Labour Party (UK) Leadership Election, 2016

[politicallefty]

Why didn't Yvette Cooper run for leadership again? She seems like someone that could righted the ship, so to speak.

I disagree lastly about the need for a 'strong establishment' candidate; the only 3/4 I could think of who could run- Hillary Benn, Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper and Alan Johnson would all have lost for Iraq.

Is Iraq really that more toxic for Labour than it is for Democrats that it would derail winning leadership? That's hard to believe. Even so, none of those really have the establishment power that Hillary Clinton did running for the Democratic nomination. The only real analogy would be a popular figure that served in Blair's Cabinet that wasn't named Gordon Brown. Are they that nonexistent to the point of irrelevance?

[Slow Learner]

Why didn't Yvette Cooper run for leadership again? She seems like someone that could righted the ship, so to speak.

Since she got about 17% last time?

[joevsimp]

Come on guys, there's no need to lose your heads over this. I don't think running on a policy of "IF everything has gone to pot and Britain is a dystopian wasteland in 2020 because of Brexit THEN we should try to rejoin the EU" is going to guarantee a landslide for the tories. Smith is by no means a great candidate, but it's not like he just announced Labour should campaign in favour of murdering kittens.

Anyway this pretty sums up my view of this election:

I really Don't understand why Smith (or Tim Farron for that matter) thinks that doubling down on Europe is a good move.  Fair enough that 75% of Labour voters voted Remain, but what about the millions that they've lost to Ukip, the Tories and not voting in the GE that (according to the media narrative at least) were the bedrock of the Leave vote?

slightly off topic but I think that the various tattered parts of the Remain camp need to put the Referendum firmly behind them and the parties on the centre left need to set out how we'll protect the economy/ environment/human rights/workers' rights better and what we'll do differently from the right with the powers being repatriated, rather than just trying to convince people that they were wrong. If Scotland had voted for Independence, I doubt that any Scots Conservative, Labour or LibDem leadership contenders would be proposing that Scotland rejoins the UK after another referendum. 

[ag]

I think that the various tattered parts of the Remain camp need to put the Referendum firmly behind

, united around the LibDems into a strong pro-European party and try to hold the balance of power, making sure that any realistic UK government, be it Conservative or Labour led, gets committed to strong European integration in one way or another.

True, it is likely that re-entry into Europe will take a generation, but the goal should always be clearly stated and distancing from European institutions should be prevented. Hopefully, by mid 2040s England will be back in the EU.

[Cassius]

I think that the various tattered parts of the Remain camp need to put the Referendum firmly behind

, united around the LibDems into a strong pro-European party and try to hold the balance of power, making sure that any realistic UK government, be it Conservative or Labour led, gets committed to strong European integration in one way or another.

True, it is likely that re-entry into Europe will take a generation, but the goal should always be clearly stated and distancing from European institutions should be prevented. Hopefully, by mid 2040s England will be back in the EU.

Not enough people care that strongly about EU membership to switch on mass to the Lib Dems and give them enough support to even come close to holding the balance of power. Indeed, many of the areas in which Remain did best (London, the commuter belt, Scotland) are also the places with constituencies that, usually, one of the other parties is most strongly entrenched in (Labour, the Tories and the SNP). Whilst the Lib Dems (maybe) have an outside chance at regaining seats like Twickenham (Vince Cable's old seat) and Sutton and Cheam (both of which are next to their one remaining London constituency) Carshalton and Wallington, I can think of few other places in which such pro-EU sentiment might provide them a big enough base.

[Phony Moderate]

Not enough people care that strongly about EU membership to switch on mass to the Lib Dems and give them enough support to even come close to holding the balance of power.

Case in point: The most recent Scottish independence polls.

[Blair]

Is Iraq really that more toxic for Labour than it is for Democrats that it would derail winning leadership? That's hard to believe.

Yes. The last two people who won the leadership ran on 'Iraq was a disaster; I will not let it happen again' Iraq is a much bigger decision largely because it was undertaken by a Labour PM, and also because the democrat base doesn't equal the Labour Party one (especially as new members tend to be ones who left during Iraq)

The only real analogy would be a popular figure that served in Blair's Cabinet that wasn't named Gordon Brown.

