Yiannopoulos, et al.--why do we even know about these people?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Inspired by the increasing amount of discussion that these young-ish alt-right goons are getting online--eclipsing, in many circles, the attention given to established rightist pundits and taste-makers--and by an incident that happened at a Bible study that I went to the other night. A man who was already on my sh**t list for thinking 'Francisco Franco was a dictator' was a significant contribution to a discussion of fascist architecture and for bragging about scamming MassHealth into paying for cosmetic surgery asked some inane question about something relating to an appearance that some of these people made on the UMass campus recently, where one of them, I think Steven Crowder (who a poster in this thread tells me is not really 'alt-right'), complained about a protest sign on which Jesus was menstruating and had breasts (or, as the man asking the inane question called them, 'boobies'). That really got me thinking: Why have we even heard of these people? Why do we know about and have opinions on them?

This isn't a 'why are they being given platforms?' question. Clearly they're being given platforms because they're already getting their views out there and being talked about, and that should be respected, so far as it goes. What I'm asking, rather, is whence the fact that anybody thinks to give them platforms? How and why have these people slipped the surly bonds of 4chan and MRA echo chambers and Daryush Valizadeh's odious website and entered offline political discourse?

The obvious answer is that this is part of a more general breakdown of the genteel liberal discourse that this country used to semi-convincingly pretend to have, which shows up on the right as (at best) the notion that resentment and fear of the other should be actively coddled rather than merely addressed and (at worst) the notion that it should be outright fanned for short-term political gain, and on the left as the ongoing replacement of traditional notions of class and exploitation with what I can only describe as 'pop critical race theory' and poorly-understood quack psychology. (I've been guilty of the quack psychology myself, and have only recently begun to work towards a place of toleration of things that really bother me.) But where has this breakdown come from?

My going theory is that it's in some way a symptom of this trend that started probably in some circles before I was born of not really allowing people to have beliefs, of the kind that can be both respected and criticized. The options, for a lot of people, at least in the realm of politics, seem to be feelings or else 'facts' that everybody else is just too stupid or evil to see ('pro-choice' becomes 'pro-abortion' to pro-life people; 'pro-life' becomes 'anti-choice' to pro-choice people; different political parties becomes a more widespread impediment to marriage than different religions; et cetera). The remaining question is why this is bearing fruit now, at the time that it is.

There's also, obviously, a really pronounced and nasty element of identity politics to it, which appeals to conventionally masculine white guys the way tumblr leftism appeals to everyone else (generalizing here, obviously!). What made characters like Archie Bunker or Al Bundy endearing (when they were endearing) was that they genuinely believed that they weren't converting their resentments into identity politics (even when they clearly were), and thus could get away with being contemptuous when other people did. The alt-right types don't have that saving grace.

[This account no longer in use.]

It's because, sadly, the alt-righters are finally breaking out of their echo chambers and moving out of their mothers' basements.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

It's because, sadly, the alt-righters are finally breaking out of their echo chambers and moving out of their mothers' basements.

What I'm wondering is what's driving that.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I'd try to answer, and maybe I"d produce a paragraph of nonsense masquerading as intellect, but I don't feel like that, so I'll just skip to the easy, cynical, probably incorrect and yet so lovingly simple: the death of the West and the decline of humanity as the race to govern this planet.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

good analysis.  as to why now, I imagine it is partly a result of how political discussion (if you can call it that) is marketed and shared on the internet in a way that further erodes any distinction with entertainment. The shock factor is a way of grabbing attention in an "information" saturated environment.


interesting that your Bible study is discussing fascist architecture.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Crowder isn't alt-right or affiliated with them in any way.  The alt-right call him a "cuck."

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

good analysis.  as to why now, I imagine it is partly a result of how political discussion (if you can call it that) is marketed and shared on the internet in a way that further erodes any distinction with entertainment. The shock factor is a way of grabbing attention in an "information" saturated environment.


interesting that your Bible study is discussing fascist architecture.

