SC: Regional Symbols Act (Statute)

[Santander]

I was a Congressional staffer - I know a thing or two about how parliaments work. There is no filibuster in this body. The Speaker, if not from the majority party, is simply a presiding officer. Again, I appeal the ruling of the Chair, and if my motion to vote on ending debate is not granted, I will move for a vote of no confidence in the Chair.

[Anna Komnene]

Santander, you are being ridiculous.  I've said repeatedly that if other members indicate they want a vote, I would do that.  I don't see how that's unreasonable.  I've seen multiple members propose alternate mottos, and I'd rather not deny them the chance to weigh in just because you happen to disagree.  This is not the House of Representatives.  We voted on a set of rules of procedure, and none of the things you are talking about are in that.

[Santander]

Those procedures have not been passed, and they also do not designate any formal authority to the Speaker. In the absence of Atlasian law or convention, we revert to American law and convention.

[Leinad]

I think "Liberty for All" is BY FAR the best idea. Unsure where dfwlibertylover stands, but he might need to change his username if he disagrees.

Let's review, what do the two of you think about the motto, in general?

I'd like a more inclusive motto that better represents the diversity of the Southern region.

Our country is founded upon individual liberty

"Liberty for All" captures both ideas in 3 words. Of course, a variant could also work, as long as it still captures the essence of this nation.


Also, maybe I'm being a curmudgeon, but am I the only one who thinks saying "Seek ye First the Kingdom of God" isn't fairly explicitly--or at least very heavily implicitly--Christian? Many people--whether they are the majority or not should be entirely irrelevant--do not believe in a god, or do not believe that the existence of a god can be determined, or even if they do, have nothing in their religion about "the Kingdom of God" (correct me if I'm wrong, but most religions probably do not use that phrase--in fact I have not heard it in non-Christian contexts).

I just feel that we're extremely mangling words to say that "Seek ye First the Kingdom of God" is religiously neutral.

[Santander]

Also, maybe I'm being a curmudgeon, but am I the only one who thinks saying "Seek ye First the Kingdom of God" isn't fairly explicitly--or at least very heavily implicitly--Christian? Many people--whether they are the majority or not should be entirely irrelevant--do not believe in a god, or do not believe that the existence of a god can be determined, or even if they do, have nothing in their religion about "the Kingdom of God" (correct me if I'm wrong, but most religions probably do not use that phrase--in fact I have not heard it in non-Christian contexts).

"Liberty for all" has no historical relevance, and does not fully reflect the founding principle of America, and by extension, Atlasia. This country was explicitly founded on the principle that our rights come from God. It is well-known that many of the Founding Fathers were atheists or non-Christians, but they found it necessary to declare that man's rights come from his creator. If government bestows liberty (which the motto "Liberty for all" would be doing), it means that government can take it away. Our rights are inalienable, and we answer only to God.

In God We Trust was adopted as the official motto of the US, not in the 18th century or the 19th century, but in 1956. Clearly, it was not only the founders who believed that our rights come from God. Many states have a Ten Commandments monument outside their State Capitol. Christian chaplains in both the House and Senate provide opening prayers and religious counselling to their members, not all of whom are Christian or even religious. Eleven territories and states either explicitly mention God or reference the Bible in their state mottos. Christmas and Easter are recognized holidays at every level of government in the United States. I could go on. All have been challenged, and all have been upheld by the Supreme Court. The Bible remains the most common source of mottos in America, even among secular organizations.

The concept of Laïcité that exists in France and Turkey does not exist in America's law, traditions, or founding documents. The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. That phrase originates from a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 regarding the First Amendment, where he told them, "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, he owes account to no other for his faith and his worship, and the Legislature should make no law with respect to the Establishment of religion or restricting the free excercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state." The Establishment Clause does not prevent the adoption of religious values, in fact it exists as part of the First Amendment to encourage religion. It prevents government from imposing a state religion upon the people, a position the Church of England held before independence and even afterwards. As such, mandatory school prayer in public schools is unconstitutional because students are compelled to attend school, and mandatory Christian prayer forces non-Christians to accept Christ, violating their religious liberty. In contrast, the opening prayers in legislative chambers is permitted, because members are not required to attend. Jews, Hindus and Muslims have all given the opening prayers in their faith's traditions to Congress.

Adopting a state motto with Biblical origins that no citizen is compelled to affirm, recite, or even display on a flag or license plate, is not even close to the imposition, establishment, or endorsement of a state religion. Christianity is woven into our customs, our language, our calendar, everything. That is no accident, that is because those are our traditions. And yes, those traditions include accepting newcomers and minorities in our society. The Declaration of Independence finishes by saying:

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If a Bible verse captures the essence of our founding ideals and promotes citizens to a higher purpose, there is nothing more American, and by extension, Atlasian, than that.

[Classic Conservative]

You know he isn't going to be willing to change the motto. Just put the bill to an up and down bill.

[Anna Komnene]

I will introduce an amendment based on Leinad's suggestion then.

Motto
6. Recognizing that Atlasia is founded upon principles that recognize that individual rights are bestowed by a sovereign God individuals rights and liberty of all people shall never be infringed, the motto of the South shall be Quaerite Prime Regnum Dei, translated to "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God" in English. "Liberty for All."

[Anna Komnene]

We will now vote on the amendment.  Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.  This will be a 24-hour vote.

[Anna Komnene]

Aye

[Santander]

Nay

[Classic Conservative]

Ms. Speaker you flat out denied the motion for a final vote without even waiting for a second. And then you started your vote on this admendment without a second. That's a violation of the rules ma'am.

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

Aye

[Terry the Fat Shark]

Nay

[Anna Komnene]

I am not denying a final vote.  I've said like 5 times that if anyone indicated that they actually support having a final vote other than just one person, that I would hold it.  However, as speaker of this body, I have a responsibility to gauge what the body wants to do, not just what one person wants to do.  I've seen that 3 legislators support different mottos, and none of us agree on each other's mottos.  There are also southern citizens that support different mottos.  The other 2 legislators haven't weighed in on the matter.  In such a situation, it would be utterly irresponsible both to the integrity of the legislative body and the region for me to hold a final vote when it's clear that we're still debating these important issues.

I admit that I may have been rash in calling a vote on the amendment, but I was sponsoring it on President Leinad's behalf, and he's also a member of the southern region.  I felt like his suggestion deserved consideration.  I also thought (perhaps wrongly) that more legislators supported the amendment.  Since the amendment is likely to be voted down, that's fine.  It's hard to figure out who supports what when people aren't very specific in their posts.  I'm trying really hard to do the right thing here.  I'm also pretty frustrated and feel like this is a game - while we're simulating a legislative body, it's supposed to be fun.  I'm certainly not having any fun dealing with this.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

In that case, I move to end debate and proceed to a final vote on the version of the bill in Post 38.

I second

[Anna Komnene]

Seeing as we have a second on a final vote, debate is over.  We will now have a final vote.  Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.  This will be a 48 hour vote.

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[Terry the Fat Shark]

AYE

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

Aye

[Santander]

Aye

[Anna Komnene]

Abstain.

[tmthforu94]

Regional senator weighing in...

Y'all are making speedy progress! I definitely think we'll have the best flag, so props to Santander. Also love the motto, though the Kansan in me is a little sour you didn't go with the sunflower.

[NOT gonna be banned soon]

Aye

[Associate Justice PiT]

     X PiT, South Governor