Again, Alan Johnson. Served as Health, Business and Home Secretary. Extremely popular in Labour circles, successful author, former trade union head.

From what I've heard in the party Yvette was canvassing for support if JC wasn't on the ballot; her people have been briefing her as the 'Michael Howard' figure who'll step in only if she gets crowned. She was everyone's 2nd choice last year for a reason

[bore]

Come on guys, there's no need to lose your heads over this. I don't think running on a policy of "IF everything has gone to pot and Britain is a dystopian wasteland in 2020 because of Brexit THEN we should try to rejoin the EU" is going to guarantee a landslide for the tories. Smith is by no means a great candidate, but it's not like he just announced Labour should campaign in favour of murdering kittens.

Anyway this pretty sums up my view of this election:

I really Don't understand why Smith (or Tim Farron for that matter) thinks that doubling down on Europe is a good move.  Fair enough that 75% of Labour voters voted Remain, but what about the millions that they've lost to Ukip, the Tories and not voting in the GE that (according to the media narrative at least) were the bedrock of the Leave vote?

I think doubling down on Europe make sense for both Smith and Farron, especially when you remember that both are not in positions of strength and so have to, to some extent, gamble.

For Smith the important thing to note is that he's running for Labour leadership, not as a general election candidate, so he needs to appeal to members of the labour party, who are likely far more pro europe than labour supporters. And, just, as importantly, Corbyn is pretty blatantly a eurosceptic, so it's something, probably the one thing, that he can use to drive a wedge between Corbyn's base and Corbyn.

For Farron a victory for the Lib Dems at the moment is just making it into the news, and having a strong pro europe position did, at least, do that. And the Lib Dems have such a low base that getting a segment of the electorate behind them, even the relatively small europhile segment, is an improvement and a good thing. This stance may very well help them win in places like Cambridge, for instance.

The other thing to remember, and it must constantly be remembered, to avoid falling into hot takes about, for instance, support for independence, is that Brexit hasn't actually happened yet. Nothing has actually changed since the night of the referendum, so of course a strongly pro EU stance is unpopular now. The europhile stances of Sturgeon, Farron and Smith are, in a sense, a gamble that Brexit will happen and be a disaster (which, tbh, looks like quite a safe bet), so that they can ride in 2020 or whenever and run on a platform of "I told you so. Look what I was saying at the time."

[DC Al Fine]

If it's going to happen, it'll have to involve the Lib Dems "re-splitting" into their Liberal and SDP factions, and the SDP half becoming a safe-space for non-Corbynite Labour...

The Lib Dem factions are not "Liberal" and "SDP".

What exactly are their factions these days?

[Phony Moderate]

The europhile stances of Sturgeon, Farron and Smith are, in a sense, a gamble that Brexit will happen and be a disaster (which, tbh, looks like quite a safe bet), so that they can ride in 2020 or whenever and run on a platform of "I told you so. Look what I was saying at the time."

Such a scenario might give such politicians a boost, but at the same time it would probably also give UKIP (or whatever the main party to the right of the Tories is then) a boost.

[Phony Moderate]

If it's going to happen, it'll have to involve the Lib Dems "re-splitting" into their Liberal and SDP factions, and the SDP half becoming a safe-space for non-Corbynite Labour...

The Lib Dem factions are not "Liberal" and "SDP".

What exactly are their factions these days?

The Orange Bookers (Tory-friendly) and the social liberals (more left-leaning) basically. Farron is in the latter...despite certain issues that he has.

[YL]

If it's going to happen, it'll have to involve the Lib Dems "re-splitting" into their Liberal and SDP factions, and the SDP half becoming a safe-space for non-Corbynite Labour...

The Lib Dem factions are not "Liberal" and "SDP".

What exactly are their factions these days?

"Labour Can't Win Here. Vote Lib Dem to keep the Tories out" and "The Tories Can't Win Here. Vote Lib Dem to keep Labour out".

More seriously, what Phony Moderate said.  The point is that both sides identify as "liberals" and neither particularly derives from the SDP, whose less "liberal" figures mostly drifted away from the Lib Dems or (in the case of David Owen) never joined the merged party in the first place.