This makes sense and feeds into my overall framework. We need to nuke Facebook's servers to save our children.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

interesting that your Bible study is discussing fascist architecture.

In fairness to us, it was an off-topic conversation before the actual discussion of Acts 17 started.

Crowder isn't alt-right or affiliated with them in any way.  The alt-right call him a "cuck."

Oh, okay. He was at UMass with or around the same time as Yiannopoulos and he used to voice the Brain. That's all I know about him.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Nathan...I normally read your posts, but this is a bit long - I'll just presume it's the subject argued sensibly. But have you seen Milo's social media? Like legit. Just saw these fabulous white jeans. $549. What a dream! You know how hard it is to find something this legit?! I had to go to 5 stores! (Yes, I did precede him on this trend )



How many useless things go viral? At least this man has some tastefulness.

[This account no longer in use.]

It's because, sadly, the alt-righters are finally breaking out of their echo chambers and moving out of their mothers' basements.

What I'm wondering is what's driving that.

My guess is the rise of Trump, although it could be anything.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

The Gamersgate/Feminazi clash of a couple years ago started this and everyone jumped in.  I didn't agree with either side at the time.  Whiny kids in basements vs young women that are being brainwashed by gender studies groups.

Milo is fighting for "cultural libertarianism" aka basically the free speech we all talk about in the US when we all quote Evelyn Hall "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" and as Milo says "Sunlight is the best disinfectant." He has bad ideas (Donald Trump) but not many actually intellectually debate him or debunk him.  Those ideas can be exposed just like the failings of the 1-in-4 campus rape "statistic". The campus leftists just yell and scream incoherently and throw things like a child having a temper tantrum and demand a safe space.

Milo is a provocateur but he's also trying to all everyone to have adult conversations again.  Let racists spout racism.  Let bigots spout bigotry. Then we all know who they are. 

[Lyin' Steve]

Loony leftism on campus hit the mainstream in mid-to-late 2015.  Comedians canceling their visits, several high-profile campus rape cases exposed as frauds, and of course writing about students demanding "safe spaces" in response to conservative speakers on campus fed perfectly into the pampered lazy millennial stereotype.  Editorial writers in particular didn't like that their conservative friends were being abruptly banned from campuses or even random friends would get banned for having tweeted something once that some student was able to be offended by.  I remember there were articles in WaPo, Atlantic, WSJ, and right-wing outlets like Federalist, Weekly Standard, and especially National Review, just about every day describing one new offense or another and what it all said about society, the election, what have you.

So that was the mainstream, like the kind of source that regularly makes it to the front page of Google News or RealClearPolitics (the editorial board at RCP itself, by the way, had an article every weekend throughout June-Dec 2015 about this stuff).  But Breitbart had been running with the story for a long time.  Milo was the point man for this subject at Breitbart, and had been doing his provocative speaking tours for a while.  When the story he'd been focused on broke into the mainstream, he broke into the mainstream along with it.  Becoming an early #1 supporter of Trump was just the icing on the cake for securing his place as a social media phenomenon on the right.

[Phony Moderate]

Thing is, I don't see much difference between the alt-right and the radical feminists/SJWs. All obnoxious, all out and out awful. It's why I avoid Twitter for the most part.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I had never heard of any of these people before, and would happily have remained ignorant.

Isn't it just a product of the recent trends in the evolution of the internet, though? I mean, even Buzzfeed and Upworthy only popped up just a few years ago. It would make sense that the right-wing response would take a little longer to organize. Even then, stuff like the MRA community or Stormfront have been there for a little while.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Thing is, I don't see much difference between the alt-right and the radical feminists/SJWs.

[Phony Moderate]

Thing is, I don't see much difference between the alt-right and the radical feminists/SJWs.

Which is not to say that I have no time for actual feminists and actual social justice warriors.

