to replace them. He is Teflon in that sense."

Another Labour source admitted that Mr Corbyn has "dug his heels in" and "isn't going anywhere", adding: "It's grim."

MPs had mounted a campaign to remove the Labour leader after he sacked Hilary Benn as shadow foreign secretary following the EU referendum.

In the following week almost every shadow minister in Mr Corbyn's top team resigned and a vote of no confidence in the leader won the support of over 80 per cent of MPs who voted.

However Mr Corbyn and his allies, including John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, have refused to back down and allow a new leader to be appointed, citing the mandate he won from Labour voters in September.

A Labour MP told The Telegraph: "There are more talks planned, but when one side's red line is that Jeremy stays in post and the other side says he has to go, it is impossible to find a compromise. It's done.

"It's no good. It's possible that the PLP would consider some kind of executive role for Jeremy if he were to stand aside as leader but his team just won't consider that option, they know where the power lies."

However another said there was still hope that Ms Eagle could beat Mr Corbyn in a campaign by motivating a "groundswell" of support following the Brexit vote.

They said: "Jeremy and his team don't care about the public, they don't care about opposing this Government. Angela is the best hope now and people are prepared for that fight."

Follow the latest Telegraph News

-0- Jul/06/2016 20:29 GMT

[Babeuf]

It can't be Angela Eagle can it? Not after Chilcot. Seems like the rebels would be better off with a candidate who entered parliament after the Iraq vote.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

They said: "Jeremy and his team don't care about the public, they don't care about opposing this Government. Angela is the best hope now and people are prepared for that fight."

What in God's name does Corbyn care about? I've been wondering that for over a week now. It can't even be power for himself because he's got to know Labour can't win an election in this condition.

[jaichind]

In a strange way, given the current topic of the Iraq War,  I actually back Corbyn for now.  Even as my positions are on the Far Right and opposite of Corbyn's world view in every way, on the issue of the Iraq War I always saw eye-to-eye with Corbyn and was negative on Blair-Bush on this issue from the start.  Hope he makes it, for now.

[jaichind]

I am confused by

---
They added: "He is losing support of the membership by the day, there is no doubt about that, but they just sign up new members to replace them. He is Teflon in that sense."
---

Why cannot the anti-Corbyn just bring in their own supporters and sign them up as members so they can vote against Corbyn if it comes to a membership vote?  This argument sounds like an excuse.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

In a strange way, given the current topic of the Iraq War,  I actually back Corbyn for now.  Even as my positions are on the Far Right and opposite of Corbyn's world view in every way, on the issue of the Iraq War I always saw eye-to-eye with Corbyn and was negative on Blair-Bush on this issue from the start.  Hope he makes it, for now.

I mean, yeah, on the Iraq issue Corbyn's right (and he's arguably right on Brexit too in that 'Remain, I guess, but not really feeling it' is a much more morally and politically responsive attitude than the kind of insistent shilling for muh Europe that the rest of Labour wanted him to do), but this was a good pretext to remove him before he could do much more extensive damage to the long-term prospects and image of the British left further down the road, and I'm deeply concerned that this will entrench him enough that we'll have to wait for a truly disastrous electoral defeat to get rid of him, if even then.

[Vega]

Tangentially related, but still pertinent - I still can't believe Blair torpedoed his career, public image (nationally and abroad) by going into Iraq. I literally can't fathom it. He was so concerned about polls and winning the next election during his first term. It's mystifying.

Anyway, the entire thing about Corbyn being able to produce more backers at a never-ending rate as if they are off a conveyor belt is rather silly. I suppose he is grabbing disaffected non-voting people or members of the Green Party (I'm curious as to the latter's status in that area), and that isn't an option for the other end of the party. I suppose they could try to lore back people from UKIP, but...

[Antonio the Sixth]

OK, I've accepted the fact that Labour is completely and utterly screwed.

[Blair]

On recruiting it's worth noting that Corbyn has the entire left crowd to recruit from- Greens, Socialist Workers, ex- labour voters who left during New Labour, People not Profit, etc theres literally 20 groups that run on the basis of being more left wing that the Labour Party.

These people tend to be inspired by Corbyn, easier to reach on social media, politically active etc. Last sumemr we tried to recruit Hillsborough families to vote for Andy, and we got about 2,000 people signed up for that purpose.

From a campaign point it was impossible for people like Cooper to get people to sign up, when you're running on a rather bland centre left platform. The only chance this Summer is a 'Saving Labour' campaign where we try and recruit.

Corbyn is a Pacifist, him being right on Iraq doesn't make him qualified to be PM

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I don't think Blair thinks he lied. He just allowed his hero complex and the crowds of wowing thanks from Kosovans and Sierra Leonians get to his head - very much a tragic hero.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Would avoid reading much into a questionably sourced article in a Labour-hostile paper. This is more interesting...

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I don't think Blair thinks he lied. He just allowed his hero complex and the crowds of wowing thanks from Kosovans and Sierra Leonians get to his head - very much a tragic hero.

It was probably easy for him to believe. He was certainly out of his head at this point, and Americans played him just like they wanted.

It's sad, but doesn't make him less guilty in my eyes. Results matters.

[Blair]

Just a hunch but I feel that Owen Smith is getting played by Watson/Unite here.

Angela was suppose to declare last Thursday, then the old Brownite enforces (Bryant, and others) started briefing that Smith had enough nominations so Eagle pushed back her launch. Now Smith is taking advice from Watson, and pushing back the launch even further.

Tom Watson wants to be leader, and that could well be a condition of the Unite Agreement- JC steps down, Watson becomes leader with John Mcdonnell staying as Chancellor.

It's been to quiet for me to think that nothing is being planned by Unite

[Antonio the Sixth]

Just a hunch but I feel that Owen Smith is getting played by Watson/Unite here.

Angela was suppose to declare last Thursday, then the old Brownite enforces (Bryant, and others) started briefing that Smith had enough nominations so Eagle pushed back her launch. Now Smith is taking advice from Watson, and pushing back the launch even further.

Tom Watson wants to be leader, and that could well be a condition of the Unite Agreement- JC steps down, Watson becomes leader with John Mcdonnell staying as Chancellor.

It's been to quiet for me to think that nothing is being planned by Unite

If the sane wing of Labour keeps playing these stupid little games, Corbyn is probably safe until 2025 at least.

[Blair]

Just a hunch but I feel that Owen Smith is getting played by Watson/Unite here.

Angela was suppose to declare last Thursday, then the old Brownite enforces (Bryant, and others) started briefing that Smith had enough nominations so Eagle pushed back her launch. Now Smith is taking advice from Watson, and pushing back the launch even further.

Tom Watson wants to be leader, and that could well be a condition of the Unite Agreement- JC steps down, Watson becomes leader with John Mcdonnell staying as Chancellor.

It's been to quiet for me to think that nothing is being planned by Unite

If the sane wing of Labour keeps playing these stupid little games, Corbyn is probably safe until 2025 at least.

Oh of course- this is the first issue to unite the 'TB-GB's', and they've already started fighting over it