[Blair]

Even stranger than Lib Dem factions are Lib Dem voters

[Boston Bread]

Tony Blair says he wouldn’t want a left-wing Labour party to win an election:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-says-he-wouldn-t-want-a-left-wing-labour-party-to-win-an-election-10406928.html

[Hnv1]

Tony Blair says he wouldn’t want a left-wing Labour party to win an election:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-says-he-wouldn-t-want-a-left-wing-labour-party-to-win-an-election-10406928.html

That's from last year

[Boston Bread]

Tony Blair says he wouldn’t want a left-wing Labour party to win an election:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-says-he-wouldn-t-want-a-left-wing-labour-party-to-win-an-election-10406928.html

That's from last year

Ah, I guess I should know not to trust reddit to give me up to date news. Still, I'd like to get updates from our posters who know more about this race.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

So it seems that Channel 4's Dispatches programme has done a piece on Momentum to be broadcast on Monday. For those who are not aware Dispatches does investigative journalism and is particularly well know for its use of undercover reporters.

[Gary J]

If it's going to happen, it'll have to involve the Lib Dems "re-splitting" into their Liberal and SDP factions, and the SDP half becoming a safe-space for non-Corbynite Labour...

The Lib Dem factions are not "Liberal" and "SDP".

What exactly are their factions these days?

"Labour Can't Win Here. Vote Lib Dem to keep the Tories out" and "The Tories Can't Win Here. Vote Lib Dem to keep Labour out".

More seriously, what Phony Moderate said.  The point is that both sides identify as "liberals" and neither particularly derives from the SDP, whose less "liberal" figures mostly drifted away from the Lib Dems or (in the case of David Owen) never joined the merged party in the first place.

The Lib Dem approach, much as it irritates Tory and Labour activists, is sensible so long as there are only three parties that matter and the Lib Dems do not have to choose one of the two major parties. The rise of new parties has weakened the first precondition, but as we have seen from the political effect of the coalition it is the breakdown of the second precondition that is really toxic.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

If it's going to happen, it'll have to involve the Lib Dems "re-splitting" into their Liberal and SDP factions, and the SDP half becoming a safe-space for non-Corbynite Labour...

The Lib Dem factions are not "Liberal" and "SDP".

What exactly are their factions these days?

"Labour Can't Win Here. Vote Lib Dem to keep the Tories out" and "The Tories Can't Win Here. Vote Lib Dem to keep Labour out".

More seriously, what Phony Moderate said.  The point is that both sides identify as "liberals" and neither particularly derives from the SDP, whose less "liberal" figures mostly drifted away from the Lib Dems or (in the case of David Owen) never joined the merged party in the first place.

The Lib Dem approach, much as it irritates Tory and Labour activists, is sensible so long as there are only three parties that matter and the Lib Dems do not have to choose one of the two major parties. The rise of new parties has weakened the first precondition, but as we have seen from the political effect of the coalition it is the breakdown of the second precondition that is really toxic.

I don't think I'd go as so far as that they cannot choose one party, but rather that there needs to exist  clear (and I mean clear to the average citizen) policy and ideological difference between two parties. The Lib Dems would've probably preserved themselves to some extent if they refused to vote on tuition fee raises.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Would you say the UK Labour Party = US Republican Party in future troubles

[Slow Learner]

Would you say the UK Labour Party = US Republican Party in future troubles

No, because no matter how bad Trump does, the GOP will still have considerable power downballot.

[Pandaguineapig]

Would you say the UK Labour Party = US Republican Party in future troubles

No, because no matter how bad Trump does, the GOP will still have considerable power downballot.

Also based on current polls Trump has a far better chance of becoming the next president than corbyn does of becoming the next prime minister

[Lachi]

Question for the brits here from all parties, how do you think Owen Smith would do as Labour leader if he was to take over from Corbyn?

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Isn't this election over already? God damn how long does this party need to crown Corbyn leader for the second time?

No wonder Labour can't keep up with the Tories when you take into account how the two parties handle their leadership elections.

[Phony Moderate]

Isn't this election over already? God damn how long does this party need to crown Corbyn leader for the second time?

No wonder Labour can't keep up with the Tories when you take into account how the two parties handle their leadership elections.

It is pretty much over as most of the ballots will have been cast already. The result just hasn't been announced quite yet.

Still, we're still better than Canada!