[dead0man]

The only people giving him a voice on this message board are leftists.  Do a search of Yiannopoulos.  A bunch of threads, just like this one, wondering what are we going to do about these fabulously dressed homos that aren't marching to the same drum I am....>HOW DARE THEY!  mock mock mock mock

and one thread started by me, but it wasn't about him (or alt-right, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean), it was about some feminists that don't think views they don't agree with should be available.  A common trope on the left these days.



Perhaps this is an actual....ahem...."threat" to you guys on the wider internet, but here, your side is doing all the advertising.

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

Alt-right=excrement.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Hold on a second...you don't think Francisco Franco was a dictator?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Hold on a second...you don't think Francisco Franco was a dictator?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The only people giving him a voice on this message board are leftists.  Do a search of Yiannopoulos.  A bunch of threads, just like this one, wondering what are we going to do about these fabulously dressed homos that aren't marching to the same drum I am....>HOW DARE THEY!  mock mock mock mock

and one thread started by me, but it wasn't about him (or alt-right, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean), it was about some feminists that don't think views they don't agree with should be available.  A common trope on the left these days.



Perhaps this is an actual....ahem...."threat" to you guys on the wider internet, but here, your side is doing all the advertising.

I'm not concerned about what to 'do about' these people because they are pathetic and will in due course get exposed as pathetic. I'm just confused.

Again, I heard about these people in real life for the first time, which is what prompted this thread.

Hold on a second...you don't think Francisco Franco was a dictator?

I don't think that pointing out that Franco was a dictator is a useful contribution to a conversation in which people are already discussing the architecture of the Valle de los Caídos.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Hold on a second...you don't think Francisco Franco was a dictator?

I don't think that pointing out that Franco was a dictator is a useful contribution to a conversation in which people are already discussing the architecture of the Valle de los Caídos.

Just reread the sentence and somehow completely missed the second half of it.

Carry on.

[dead0man]

I'm not concerned about what to 'do about' these people because they are pathetic and will in due course get exposed as pathetic.

Perhaps.  He certainly hasn't been yet, at least that I've seen.  Every time I've seen him he's totally owned the half wit he's arguing with, but it's very likely I'm only seeing what I want to see.

To be clear, I'm not a fan of him or the "alt-right"....but I have been entertained by him (and that weird beard guy with an even stranger name) when he rips into the people most "triggered" by him.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I'm not concerned about what to 'do about' these people because they are pathetic and will in due course get exposed as pathetic.

Perhaps.  He certainly hasn't been yet, at least that I've seen.  Every time I've seen him he's totally owned the half wit he's arguing with, but it's very likely I'm only seeing what I want to see.

To be clear, I'm not a fan of him or the "alt-right"....but I have been entertained by him (and that weird beard guy with an even stranger name) when he rips into the people most "triggered" by him.

Well, those people are also pathetic. The whole sensibility that these sorts of quack-psychological tone arguments are legitimate subjects for political or cultural discussion is pathetic and my life and mental health have improved a lot since I realized that it's pathetic. I'm just sad that people who previously managed to avoid these 'debates' by not having a tumblr or not being on an MRA website or 4chan or whatever now have to encounter and in some cases develop opinions on them.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I'm not concerned about what to 'do about' these people because they are pathetic and will in due course get exposed as pathetic.

Perhaps.  He certainly hasn't been yet, at least that I've seen.  Every time I've seen him he's totally owned the half wit he's arguing with, but it's very likely I'm only seeing what I want to see.

To be clear, I'm not a fan of him or the "alt-right"....but I have been entertained by him (and that weird beard guy with an even stranger name) when he rips into the people most "triggered" by him.

Well, those people are also pathetic. The whole sensibility that these sorts of quack-psychological tone arguments are legitimate subjects for political or cultural discussion is pathetic and my life and mental health have improved a lot since I realized that it's pathetic. I'm just sad that people who previously managed to avoid these 'debates' by not having a tumblr or not being on an MRA website or 4chan or whatever now have to encounter and in some cases develop opinions on them.

     It's yet another symptom of the decline of American political discourse. Things that were once cringeworthy internet nonsense are now spilling out into the public sphere where everyone can see it.